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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Aug 29, 2016 10:55:36 GMT -5
There is no doubt that Vader was killing it in WCW and was even a world champion. But sadly he was fired after the Orndorf incident which resulted in him joining WWE where he was basically a mid carder at best who lost most of his matches.
So my question is if Vader was never fired could he have become one of WCW's biggest stars and been on the same level as Sting and Goldberg?
The only downfall Vader could've had in WCW was the nWo. If he was anti nWo like Sting and Goldberg it surely would've worked great for him but it he joined the nWo he most likely would've become a disposable number in the group.
The backstage politics may not have worked for Vader either because in WWE Shawn Michaels bullied him and even made him cry so Hogan, Hall and Nash may have effected his spot too.
What do you guys think?
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Post by ricflair4ever on Aug 29, 2016 13:51:35 GMT -5
He may have been featured better in terms of being rotated in and out of main events more frequently than he was in WWF. But i think ,long term, he probably would have went back to Japan. The influx of guys from WWF would have given more opportunities to work some big programs, but he stood a very.good chance of being used to put guys like Hall and Nash over. Although i think there would have been some big money potential in Vader vs The Giant and Goldberg as well. Overall, i think he would have done OK, but still probably would have been outta there before the ship sank. Who knows, he may have even went to WWF later than he did,and been more successful there than he was during his actual run. Good question sir.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Aug 29, 2016 14:33:51 GMT -5
When Vader left WCW he was actually one of Hogan's bitches.
Vader had seen the light, and was on team Hogan with Savage and Sting for War Games, to face the evil group of The Dungeon of Doom!
So I honestly see Vader up and leaving once his contact expired. He would have either went to the WWE then, or went to Japan. But he would have not stayed in WCW.
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Post by BSR on Aug 30, 2016 22:47:22 GMT -5
When Vader left WCW he was actually one of Hogan's bitches. Vader had seen the light, and was on team Hogan with Savage and Sting for War Games, to face the evil group of The Dungeon of Doom! So I honestly see Vader up and leaving once his contact expired. He would have either went to the WWE then, or went to Japan. But he would have not stayed in WCW. Vader wasn't going anywhere but down once Hogan came in. |
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Aug 31, 2016 15:01:22 GMT -5
When Vader left WCW he was actually one of Hogan's bitches. Vader had seen the light, and was on team Hogan with Savage and Sting for War Games, to face the evil group of The Dungeon of Doom! So I honestly see Vader up and leaving once his contact expired. He would have either went to the WWE then, or went to Japan. But he would have not stayed in WCW. I am feeling this as well. I am sure Vader would have has a run in Japan post-WCW. The WWF didn't know what the hell to do with Vader. Vader along with the Steiner Brothers and Lex Luger fall into that category of ex-WCW talents who the WWF didn't utilize properly. To be honest, Vader looked out of place in the WWF. |
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Post by The Brain on Aug 31, 2016 16:34:06 GMT -5
Vader had an awesome run in WCW. He was U.S. Champion and World Champion but then Hogan came in and ruined everything for him. If he stayed I'd imagine he would of did nothing of note until his contract expired and he would of left.
But come to think of it, if he was around when the NWO started he would of been their enforcer or something like that knowing WCW.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Aug 31, 2016 18:57:36 GMT -5
Vader had an awesome run in WCW. He was U.S. Champion and World Champion but then Hogan came in and ruined everything for him. If he stayed I'd imagine he would of did nothing of note until his contract expired and he would of left. But come to think of it, if he was around when the NWO started he would of been their enforcer or something like that knowing WCW.Vader would've been perfect alongside Goldberg and Sting as one of the WCW guys battling the nWo. |
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Post by The Brain on Aug 31, 2016 19:10:46 GMT -5
I would of liked to seen that. Definitely would of been great tv.
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Quazimoto
Superstar
Joined on: Feb 4, 2014 12:37:37 GMT -5
Posts: 997 
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Post by Quazimoto on Aug 31, 2016 23:18:28 GMT -5
When Vader left WCW he was actually one of Hogan's bitches. Vader had seen the light, and was on team Hogan with Savage and Sting for War Games, to face the evil group of The Dungeon of Doom! So I honestly see Vader up and leaving once his contact expired. He would have either went to the WWE then, or went to Japan. But he would have not stayed in WCW. I am feeling this as well. I am sure Vader would have has a run in Japan post-WCW. The WWF didn't know what the hell to do with Vader. Vader along with the Steiner Brothers and Lex Luger fall into that category of ex-WCW talents who the WWF didn't utilize properly. To be honest, Vader looked out of place in the WWF. I disagree. Vader came into WWE with a bang. Big time. He looked like a legit monster in his first few appearance. Unfortunately, when he signed with them, he was injured and needing some time off, hence the attack on Gorilla Monsoon and subsequent suspension. More unfortunately, when he did return, he wasn't fully healed, which ultimately cut his career short. Despite that, WWE had big plans for Vader as he was supposed to win the WWE Championship from Shawn Michaels at SummerSlam in 1996. HBK, who by his own admission was a colossal arse at the time, refused to drop the belt to Vader for whatever reason (that's why Sid got into the title picture late that year, because Michaels didn't want to work with or do the job for Vader). Many people don't know, but despite his appearance, Vader is a supremely kind hearted individual and his accomplishments in the wrestling industry mean a great deal to him. Being told he was going to win the title and coming back from injury earlier than he should have in order to get into such a position in the storylines, but then finding out that Shawn had vetoed it really hurt Vader and I think he kinda lost a lot of his passion at that point. IMO, Vader would have been way more out of place in the NWO era of WCW than he ever was in WWE. Frankly, was too nice for his own good to survive in that world. If you weren't one of Hogan or Bischoff's boys, you really didn't go anywhere in WCW at that time. Had Vader not have gone to WWE, I think he would have just gone back to Japan to end his career. |
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REAL REVY
Main Eventer
1000 Posts
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Post by REAL REVY on Aug 31, 2016 23:50:28 GMT -5
Vader would have made a good US champ
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Aug 31, 2016 23:58:44 GMT -5
Vader would have made a good US champ Vader was US Champion though. He beat Hacksaw Duggan for it at Starrcade 94 and held it for like 7 or 8 months. |
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REAL REVY
Main Eventer
1000 Posts
Joined on: Feb 8, 2012 16:27:26 GMT -5
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Post by REAL REVY on Sept 1, 2016 0:00:37 GMT -5
Vader would have made a good US champ Vader was US Champion though. He beat Hacksaw Duggan for it at Starrcade 95 and held it for like 7 or 8 months. Too bad WCW lost the copyright to his name |
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Post by ricflair4ever on Sept 1, 2016 0:04:15 GMT -5
Anyone recall why or how they took the US Title off of Vader in 95? I know he wasn't beaten for it,and he sure never beat Hogan for the world title forcing him to vacate the US.....so what was the deal with that? I recall they did a tournament to crown a new US champion ,but have no recollection of the reason they took it away from Vader.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 1, 2016 0:05:08 GMT -5
Vader was US Champion though. He beat Hacksaw Duggan for it at Starrcade 95 and held it for like 7 or 8 months. Too bad WCW lost the copyright to his name Oops! I said Starrcade 95, when I meant to say 94. Yeah, the Big Van Vader thing, then down to Vader, and even in the WWE they called him a lot of the times, "The man they call Vader" so I am not sure if that was a way to protect themselves in case Japan came calling for the gimmick or name. |
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Post by The Brain on Sept 1, 2016 0:29:02 GMT -5
Anyone recall why or how they took the US Title off of Vader in 95? I know he wasn't beaten for it,and he sure never beat Hogan for the world title forcing him to vacate the US.....so what was the deal with that? I recall they did a tournament to crown a new US champion ,but have no recollection of the reason they took it away from Vader. If I remember correctly he beat up Dave Sullivan who was a huge ''hulkamaniac'' on a Saturday Night and they stripped him of the belt due to that attack. |
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Post by ricflair4ever on Sept 1, 2016 0:34:41 GMT -5
Anyone recall why or how they took the US Title off of Vader in 95? I know he wasn't beaten for it,and he sure never beat Hogan for the world title forcing him to vacate the US.....so what was the deal with that? I recall they did a tournament to crown a new US champion ,but have no recollection of the reason they took it away from Vader. If I remember correctly he beat up Dave Sullivan who was a huge ''hulkamaniac'' on a Saturday Night and they stripped him of the belt due to that attack. Oh wow thats lame. Lol. 1995 in either company was hard for me to endure. But it was a tougher pill to swallow with WCW for me, because i.always looked at them as the WWF alternative. Then suddenly they were WWF Lite ,and a bad version of that, throughout the first fullhalf of 95....i didn't tune in nearly as often. It wasnt until Nitro started that they had my attention again. I've said on here before that 95 was the closest I've ever come to checking out on wrestling. I still hung on......but it was by the skin of my teeth at that point. Thanks for answering my question. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 1, 2016 1:04:53 GMT -5
If I remember correctly he beat up Dave Sullivan who was a huge ''hulkamaniac'' on a Saturday Night and they stripped him of the belt due to that attack. Oh wow thats lame. Lol. 1995 in either company was hard for me to endure. But it was a tougher pill to swallow with WCW for me, because i.always looked at them as the WWF alternative. Then suddenly they were WWF Lite ,and a bad version of that, throughout the first fullhalf of 95....i didn't tune in nearly as often. It wasnt until Nitro started that they had my attention again. I've said on here before that 95 was the closest I've ever come to checking out on wrestling. I still hung on......but it was by the skin of my teeth at that point. Thanks for answering my question. The 1995 year for WCW was pretty bad for sure! Though it got a bit better once Nitro started up. But that WCW Uncensored 95 PPV has to be one of the worse PPV shows that WCW ever put on. I get they were trying to be edgy like ECW was at the time, but they failed miserably at it. |
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Post by ricflair4ever on Sept 1, 2016 1:28:03 GMT -5
Oh wow thats lame. Lol. 1995 in either company was hard for me to endure. But it was a tougher pill to swallow with WCW for me, because i.always looked at them as the WWF alternative. Then suddenly they were WWF Lite ,and a bad version of that, throughout the first fullhalf of 95....i didn't tune in nearly as often. It wasnt until Nitro started that they had my attention again. I've said on here before that 95 was the closest I've ever come to checking out on wrestling. I still hung on......but it was by the skin of my teeth at that point. Thanks for answering my question. The 1995 year for WCW was pretty bad for sure! Though it got a bit better once Nitro started up. But that WCW Uncensored 95 PPV has to be one of the worse PPV shows that WCW ever put on. I get they were trying to be edgy like ECW was at the time, but they failed miserably at it. Yeah that Uncensored was just a miserable event to suffer through. It was the last WCW ppv i bought until BATB 96. They really needed to hit a home run with early 95 because of how badly 94 ended. But those first couple of ppvs didn't deliver on any level other than to turn me off on their creative direction. Its really crazy to look at how great early to mid 94 was and see this watered down version a year later. To be fair, years later i checked out some of the WCW (and WWF) ppvs i didn't get from 95, and there were some good solid bouts to be found. Especially the Flair vs Savage saga, that was done well. But ,again, they didn't get any real creative juices flowing until Nitro hit. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 1, 2016 2:11:11 GMT -5
The 1995 year for WCW was pretty bad for sure! Though it got a bit better once Nitro started up. But that WCW Uncensored 95 PPV has to be one of the worse PPV shows that WCW ever put on. I get they were trying to be edgy like ECW was at the time, but they failed miserably at it. Yeah that Uncensored was just a miserable event to suffer through. It was the last WCW ppv i bought until BATB 96. They really needed to hit a home run with early 95 because of how badly 94 ended. But those first couple of ppvs didn't deliver on any level other than to turn me off on their creative direction. Its really crazy to look at how great early to mid 94 was and see this watered down version a year later. To be fair, years later i checked out some of the WCW (and WWF) ppvs i didn't get from 95, and there were some good solid bouts to be found. Especially the Flair vs Savage saga, that was done well. But ,again, they didn't get any real creative juices flowing until Nitro hit. For sure they had some good matches in 95, just the bad over takes the good. I remember Brian Pillman had some really good (and long) opening card matches on the ppvs. I wanna say against Alex Wright and Johnny B. Badd. That was in the middle of his Hollywood Blonde to Horsemen stage, where he dressed like a long lost Rock N Roll Express member. But we ended up early on having the likes of Sting and Randy Savage feud with Big Bubba Rogers and Avalanche. That wasn't good at all. And you were right about late 1994 for WCW, it was lacking. But the first half of 1994 was amazing! Steamboat vs. Flair, Steamboat vs. Austin, Nasty Boys vs. Cactus/Sullivan, Pillman vs. Regal, Flair vs. Vader, Rude vs. Sting, just a lot of good stuff in the first half of 1994. |
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Sept 1, 2016 11:50:35 GMT -5
I am feeling this as well. I am sure Vader would have has a run in Japan post-WCW. The WWF didn't know what the hell to do with Vader. Vader along with the Steiner Brothers and Lex Luger fall into that category of ex-WCW talents who the WWF didn't utilize properly. To be honest, Vader looked out of place in the WWF. I disagree. Vader came into WWE with a bang. Big time. He looked like a legit monster in his first few appearance. Unfortunately, when he signed with them, he was injured and needing some time off, hence the attack on Gorilla Monsoon and subsequent suspension. More unfortunately, when he did return, he wasn't fully healed, which ultimately cut his career short. Despite that, WWE had big plans for Vader as he was supposed to win the WWE Championship from Shawn Michaels at SummerSlam in 1996. HBK, who by his own admission was a colossal arse at the time, refused to drop the belt to Vader for whatever reason (that's why Sid got into the title picture late that year, because Michaels didn't want to work with or do the job for Vader). Many people don't know, but despite his appearance, Vader is a supremely kind hearted individual and his accomplishments in the wrestling industry mean a great deal to him. Being told he was going to win the title and coming back from injury earlier than he should have in order to get into such a position in the storylines, but then finding out that Shawn had vetoed it really hurt Vader and I think he kinda lost a lot of his passion at that point. IMO, Vader would have been way more out of place in the NWO era of WCW than he ever was in WWE. Frankly, was too nice for his own good to survive in that world. If you weren't one of Hogan or Bischoff's boys, you really didn't go anywhere in WCW at that time. Had Vader not have gone to WWE, I think he would have just gone back to Japan to end his career. Of course the WWF introduced Vader on a bang. That is expected. Hell, look at how they brought in The Big Show in 1999. Off with a bang. However, they had him job to Steve Austin right out of the gate. Back to Vader, they made him this big monster right out of the gate. They continued this streak but after SummerSlam 1996, all of the steam Vader had was lost. Soon after, Vader became a mere supporting player. After the Fall of 1997, things went downhill from there. If the WWF knew what to do with Vader, they would have put him in high-profile programs. They had a few chances to rehab him but it was too late. Guys losing passion because of their position is nothing new. CM Punk and Alberto Del Rio are more recent examples. |
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