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Post by mattyicemollie1283 on Feb 25, 2017 1:52:12 GMT -5
Hey Guys: New Member here.
Recently I have been watching Old Raws for 1999. And I must say, the build up for the WWF Title Match was horrible for Summerslam. What a cluster! Im Guessing it had to do with Austin needing some time off, but my goodness it was a mess. Just on one Raw alone you had 3 #1 contenders Matches...This day and age,,,,the internet would eat that RAW Alive.
Plus after Summerslam it seemed like the writers had no idea what to do with certain guys....maybe it was because Two writers were leaving for WCW, who knows.
But you had Mr. ASS go from the hottest heel, to a babyface again. Big Show Turns Face, Heel, Face in a matter of 4 months. Shane goes from evil owner with Triple H and Chyna, to hating Triple H in four days. The Only thing good it seemed like was the tag team scene. The rise of The Hardy's and Edge/Christian. DX reforms in what seemed like a jump the shark moment. PLUS Vince as Champion???
Plus do not get me started on how awful Lilian Garcia was in her first month. OMG no emotion whatsoever announcing the participants.
Just some thoughts from a pretty decent year in the WWF, but you could tell in the late summer/early fall the WWF was struggling to find direction for certain guys.
please share your thoughts, cant wait to discuss
Thanks
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Post by BCizzle on Feb 25, 2017 2:16:23 GMT -5
SummerSlam 99 was lame because Austin didn't want to job to Triple H, so Mankind was a one day champ (just like Macho Man was in WCW.)
Billy Gunn never seemed to shine on his own, he was at his best in tag teams.
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underjohngrohs
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Post by underjohngrohs on Feb 25, 2017 3:04:42 GMT -5
1999 was a up and down for WWF, but on the bright side, they had defeated WCW after Mick Foley put their butts in the seats, and then we had The Undertaker's Ministry of Darkness and also abducting Stephanie McMahon cause he was answering to a higher power, and then Owen Hart falling from the ceiling in Kansas City really broke the WWF for a bit, but it rebounded and then with Vince revealing himself to be the Higher Power to try to screw Austin over again, yea, slap to the face. It could've been Jake Roberts had he been sober, But no, it was Vince.
The last June was good with Austin winning the WWF Championship again over The Undertaker. But the more I thought about it, July and the Fall started to take a big dump shall we say, The split of the Corporate Ministry after Austin had taken Vince out of power, Undertaker and The Big Show forming an alliance which was okay, but it just wasn't working, I mean sure they won the Tag Team Titles twice. But with Taker injured. It just wasn't going anywhere. And then with Billy Gunn finally getting his big break after he turned on the Road Dogg and winning the 1999 King of The Ring. Where did that get him?. He's stuck in a feud with The Rock where he should've wrestled for the WWF Championship, all of this because Austin had refused to work with guys with Billy Gunn and Jeff Jarrett, so they gave the big push to Triple H. Billy didn't like that so he turned back into a face and teamed back up with the Road Dogg to win the Tag Titles again.
And then the tag team scene was amazing, But then you got Edge winning the Intercontinental Title at a live event and only for him to lose the belt for a day at Fully Loaded to Jeff Jarrett. Edge clearly could've had a singles push for a while with the belt and then team back up with Christian, don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining about Edge and Christian, because they are one of the best tag teams bar none, but Edge just should've been given a proper share with the Intercontinental Title for a bit and have him lose the belt in the middle of September, so he can team back up with Christian. I'll get to the Tag Team scene more.
Plus, Chris Jericho debuting was good, but there should've been some matches right after he debuted, I mean a match here and there at Summerslam, but we had to wait til the inaugural SMACKDOWN against Road Dogg.
Then, Jesse Ventura comes back to referee the Austin/Triple H match at Summerslam 1999 when suddenly Shawn Michaels tests Triple H after Shawn accuses him of taking Austin out with a Cinder Block, he gives his #1 Contendership spot and makes it a Triple Threat Match between Chyna, Triple H and The Undertaker. Chyna wins and is the #1 Contender, Triple H whines and complains and wants to challenge Chyna the next week and they have the match but just when Triple H tries to get his spot back. Mankind returns after his injury and costs Triple H his chance, and then wants the spot against Chyna. Mankind wins, but Triple H whines and complains to get another chance. They have their match and they pin each other and they decide to make it a Triple Threat Match at Summerslam. I mean Summerslam could've been Triple H's spot right there, but Mankind wins the belt, and the next night on RAW. Triple H's moment happens and he's the champion. But for only three weeks. Three flipping weeks. Why?, cause Vince made his return because Triple H was harassing his wife and son. I mean here you have Shane becoming a heel, being the mastermind of the whole Corporate Ministry, trying to break his sister and Test apart. But that failed, and now he defends his mother against Triple H. What was wrong with Shane?, so meanwhile Austin got Vince back to power and Vince vacates his championship to have it in a six-pack challenge at Unforgiven between Triple H, Undertaker. The Rock. Kane. Big Show and Mankind with Triple H having to beat all 5 competitors in a special match where Triple H only needed to win, he didn't have to beat them, he just had to win them all or else he would be out. He didn't survive the Chokeslam or the Casket Challenge. But did win the Inferno. Boiler Room and Bullrope Matches and then The Game winning the WWF Championship for the second time at Unforgiven, i'll get back to the whole Triple H thing later.
Then what was sickening about this Fall/Summer saga, The Big Bossman stealing Al Snow's dog Pepper and then cooking "pepper steak" to reveal that Al really ate his dog, I mean Bossman was really rough back in the 1980's beating up people with his nightstick and handcuffing them after the match. Bossman was really the toughest son of a bitch from the late part of the Hulkamania Era straight to the Attitude Era when he returned in 1998. But was Bossman's uncle Harry really a cook?. Or did Bossman really cook Pepper himself?. That's the question I can never know.
Then the whole referee debacle with the superstars beating up the entire referees and then demanding to go on strike didn't make any sense to me, I think the only referee that held out was Jimmy Korderas. So they had Harvey Whippleman and Dr. Tom Prichard fill the void.
The only thing that stood out the most was the relationship between The Rock and Mankind. Here you have them fight throughout 1998 and 1999 for the WWF Championship. I mean the wars between them was brutal, the I Quit Match at the 1999 Royal Rumble where The Rock massacred Mankind with a lot of chair shots. But At the end of Summer. They get along as Tag Team Champions although The Rock says that they would not be friends, and sure they've had ups and downs as Tag Team Champions, they lost and won the belts three times, and then the "This is Your Life" Segment, with that it was one of the best segments on Monday Night RAW bar none, As for The Rock's ex-high school girlfriend. I agree, She really cut The Rock off on second base, but frankly The Rock showed her, but the combination between Rock and Mankind was like oil and water. I mean they had their ups and downs, but when you look at the Attitude Era. They were having a lot of fun.
Plus, Jeff Jarrett leaving to go to WCW, Honestly. Jarrett was really going to leave WCW and take the Intercontinental Title with him, I mean why would you wanna take the biggest workhorse title in WCW. It is WWF's big title, and if WWF didn't have the Intercontinental Championship, then it would've been nothing, so the right thing to do was to give it to a Woman and that Woman was Chyna, the build up between Chyna and Jarrett was dumb and stupid. Jarrett's final storyline being a womanizer because he was obsessed about his ex-manager Debra showing her puppies to Jarrett's opponents distracting them so that Jarrett can get the victory, but Jarrett is now upset that Debra keeps constantly continuing to do this so he takes action. Then just as Jarrett begins to bully his way into more divas. Chyna steps up to save the day and at No Mercy, she makes history to become the Intercontinental Champion. That's an accomplishment Chyna took to the World Wrestling Federation and will still take to her grave.
Then another cruel move the Big Bossman did to the Big Show is when Big Show knew his father was eventually going to die, I wonder if that was the secret The Undertaker was going to tell the Big Show as well. So Bossman uses a phony police officer to tell The Big Show that his father passed, needless to say. Show didn't like what Bossman wanted to do, Bossman wanted to play mind games with The Big Show. Bottom line, And there's another reason why Bossman should have not made Big Show mad, Big Show's father passes away and then when they had the Funeral. Bossman had the gall to interrupt the funeral and drive the god damn casket, chain it to the cop car and drive off with it. Well, I guess you could say Bossman had it coming.
But I guess another moment was Show winning the WWF Championship. Big Show just debuted 10 months ago and yet he wins the WWF Title it just goes to show you what a difference he made. I mean getting out of the WCW hellhole and then joining up with the Corporation and having some better matches with Austin, Rock, Mankind, Taker and Kane only to have him win the WWF Championship after he was grieving the loss of his father.
Austin did take some time off with his injury though, so they definitely planned it out, so why not use the run down angle that happened at Survivor Series, well. My take on it is that run down could have happened somewhere between one of the go-home shows before Survivor Series. However, Yes. DX lured Austin in that parking lot and Rikishi was there in that parking lot to run Austin down like a dog, he hid his identity and stole The Rock's car and did not want to mention it right away until Austin recovered from neck surgery later.
But I guess to top everything off was the whole Test/Stephanie McMahon saga, Here you have Stephanie having her heart broken, what's happened in the middle of the year, her world turned upside down, The Undertaker was going to try to abduct her and try to marry her, and then she found out that Shane and Vince were pulling the strings on the whole ordeal, so she wanted to get back at them by dating Test. And eventually, Shane and Vince got back in her good graces because Test asked her to marry him. Then with Stephanie accidentally being hit by the British Bulldog at Rebellion and Stephanie then has amnesia but it doesn't last because She gets right back on her feet and still wants to marry Test, then it goes to the rest of DX trying to screw over Shane and Vince in any which way, but you have to remember, Test is still involved as well, so there's no guarantee of what they could do to Test, so just when Stephanie and Test get married. Here comes Triple H to spoil the fun and admit his guilt that he did marry Stephanie in a drive-thru wedding, I mean I think that's what started Test's downfall in 1999 and then only for Triple H and Stephanie to have the last laugh at Armageddon was not a shock because we knew Stephanie would get payback on what Vince and Shane did to her that year.
So all in all, That's how I would say about how this late summer/fall 1999 mess.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Feb 25, 2017 5:15:58 GMT -5
I loved it. You could watch the WWE every week and have no idea what was going to happen next.
Much better than the predictable crap we get today.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Feb 25, 2017 11:12:12 GMT -5
SummerSlam 99 was lame because Austin didn't want to job to Triple H, so Mankind was a one day champ (just like Macho Man was in WCW.) Billy Gunn never seemed to shine on his own, he was at his best in tag teams. I heard that the reason Foley won the title that night, was so that Jesse Ventura could raise the hand of a baby face as the new Champion. It probably would have looked weird if Jesse raised the hand of Triple H.
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Post by Nick the Quick on Feb 25, 2017 12:07:50 GMT -5
The Summerslam 1999 main event had several rumors about why it went down like it did.
Triple H said on his DVD that "the plan was for me to win the title at Summerslam, it was talked about for months."
Foley said he won because they didn't want Ventura to raise the hand of a heel.
I've never heard of Austin saying anything about it, I've heard the he didn't want to job rumor (not sure how valid that is considering he put Triple H over two months later), but it was also rumored that he was injured and the triple threat was made to protect him.
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Post by mattyicemollie1283 on Feb 25, 2017 13:54:17 GMT -5
I've heard all those rumors too....and I can see Austin being protected. Because most of the match hes not doing anything or taking bumps, Just punching. I wonder how todays internet would react to Austins moveset(punching, kicks in corner, Lou Thez, Stunner) ??
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hbchris
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Post by hbchris on Feb 25, 2017 14:09:20 GMT -5
Interesting to read these comments. I quit watching WWE after Owen Hart died until the end of the year (Jericho brought me back), so this is the one part of the last 25 years of WWE that I know nothing about.
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underjohngrohs
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Post by underjohngrohs on Feb 25, 2017 14:34:40 GMT -5
The Summerslam 1999 main event had several rumors about why it went down like it did. Triple H said on his DVD that "the plan was for me to win the title at Summerslam, it was talked about for months." Foley said he won because they didn't want Ventura to raise the hand of a heel. I've never heard of Austin saying anything about it, I've heard the he didn't want to job rumor (not sure how valid that is considering he put Triple H over two months later), but it was also rumored that he was injured and the triple threat was made to protect him. Yea but look at the 1980s and 1990s, Ventura would be a tweener commentator, sometimes he would root for the faces and for the heels because he was a heel himself, but when Savage turned face back in 1987. Ventura still became his only supporter.
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Post by Nick the Quick on Feb 25, 2017 15:23:26 GMT -5
The Summerslam 1999 main event had several rumors about why it went down like it did. Triple H said on his DVD that "the plan was for me to win the title at Summerslam, it was talked about for months." Foley said he won because they didn't want Ventura to raise the hand of a heel. I've never heard of Austin saying anything about it, I've heard the he didn't want to job rumor (not sure how valid that is considering he put Triple H over two months later), but it was also rumored that he was injured and the triple threat was made to protect him. Yea but look at the 1980s and 1990s, Ventura would be a tweener commentator, sometimes he would root for the faces and for the heels because he was a heel himself, but when Savage turned face back in 1987. Ventura still became his only supporter. Ventura was also Governor of Minnesota at the time so it would look better to have him raise the hand of a face instead of the biggest heel in the company. At least that's what I'm thinking the mindset was.
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underjohngrohs
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Post by underjohngrohs on Feb 26, 2017 1:18:46 GMT -5
Yea but look at the 1980s and 1990s, Ventura would be a tweener commentator, sometimes he would root for the faces and for the heels because he was a heel himself, but when Savage turned face back in 1987. Ventura still became his only supporter. Ventura was also Governor of Minnesota at the time so it would look better to have him raise the hand of a face instead of the biggest heel in the company. At least that's what I'm thinking the mindset was. And Jerry Lawler was running for mayor in Memphis too, he had a 11.7% vote of ballots, if he won the Mayor. Then who would've taken his spot for Jim Ross on RAW and Michael Cole on SMACKDOWN too?.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Feb 26, 2017 10:27:31 GMT -5
Ventura was also Governor of Minnesota at the time so it would look better to have him raise the hand of a face instead of the biggest heel in the company. At least that's what I'm thinking the mindset was. And Jerry Lawler was running for mayor in Memphis too, he had a 11.7% vote of ballots, if he won the Mayor. Then who would've taken his spot for Jim Ross on RAW and Michael Cole on SMACKDOWN too?. Probably Jim Cornette.
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Post by Escape The Rules on Feb 26, 2017 11:54:00 GMT -5
1999 was definitely a step down from 1998.
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Post by mikey1974 on Feb 27, 2017 19:47:21 GMT -5
This was around the time Russo got pissed off and planned to leave, citing he felt overworked and underappreciated. Actually, a whole lot of 99 felt like Russo just throwing crap at the wall. But Late Summer / Early Fall was especially atrocious. I remember Foley saying once Russo gave his notice, he wrote something like 3 months of TV for Vince, and it was largely garbage and unusable, including such gems as Rock and Mankind getting married. No, like really married, ceremony, nuptuals, honeymoon, etc.
With most of what was planned unfilmable, and no real backup plans, it took quite a few motnhs for the ship to get back on course, and new writers to find their feet.
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rob29
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Post by rob29 on Mar 13, 2017 18:03:04 GMT -5
I wasn't keen on 1999 much, to me that year was just ruined by Owen Hart's demise from the top of the rafters, and D-lo Brown paralyzing Droz for life - whenever someone mentions 1999, I don't think of great matches - because these 2 unfortunate incidents just overshadowed everything.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 0:15:46 GMT -5
1999 was definitely a step down from 1998. I agree. I think 2000 was even better than 1999. 97-2000 was a hot period in wwf, but booking wise 1999 was the weakest year of that boom period.
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Mar 19, 2017 13:21:51 GMT -5
1999 was definitely a step down from 1998. I agree. I think 2000 was even better than 1999. 97-2000 was a hot period in wwf, but booking wise 1999 was the weakest year of that boom period. Agreed 100%. Wrestling, WWF in particular, was just so damn popular in 1999 that it overshadowed the fact that the quality of the product had declined. Wrestlemania XV is one of the more forgettable entries in the event's long history. I turned 12 in '99 so I ate it all up at the time. Looking back though, the angles were all over the place with lots of chaotic booking. The creative strides made dating back to 1997 to be an edgier product were wearing thin and they started to rely way too much on the raunchy/sleazy storylines. Even the Austin vs McMahon stuff was getting old. Owen passing cast a dark shadow over that year in wrestling for me as well. I'll take 1997, 1998, 2000 and 2002 WWF/WWE over 1999 all day. And again, this is coming from someone who grew up and absolutely loved the product at the time. Some great things did happen, but in hindsight 1999 just hasn't aged well.
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Post by JokerFC on Mar 20, 2017 6:29:57 GMT -5
After Fully Loaded 1999 in July? WWF knew Austin was on borrowed time.....He was in bits after his encounter with the UT and a fall taken on the ramp. His condition got worse in August and by the time of Summerslam the decision was made to add Foley for 3 reasons.
1) Austin was not sure he could work a one on one match with HHH.....this info was out there in late July. This turned out to be true and he did need time off to do a mini rehab. If anyone notices you can see Austin barely wrestles between Summerslam and his departure at SSeries(when he had to tell Vince he "I need to go").....his performance was also muted at Summerslam due to numbness in his arms the day of the show. It was that bad they considered running a backstage attack angle.....just look at the match.... he isn't at the races at all. Take particular note of his feet movement when throwing punches.
2) Ventura wanted to be the enforcer of "truth, justice and the American way" in the match and raise the hand of a good guy after foiling the heel.....For some reason Vince was that desperate to have Jesse involved he gave him full creative licence.....
3) If Foley won & HHH beat him on Raw it allowed for Austins rematch to have some punch to it because HHH never beat him. This succeeded as we seen and HHH got to beat Austin at No Mercy(I think)
The old story of Austin "not wanting to job" to HHH is utter bullsh*t. When Vince was choosing between HHH, Gunn & Jarrett for the new "top heel"/Austins next opponent in April 99? Austin fully endorsed HHH. He did torpedo working with Jarrett because of their heat dating back to WCCW/USWA tho.......Russo still hates him for that.
This must be my 50th time explaining this in here now....LOL. The above is based on accounts from Prichard, Russo, Ferrera, Foley & stars there at the time. However....HHH does seem to perpetrate the myth that he doesn't know what was happening....whereas Foley says he was the first to know and of course we all know that's the case.
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rob29
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Post by rob29 on Mar 21, 2017 15:15:53 GMT -5
1999 was my last favourite year in wrestling.
everything from 2000 onwards became it a bit sucky in my opinion, that's when WWE started up the whole commissioner thing with Mick Foley, don't get me wrong I have nothing against Mick, but I hate storylines involving general managers and commissioners at each others throats - and Steve Austin desperately trying to find out who ran over him, was getting a bit silly too.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Mar 21, 2017 16:49:03 GMT -5
1999 is the most underrated year in WWE. In 1998 time was frozen because it was the same thing every week. Austin and McMahon, DX, Kane and Taker etc. The company only started to change when Rock won the belt late that year.
In 1999 however things happened, new guys debut, and Austin got injured which cleared the path for other guys to shine in his place so IMO 1999 was the founding year for the future.
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