underjohngrohs
Main Eventer
"Do I Have Everybody's Attention Now?"
Joined on: May 19, 2012 17:48:25 GMT -5
Posts: 2,959
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Post by underjohngrohs on Mar 31, 2017 1:25:37 GMT -5
After WrestleMania 20, Brock left to go pursue a NFL Career, but my question to everyone is if Brock would have stayed, how would have he been booked differently in 2004 to 2005?.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Mar 31, 2017 4:50:17 GMT -5
I imagine we would have not seen Cena rise to the prominence to which he did, and as the fans were really behind Cena at the time, I imagine this would have translated into the kind of heat Cena started to get in 2006 being on Brock instead.
I also imagine JBL would never have been put in the main event scene or become the champion as it's well documented that Vince only put him there because SmackDown! had no star power once Brock left. So the main event of WM21 would likely be Brock vs Cena for the title after Brock would have probably taken it back from Eddie when JBL did.
It's also interesting to imagine what would have happened with ECW's reintroduction. Would he have been part of the crusade against it in 2005? Would he have been one of Paul Heyman's draft picks in 2006? If so, would Kurt Angle have left had he been allowed to stay in the top spot on SmackDown! with Undertaker and Cena while Heyman built the ECW brand around Lesnar and Big Show? Would Lashley have been given the failed push on the ECW brand if Lesnar was already there? Would Punk have become the face of the brand like he did? Had Punk not been given the chance to shine on ECW would he have been released before making it to SmackDown! or Raw? If Lesnar hadn't left, would we have seen guys like Danielson and Punk become the world champions?
Also, Brock leaving after they put the rocket up his arse is the reason for all the 50/50 booking we saw ever since he left, so they would probably have built more stars around him during that time with guys like John Morrison, Shelton Benjamin, Ryback etc not having cold water thrown on them by management to keep them from being too important. It also led to them re-addressing their approach to sourcing talent by playing it safe and bringing in reliable people from other organisations, guys like Mistico, Alberto, Hideo, Balor, Zayn, Owens all came as a result of a redirection in their scouting process, which started after Brock left because they invested too heavily in the one standout of the class of developmental talent they had. So, had Brock stuck around I imagine the approach to bringing in Indy guys and NXT as a whole would have taken a lot longer to come about.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Mar 31, 2017 4:54:49 GMT -5
Also, had Brock never left and come back, the current "part timer" deals wouldn't exist.
He started them, and only he could do it being the box office attraction that he was following his UFC run.
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Post by Nick the Quick on Mar 31, 2017 9:15:29 GMT -5
Before he left, the rumor was he was going to fued with The Undertaker again, this time putting him over, and the supposed original main event for WM 21 was Lesnar vs Triple H which probably meant a move to Raw.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 30, 2024 0:33:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 9:59:59 GMT -5
I planned this out awhile ago, so it's not very good, but here's how I would've done it:
At WrestleMania XX, Brock defeats Goldberg, and they both leave WWE. However, in this reality - Brock has quietly re-signed with the company to stay on another year, and is just taking time off. We then move on to the 2004 Draft, where Triple H is drafted to SmackDown - however, in this reality - he actually switches brands and feuds with Eddie over the WWE title (and actually puts HIM over in the feud) instead of Eddie being forced to drop the title to God-awful JBL.
Back on RAW, Chris Benoit is World champion and finishes up his feud with Shawn Michaels by defeating him at Backlash. The next night on RAW, Eric Bischoff, who is obsessed with getting the title off of Benoit - reveals Benoit's opponent for Bad Blood. Benoit looks up at the stage, and Lesnar jumps over the barricade whilst his back is turned. Lesnar gets in the ring and destroys Benoit, leaving him a bloody mess in the ring. Eventually, at Bad Blood itself, Lesnar defeats Benoit for the World Heavyweight championship.
He holds it until WrestleMania 21, where he drops the title to the winner of the 2005 Royal Rumble match - who, in this reality, is John Cena (who switches brands to challenge his former rival one last time) After which, Lesnar leaves WWE and Cena is firmly in place as the new face of the company. The rivalry is later revisited when Lesnar returns to WWE in 2012.
Like I said - it's not great, but that's what I would've done.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Apr 3, 2017 13:30:05 GMT -5
I imagine we would have not seen Cena rise to the prominence to which he did, and as the fans were really behind Cena at the time, I imagine this would have translated into the kind of heat Cena started to get in 2006 being on Brock instead. I also imagine JBL would never have been put in the main event scene or become the champion as it's well documented that Vince only put him there because SmackDown! had no star power once Brock left. So the main event of WM21 would likely be Brock vs Cena for the title after Brock would have probably taken it back from Eddie when JBL did. It's also interesting to imagine what would have happened with ECW's reintroduction. Would he have been part of the crusade against it in 2005? Would he have been one of Paul Heyman's draft picks in 2006? If so, would Kurt Angle have left had he been allowed to stay in the top spot on SmackDown! with Undertaker and Cena while Heyman built the ECW brand around Lesnar and Big Show? Would Lashley have been given the failed push on the ECW brand if Lesnar was already there? Would Punk have become the face of the brand like he did? Had Punk not been given the chance to shine on ECW would he have been released before making it to SmackDown! or Raw? If Lesnar hadn't left, would we have seen guys like Danielson and Punk become the world champions? Also, Brock leaving after they put the rocket up his arse is the reason for all the 50/50 booking we saw ever since he left, so they would probably have built more stars around him during that time with guys like John Morrison, Shelton Benjamin, Ryback etc not having cold water thrown on them by management to keep them from being too important. It also led to them re-addressing their approach to sourcing talent by playing it safe and bringing in reliable people from other organisations, guys like Mistico, Alberto, Hideo, Balor, Zayn, Owens all came as a result of a redirection in their scouting process, which started after Brock left because they invested too heavily in the one standout of the class of developmental talent they had. So, had Brock stuck around I imagine the approach to bringing in Indy guys and NXT as a whole would have taken a lot longer to come about. Batista would've been effected not Cena.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Apr 3, 2017 14:56:52 GMT -5
I imagine we would have not seen Cena rise to the prominence to which he did, and as the fans were really behind Cena at the time, I imagine this would have translated into the kind of heat Cena started to get in 2006 being on Brock instead. I also imagine JBL would never have been put in the main event scene or become the champion as it's well documented that Vince only put him there because SmackDown! had no star power once Brock left. So the main event of WM21 would likely be Brock vs Cena for the title after Brock would have probably taken it back from Eddie when JBL did. It's also interesting to imagine what would have happened with ECW's reintroduction. Would he have been part of the crusade against it in 2005? Would he have been one of Paul Heyman's draft picks in 2006? If so, would Kurt Angle have left had he been allowed to stay in the top spot on SmackDown! with Undertaker and Cena while Heyman built the ECW brand around Lesnar and Big Show? Would Lashley have been given the failed push on the ECW brand if Lesnar was already there? Would Punk have become the face of the brand like he did? Had Punk not been given the chance to shine on ECW would he have been released before making it to SmackDown! or Raw? If Lesnar hadn't left, would we have seen guys like Danielson and Punk become the world champions? Also, Brock leaving after they put the rocket up his arse is the reason for all the 50/50 booking we saw ever since he left, so they would probably have built more stars around him during that time with guys like John Morrison, Shelton Benjamin, Ryback etc not having cold water thrown on them by management to keep them from being too important. It also led to them re-addressing their approach to sourcing talent by playing it safe and bringing in reliable people from other organisations, guys like Mistico, Alberto, Hideo, Balor, Zayn, Owens all came as a result of a redirection in their scouting process, which started after Brock left because they invested too heavily in the one standout of the class of developmental talent they had. So, had Brock stuck around I imagine the approach to bringing in Indy guys and NXT as a whole would have taken a lot longer to come about. Batista would've been effected not Cena. If you say so. I remember being at a house show in 2003 and watching Brock Lesnar treat John Cena like he was Kofi Kingston.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Apr 3, 2017 16:10:12 GMT -5
Batista would've been effected not Cena. If you say so. I remember being at a house show in 2003 and watching Brock Lesnar treat John Cena like he was Kofi Kingston. Cena was popular with the kids and was on a rise from WM 20 so his drawing power alone would've shot him to the top. Batista however was too similar to Lesnar and fans would've classed him as a poor version of him.
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
Posts: 4,545
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Apr 3, 2017 18:38:45 GMT -5
I doubt Eddie would have even been champion.
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Apr 4, 2017 10:43:25 GMT -5
I imagine we would have not seen Cena rise to the prominence to which he did, and as the fans were really behind Cena at the time, I imagine this would have translated into the kind of heat Cena started to get in 2006 being on Brock instead. I also imagine JBL would never have been put in the main event scene or become the champion as it's well documented that Vince only put him there because SmackDown! had no star power once Brock left. So the main event of WM21 would likely be Brock vs Cena for the title after Brock would have probably taken it back from Eddie when JBL did. It's also interesting to imagine what would have happened with ECW's reintroduction. Would he have been part of the crusade against it in 2005? Would he have been one of Paul Heyman's draft picks in 2006? If so, would Kurt Angle have left had he been allowed to stay in the top spot on SmackDown! with Undertaker and Cena while Heyman built the ECW brand around Lesnar and Big Show? Would Lashley have been given the failed push on the ECW brand if Lesnar was already there? Would Punk have become the face of the brand like he did? Had Punk not been given the chance to shine on ECW would he have been released before making it to SmackDown! or Raw? If Lesnar hadn't left, would we have seen guys like Danielson and Punk become the world champions? Also, Brock leaving after they put the rocket up his arse is the reason for all the 50/50 booking we saw ever since he left, so they would probably have built more stars around him during that time with guys like John Morrison, Shelton Benjamin, Ryback etc not having cold water thrown on them by management to keep them from being too important. It also led to them re-addressing their approach to sourcing talent by playing it safe and bringing in reliable people from other organisations, guys like Mistico, Alberto, Hideo, Balor, Zayn, Owens all came as a result of a redirection in their scouting process, which started after Brock left because they invested too heavily in the one standout of the class of developmental talent they had. So, had Brock stuck around I imagine the approach to bringing in Indy guys and NXT as a whole would have taken a lot longer to come about. Batista would've been effected not Cena. John Cena,Batista, and Randy Orton were affected big time when Brock Lesnar left. Once Lesnar left, Vince McMahon probably said, oh ****, my golden boy just left me. Let me finally heat up Batista, Randy Orton, and John Cena. If you can see, Cena's ascension was a bit slow but steady when Lesnar was there. When Lesnar left, the gears were in high gear for Batista, Cena, and Orton. I like to consider Lesnar's 2004 departure causing a wrestling earthquake. We are still feeling the aftershocks 13 years later.
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Post by JokerFC on Apr 5, 2017 17:52:35 GMT -5
Couple of things to be noted......
Eddie Guerrero was NOT forced to drop the WWE Title to JBL. Eddie absolutely crumbled under the pressure of SD!s ratings going into decline and he practically begged Vince to take the strap from him. There are many who have confirmed this story. JBLs character was simply a tool to get Eddies character more sympathy and someone he could beat the sh*te out of and be wildy cheered for. This character was still scheduled to be created whether Lesnar stayed or not.
Lesnar was 100% scheduled to feud with & put over the newly returned Deadman. It was to be a long program that would continue on & off.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Apr 5, 2017 18:21:31 GMT -5
Couple of things to be noted...... Eddie Guerrero was NOT forced to drop the WWE Title to JBL. Eddie absolutely crumbled under the pressure of SD!s ratings going into decline and he practically begged Vince to take the strap from him. There are many who have confirmed this story. JBLs character was simply a tool to get Eddies character more sympathy and someone he could beat the sh*te out of and be wildy cheered for. This character was still scheduled to be created whether Lesnar stayed or not. Lesnar was 100% scheduled to feud with & put over the newly returned Deadman. It was to be a long program that would continue on & off. TBH Lesnar was not the WWE in 2004. He was one of their biggest stars but the entire company didn't revolve around him and while he would be doing his own feuds other guys like JBL and Cena would've been doing their own stuff aswell so it's ridiculous to believe that 1 guy's presence would prevent so many stars from reaching the main event. As I said the only guy who could've been effected was Batista and that's mainly because he was too similar to Lesnar.
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 8, 2017 7:29:03 GMT -5
It's been said that Brock was to put over Taker and eventually move to Raw where he'd feud with HHH. When Brock left, Booker T was put in his place instead to put over Taker.
Batista is likely the one who suffers, while Orton gets more time to developed instead of the forced title run and crappy face turn.
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Post by tg11 on Apr 8, 2017 13:14:55 GMT -5
If Brock had stayed I think it would have been interesting to see Brock end up on RAW then he would have ended up drafted to RAW and if that happened he would have been put in programs with Benoit, Triple H, HBK, Kane, Jericho, etc. but Brock as a babyface on RAW he would have feuded with Evolution for sure but as a heel Brock I think he would have been thrust right into the World Heavyweight Championship scene which means that Lesnar probably would have been the one to dethrone Benoit as champion and not Orton
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underjohngrohs
Main Eventer
"Do I Have Everybody's Attention Now?"
Joined on: May 19, 2012 17:48:25 GMT -5
Posts: 2,959
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Post by underjohngrohs on Apr 9, 2017 18:09:33 GMT -5
Yea, I think the thing is between Lesnar vs Benoit never really got resolved because of Benoit going to RAW and Paul Heyman saying that Benoit was never allowed a WWE Championship Match. Think about this for a second, Judgment Day. Brock loses to Undertaker and leaves SMACKDOWN to take time off, then returns at Bad Blood to attack Triple H and Shawn Michaels after their Hell in A Cell Match and demands a World Title Match. Bischoff gives Brock his title match at Summerslam. I would keep Benoit going over Triple H and have Brock vs Benoit at Summerslam. This would be where Brock just massacres Benoit, Benoit will get in a little bit of moves in, but after 3 or 10 German Suplexes and a F5. That would be it for Benoit's reign as World Champion. Imagine Brock holding the World Title til WrestleMania 21 until he loses it to a babyface Triple H.
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Post by tg11 on Apr 9, 2017 21:45:01 GMT -5
There is only one problem with all of that Triple H at the time was a heel in fact he was the top heel in WWE at that time and not to mention he saddled himself with Flair, Orton and Batista in Evolution so Lesnar if he had stayed he would have feuded with Evolution all 4 members that being HHH, Orton, Batista and Flair
But how I would do it:
Brock being a heel on RAW but he would be the kind of heel that you can't control...in the sense that he does what he wants when he wants to whoever he wants
And Lesnar would of course want the World Heavyweight Championship and he would get his title match at SummerSlam 2004 against Benoit and he would win the title becoming World Heavyweight Champion
Triple H of course wants the title back too so which sets course for a heel vs heel feud with him and Brock...HHH would enlist Flair, Orton and Batista to try to take out Brock but Brock eventually takes out Evolution one by one...one week takes out Orton and then takes out Batista and then takes out Flair so HHH has no back up and has to go it alone
Lesnar would then beat HHH at WWE Unforgiven even with Triple H having Evolution in his back pocket and using a sledgehammer he still can't get the job done against Brock; Brock would retain
Lesnar then would have a title match at Survivor Series 2004 against Shawn Michaels and he would beat Shawn; New Year's Revolution Brock would have been in the Elimination Chamber Match where he would defend against Jericho, HHH, Edge, Batista and Orton with HBK as Special Guest Referee where Brock would retain by eliminating Batista last; cue Royal Rumble 2005 Lesnar would defend his title against Kane and he would beat Kane cue the Royal Rumble Match where Cena would win it; Cena being a Smackdown guy at the time wins it by last eliminating either Orton or Batista to win it
Which sets up Cena's Mania decision; Cena jumps brands over to RAW to face Brock for the WHC
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Post by mikey1974 on Apr 19, 2017 13:47:05 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but didn't Heyman say years ago that they planned to turn Brock into a gay character?
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 30, 2024 0:33:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2017 17:40:39 GMT -5
Couple of things to be noted...... Eddie Guerrero was NOT forced to drop the WWE Title to JBL. Eddie absolutely crumbled under the pressure of SD!s ratings going into decline and he practically begged Vince to take the strap from him. There are many who have confirmed this story. JBLs character was simply a tool to get Eddies character more sympathy and someone he could beat the sh*te out of and be wildy cheered for. This character was still scheduled to be created whether Lesnar stayed or not. Lesnar was 100% scheduled to feud with & put over the newly returned Deadman. It was to be a long program that would continue on & off. TBH Lesnar was not the WWE in 2004. He was one of their biggest stars but the entire company didn't revolve around him and while he would be doing his own feuds other guys like JBL and Cena would've been doing their own stuff aswell so it's ridiculous to believe that 1 guy's presence would prevent so many stars from reaching the main event. As I said the only guy who could've been effected was Batista and that's mainly because he was too similar to Lesnar. JBL has gone on record saying that he only got the big heel push because Lesnar left: whatculture.com/wwe/10-most-notorious-jbl-urban-legends?page=2In addition, JBL also said that nobody wanted him to main event and that Eddie had "to go to bat for him". If they planned to give Bradshaw a big push all along, then JBL would have debuted in 2003 and not 2 weeks after Lesnar left. There was NO sign of JBL existing when Lesnar was around. I've also heard that Lesnar was scheduled to feud with the undertaker after WM20. However, that was BEFORE Kurt Angle and Big Show got hurt. Even then, I've also heard that Wrestlemania 21 was supposed to be Lesnar vs HHH for the WWE Championship: That explains this At the end of the day, Lesnar leaving forced the WWE to change their plans. That change in plans included making Cena the new "The Guy" by 2005.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jul 18, 2017 18:06:49 GMT -5
TBH Lesnar was not the WWE in 2004. He was one of their biggest stars but the entire company didn't revolve around him and while he would be doing his own feuds other guys like JBL and Cena would've been doing their own stuff aswell so it's ridiculous to believe that 1 guy's presence would prevent so many stars from reaching the main event. As I said the only guy who could've been effected was Batista and that's mainly because he was too similar to Lesnar. JBL has gone on record saying that he only got the big heel push because Lesnar left: whatculture.com/wwe/10-most-notorious-jbl-urban-legends?page=2In addition, JBL also said that nobody wanted him to main event and that Eddie had "to go to bat for him". If they planned to give Bradshaw a big push all along, then JBL would have debuted in 2003 and not 2 weeks after Lesnar left. There was NO sign of JBL existing when Lesnar was around. I've also heard that Lesnar was scheduled to feud with the undertaker after WM20. However, that was BEFORE Kurt Angle and Big Show got hurt. Even then, I've also heard that Wrestlemania 21 was supposed to be Lesnar vs HHH for the WWE Championship: That explains this At the end of the day, Lesnar leaving forced the WWE to change their plans. That change in plans included making Cena the new "The Guy" by 2005.Would kids have invested in Lesnar like they did with Cena? Also I can't imagine him overtaking Cena with merchandise sales either.
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Post by PJ on Jul 19, 2017 13:17:50 GMT -5
This had to be at least three pages back. Please don't bump posts that aren't on the first page anymore.
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