TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Nov 1, 2017 17:57:39 GMT -5
I know the agreement was that if Flair was ever used as anything other than a main eventer, he was free to leave. That part I get. I just don't understand how Vince rationalized letting him go.
In late 1992, the company wasn't exactly doing all that well. The steroid allegations, huge names leaving the company and an overall decline in the popularity of pro wrestling put the WWF in a vulnerable spot. Getting younger and more athletic made sense, but with such a thin roster seriously lacking in main event heels how was Flair not a prized asset for Vince? Just because he lost the belt doesn't mean he can't be featured in big money feuds and Flair just doesn't come off as that kind of a selfish performer given all the garbage thrown on him while he was in WCW.
Do you think Flair just wanted to go back to WCW? Was it the money? I just don't buy Vince choosing to demote one of his only bankable heels then happily holding the door open for him on the way out. Doesn't make sense. Those were some lean years for the WWF and I know they could have greatly benfitted from Flair being around.
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Post by Glorydaysofwrestling on Nov 1, 2017 21:52:09 GMT -5
I remember reading that Vince didn’t have plans for Flair, so Flair left. Seemed like a case of both Vince being dumb and not using Flair and Flair wanting to go home.
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Post by The Brain on Nov 1, 2017 22:33:45 GMT -5
I remember reading that Vince didn’t have plans for Flair, so Flair left. Seemed like a case of both Vince being dumb and not using Flair and Flair wanting to go home. I remember reading this as well. I gotta think WCW gave him one hell of an offer to come back. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 1, 2017 23:52:09 GMT -5
Honestly... I think it comes down to that a lot of those top WCW guys just couldn't cut it with the WWE in the late 80s/early 90s.
I heard from in shoots from Arn Anderson, Ric Flair, Tony Schiavone, Barry Windham, and others that wish they would have stayed with the WWE then, but they always went back to WCW. I honestly think that a lot of them wanted to be the big fish in the small pond more so than being in the WWE back then.
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Post by Artie Kendall on Nov 3, 2017 9:02:07 GMT -5
According to Flair himself, he had an arrangement with McMahon that if he ever stopped using Flair as a top level main event guy, that he would give Flair the heads up about it and a chance to leave the WWF. That is the short answer. Flair wasn't going to be used anymore as a top guy because Vince McMahon was going to go with younger stars. Bill Watts had been calling Flair about going back to WCW for a while. I also want to say that Flair would have been part of the booking in WCW, which he had no control of in WWF.
Something that is interesting about this time is that Jim Ross in the summer of 92 had started floating rumors of Flair going back to WCW on his 900 line. The WWF decided to put the title back on Flair almost the same time. Around this time Warrior was lined up for another run with the title. So Flair gets the title from Savage but drops the title to Hart because they want another baby face champion and with Warrior gone, Hart was the one to get it. So if you think about it, if Warrior didn't go all "Warrior" and the WWF went with the original plan of having Warrior win the title, it probably would have been a Warrior-Flair program going into 93 and who knows if Flair goes back to WCW when he does. He would have eventually but it would have maybe been delayed.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 3, 2017 13:18:18 GMT -5
I do remember at the September Clash of the Champions 20th Anniversary show that Ric Flair's name was mentioned a lot and they showed a lot of videos and pictures of him. Which at the time I thought was weird with Flair being in the WWE still, and plus being the WWE Champion then.
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marklud
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Post by marklud on Nov 4, 2017 1:52:33 GMT -5
According to Flair himself, he had an arrangement with McMahon that if he ever stopped using Flair as a top level main event guy, that he would give Flair the heads up about it and a chance to leave the WWF. That is the short answer. Flair wasn't going to be used anymore as a top guy because Vince McMahon was going to go with younger stars. Bill Watts had been calling Flair about going back to WCW for a while. I also want to say that Flair would have been part of the booking in WCW, which he had no control of in WWF. Something that is interesting about this time is that Jim Ross in the summer of 92 had started floating rumors of Flair going back to WCW on his 900 line. The WWF decided to put the title back on Flair almost the same time. Around this time Warrior was lined up for another run with the title. So Flair gets the title from Savage but drops the title to Hart because they want another baby face champion and with Warrior gone, Hart was the one to get it. So if you think about it, if Warrior didn't go all "Warrior" and the WWF went with the original plan of having Warrior win the title, it probably would have been a Warrior-Flair program going into 93 and who knows if Flair goes back to WCW when he does. He would have eventually but it would have maybe been delayed. I've always heard this first paragraph to be the reason. Vince was all about going with the youth movement in '93, hence the dramatic changes from '92 (arguably the end of the golden era) to '93 (beginning of the new generation). He and Flair had the agreement that if Ric wasn't going to be in the main event he could go back to WCW and Vince was ready to go with what he felt was a fresher, younger direction. (I still think any company would and should find a way to keep somebody like Ric Flair around no matter what, but '93 was a weird time -- even if I'm particularly fond of the year because it's when I got super into wrestling. And knowing how plans always change, surely Ric would be back in the main event eventually. Oh well.) |
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Post by ricflair4ever on Nov 4, 2017 5:12:38 GMT -5
Keep in mind, that during this era, it was pretty rare for a guy, especially a heel, to be moved back into a top spot after dropping the strap. Flair was the first ever two time heel WWF champion then. So, he knew that his time at or near the top of the card was unlikely to return. Even on the babyface side of things, Hogan, Savage and Warrior were the only exceptions to that. And even then, Hogan and Savage were the only ones to get more than one run with the gold. I'm sure Vince would have used Flair if he wanted to stick around, but it would have been just to put others over. Ric probably knew he ran the risk of damaging his credibility and potential drawing power if he stayed,and wisely jumped back to WCW. I always kind of assumed he would have been Backlunds WM9 opponent had he remained there, and probably would have done the job in that match to build Bob. Who,in turn, probably wouldn't have been used any differently in 93 after that match anyway.
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Post by Artie Kendall on Nov 4, 2017 10:26:34 GMT -5
I do remember at the September Clash of the Champions 20th Anniversary show that Ric Flair's name was mentioned a lot and they showed a lot of videos and pictures of him. Which at the time I thought was weird with Flair being in the WWE still, and plus being the WWE Champion then. Another rumor around this time was that WCW and WWF were involved in a "trade" to send Flair back and for WCW to overlook the No-Compete clause of Lex Luger. So the idea was to build Flair back up because Watts was convinced they were going to get Flair back. |
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robbutler01
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Post by robbutler01 on Nov 5, 2017 10:36:33 GMT -5
I do remember at the September Clash of the Champions 20th Anniversary show that Ric Flair's name was mentioned a lot and they showed a lot of videos and pictures of him. Which at the time I thought was weird with Flair being in the WWE still, and plus being the WWE Champion then. Another rumor around this time was that WCW and WWF were involved in a "trade" to send Flair back and for WCW to overlook the No-Compete clause of Lex Luger. So the idea was to build Flair back up because Watts was convinced they were going to get Flair back. i remember hearing that at the time. I believe flair was under contract until Sept and Luger was on a no complete so they used one to cancel the other out so they could bring luger in for the "youth movement" |
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Nov 5, 2017 17:47:16 GMT -5
Another rumor around this time was that WCW and WWF were involved in a "trade" to send Flair back and for WCW to overlook the No-Compete clause of Lex Luger. So the idea was to build Flair back up because Watts was convinced they were going to get Flair back. i remember hearing that at the time. I believe flair was under contract until Sept and Luger was on a no complete so they used one to cancel the other out so they could bring luger in for the "youth movement" That young, upcoming 35 year old Luger. 😉 |
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Post by The Brain on Nov 5, 2017 20:50:14 GMT -5
I always wondered if Flair stayed with the WWF if the blow off to his feud with Perfect would've ended at WM 9 or possibly a real feud with Hogan that would've culminated at that Mania.
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robbutler01
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Post by robbutler01 on Nov 6, 2017 8:17:39 GMT -5
I always wondered if Flair stayed with the WWF if the blow off to his feud with Perfect would've ended at WM 9 or possibly a real feud with Hogan that would've culminated at that Mania. Either of these would have been good additions to the mania 9 card - especially the loser leaves match from raw going ahead exactly the same as it did. |
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koreygunz
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Post by koreygunz on Nov 6, 2017 19:50:16 GMT -5
I always thought it seemed Vince soured on Flair quickly.
He wins the title at the Rumble in the biggest Rumble of all time, drops it at WM (understandable), but then isnt even in the SummerSlam card, wins the belt back (in a match Vince was NOT happy with) just to drop it to Hart a month later, tag math at SvS, then booted out of the Rumble by Perfect and beaten clean by him the next night on RAW.
Maybe Flair was a little hard to deal with? He obviously wanted/demanded to be used as a top talent at all times, and even wanted the finish changed to him keeping the title at WM8.
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Post by Nivro™ on Nov 6, 2017 20:47:47 GMT -5
I always thought it seemed Vince soured on Flair quickly. He wins the title at the Rumble in the biggest Rumble of all time, drops it at WM (understandable), but then isnt even in the SummerSlam card, wins the belt back (in a match Vince was NOT happy with) just to drop it to Hart a month later, tag math at SvS, then booted out of the Rumble by Perfect and beaten clean by him the next night on RAW. Maybe Flair was a little hard to deal with? He obviously wanted/demanded to be used as a top talent at all times, and even wanted the finish changed to him keeping the title at WM8.Honestly Flair should have kept the title at Mania. Nothing against Macho but him winning the title really did absolutely nothing. Everyone knows it should have been Hogan in the match but Flair should have went over Macho and then set up a match later with Hogan and/or Warrior at SummerSlam (or even a rematch with Savage) and then ultimately drop the title to Hart. |
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Nov 7, 2017 0:03:56 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that I once heard Flair mention a meeting with him, Macho Man, and Vince at the end of '92. Vince told them that he was going for a fresh, younger feel with the company over the next couple of years. He made it clear that neither Flair or Macho were in the long term picture as main eventers, but he gave them input on what they wanted to do next. Flair felt that he was still a viable centerpiece and asked Vince to let him return to WCW, which Vince did.
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Post by Back to the Codyverse on Nov 7, 2017 16:14:25 GMT -5
He wanted to become the legendary Spartacus
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2017 10:57:15 GMT -5
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