onlymoc21
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Post by onlymoc21 on Mar 1, 2021 20:23:16 GMT -5
Respectfully disagree dude, comparing it to actions of others during a pandemic is reaching as an example. If that was the case it would be like Walmart working in partnership with scalpers to raise price and value in desired items, with your example the above is the only way to give your example context. I am also tired of “this is the toy business, not the friendship business” this is where the actions of all is immoral. This product has been quoted and evidenced to cost $2 to produce, they would be in the profit at $5 price point. It’s is a collaborative effort of exploitation of a person’s passion for profit. Companies are allowed to make money absolutely, influencers are trends that pass especially with a niche focus, social media is a power tool that can be used for good and bad sadly, and should be used to a person’s advantage, not to take advantage. I get where you’re going however Figs aren’t a necessity like food or toiletries. There could be business ethics concerns in the toy world but morality isn’t in play with microbrawlers. The Nash brawler is sweet! I’m glad we are getting a ton more than just looking for the one crate a month one. I get your standpoint also dude and I totally respect your opinion and we can agree to disagree as our viewpoints are our own and different. I wanted to give my 2 cents on the matter.
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crush
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Post by crush on Mar 1, 2021 21:12:02 GMT -5
If that is a business platform they decide to use in the future, only releasing information on certain things through them, I will never know about it because I refuse to follow them. I actually feel compelled to chip in here. I completely disagree that influencers should play a role with collectibles sales. Anyone looking at this situation can see this is a very well thought out marketing strategy, that all involved gain a financial benefit from once product is sold. The market for Micro Brawler product has been blown up for people to feel these are must have items, for what they cost to produce and what they are asking for is easily one of the highest profit margins I have ever seen. Can I see these retaining value, no, not at all. In a years time a lot of people will question why they spent their income on such product. My issue is actually of collectors being taken advantage of and having there passions being exploited for financial gain, it’s wrong and extremely immoral. But again just my opinion, people continue to buy into it, so it’s a double edged sword, I feel so sorry for the collectors being exploited by influencers and PWT but those same people continue to buy into it, and in doing so ensure such practice will continue going forward. That's literally how every kind of collectible business operates. Sometimes the collection retain value, goes up, goes down, etc, but at it's core every toy/collectible/action figures is operating under these same principles. Anyway, FWIW, I actually think the PWTees app was the first place to pop the Nash. It was the first place I saw it a lot.
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Post by WOOOOOO on Mar 1, 2021 22:23:46 GMT -5
I didn't get a notice from any social media form about this drop. PWT app notified of it before anything else.
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onlymoc21
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Post by onlymoc21 on Mar 1, 2021 23:19:26 GMT -5
I actually feel compelled to chip in here. I completely disagree that influencers should play a role with collectibles sales. Anyone looking at this situation can see this is a very well thought out marketing strategy, that all involved gain a financial benefit from once product is sold. The market for Micro Brawler product has been blown up for people to feel these are must have items, for what they cost to produce and what they are asking for is easily one of the highest profit margins I have ever seen. Can I see these retaining value, no, not at all. In a years time a lot of people will question why they spent their income on such product. My issue is actually of collectors being taken advantage of and having there passions being exploited for financial gain, it’s wrong and extremely immoral. But again just my opinion, people continue to buy into it, so it’s a double edged sword, I feel so sorry for the collectors being exploited by influencers and PWT but those same people continue to buy into it, and in doing so ensure such practice will continue going forward. That's literally how every kind of collectible business operates. Sometimes the collection retain value, goes up, goes down, etc, but at it's core every toy/collectible/action figures is operating under these same principles. Anyway, FWIW, I actually think the PWTees app was the first place to pop the Nash. It was the first place I saw it a lot. I will disagree sir. Not every toy company operates in this way. If you look at Mattel for example they set a price point and stick to that price point regardless of popularity of certain superstars that will sell well in stores, and their price point has remained the same for years, when there is new releases from Mattel, they know there will be ones with incredible secondary market value, but regardless the price point remains the same, they don’t go “Decade of Dominance Kane is going to be worth a lot, lets charge $30 for him” it seems to me trying to charge so much for a micro brawler right of the bat simply comes down to greed in my opinion. With regards to PWT, a year ago Micro Brawlers were available, easy to obtain etc and had a set price point that was fair and still profitable, a price point that has now be manufactured to inflate over a number of months to create a perceived demand, the issue does mainly lie with exploitation of a collector, there are people on this very board that was into the Micro Brawler line before it became the “it thing” who have now been priced out, is that the right way to have their loyalty rewarded? No. Essentially what is happening now with the support of influencers is the market is being created to suggest these are now incredibly limited and must haves, also I would like to added this is a business model used by some influencers and their products, so I am not buying for a second they don’t have a role in this “limited” product approach, It’s very apparent this is a joint effort to target “Marks” and get as much of their income as possible. Again I like to think their are toy companies like Mattel who develop products out of love and passion and of course to make profit in the process, but also act accordingly and do not insult their customer’s with obvious sale tactics that exploits a collectors passion. At the end of the day people can spend their hard earned money on whatever they want, everyone has earned that right, but when something is obvious and as clear as day, it is for sure allowed to be questioned.
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crush
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Post by crush on Mar 2, 2021 1:34:03 GMT -5
That's literally how every kind of collectible business operates. Sometimes the collection retain value, goes up, goes down, etc, but at it's core every toy/collectible/action figures is operating under these same principles. Anyway, FWIW, I actually think the PWTees app was the first place to pop the Nash. It was the first place I saw it a lot. I will disagree sir. Not every toy company operates in this way. If you look at Mattel for example they set a price point and stick to that price point regardless of popularity of certain superstars that will sell well in stores, and their price point has remained the same for years, when there is new releases from Mattel, they know there will be ones with incredible secondary market value, but regardless the price point remains the same, they don’t go “Decade of Dominance Kane is going to be worth a lot, lets charge $30 for him” it seems to me trying to charge so much for a micro brawler right of the bat simply comes down to greed in my opinion. With regards to PWT, a year ago Micro Brawlers were available, easy to obtain etc and had a set price point that was fair and still profitable, a price point that has now be manufactured to inflate over a number of months to create a perceived demand, the issue does mainly lie with exploitation of a collector, there are people on this very board that was into the Micro Brawler line before it became the “it thing” who have now been priced out, is that the right way to have their loyalty rewarded? No. Essentially what is happening now with the support of influencers is the market is being created to suggest these are now incredibly limited and must haves, also I would like to added this is a business model used by some influencers and their products, so I am not buying for a second they don’t have a role in this “limited” product approach, It’s very apparent this is a joint effort to target “Marks” and get as much of their income as possible. Again I like to think their are toy companies like Mattel who develop products out of love and passion and of course to make profit in the process, but also act accordingly and do not insult their customer’s with obvious sale tactics that exploits a collectors passion. At the end of the day people can spend their hard earned money on whatever they want, everyone has earned that right, but when something is obvious and as clear as day, it is for sure allowed to be questioned. None of the following is me knocking Mattel, but: -Their prices have increased considerably. -They make a point of introducing in-demand figures first into higher-priced lines whenever possible. (Hollywood Hogan as a Ultimate, Goldberg with the ring then WCW Goldberg as a Entrance Great, Angle as an Entrance Great, etc.) -They put in-demand looks into store exclusive lines as a way to make those store exclusive lines (which always cost more than normal Elites) more valuable to consumers which in turn makes them more valuable to the stores that buy them. To use your example, they don’t directly say “Decade or Domination Kane will be $30.00” but they do put said highly requested unmasking Kane in the more expensive store exclusive line for essentially the same reason: because it’s more valuable to their bottom line to do so. (Remember, Mattel and other major toy companies are selling to stores, not directly to consumers). -Ditto Collector’s Edition, Store Exclusive Chase figures. -They repeatedly hold back “major looks” of characters so that other looks sell first, “double-dipping” on said characters. -Mattel, like every other major toy company is out to make money and is swinging massive profit margins on their product lines. If they weren’t, said product lines wouldn’t exist. The designers and team that works on the product are in it for love, but the company themselves are in it to make the most money possible, in whatever ways possible. Same for Hasbro, or any other toymaker. Again, none of that was me knocking Mattel. They are a business and function as such. Now for PWTees, whom I’m not trying to defend (and whose tactics I’ve questioned numerous times in this thread): -As far as loyalty, the original Micro Brawler buyers were Crate Subscribers, and Crate Subscribers still get a MB every month for roughly the same price that it’s always been. -It’s a misnomer to say that Brawlers were readily available before this past year. The individual series PWTees sold were, but those were made up (mostly, not all, but mostly) of second and third-tier names that didn’t fetch big secondary market prices. The older Crate Brawlers have been shooting up since 2018. -Do I think that someone at PWTees looked at the Brawlers and said “why are we we charging $12.00 for these when any that we don’t have in stock are selling third-party for much higher?” Yeah, probably. Do I like that? Personally, no. But it’s the same business philosophy that every other company works on. -The MajorPod has put Brawlers under a bigger spotlight, which in-turn likely alerted more scalpers to the popularity of Brawlers, but I really don’t buy the idea that the MajorPod guys are puppetmasters manipulating the Brawler market to their liking. It doesn’t make the slightest bit of sense and reeks of people trying to find things to “blame” them for because they dislike them personally.
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onlymoc21
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Post by onlymoc21 on Mar 2, 2021 3:40:21 GMT -5
I will disagree sir. Not every toy company operates in this way. If you look at Mattel for example they set a price point and stick to that price point regardless of popularity of certain superstars that will sell well in stores, and their price point has remained the same for years, when there is new releases from Mattel, they know there will be ones with incredible secondary market value, but regardless the price point remains the same, they don’t go “Decade of Dominance Kane is going to be worth a lot, lets charge $30 for him” it seems to me trying to charge so much for a micro brawler right of the bat simply comes down to greed in my opinion. With regards to PWT, a year ago Micro Brawlers were available, easy to obtain etc and had a set price point that was fair and still profitable, a price point that has now be manufactured to inflate over a number of months to create a perceived demand, the issue does mainly lie with exploitation of a collector, there are people on this very board that was into the Micro Brawler line before it became the “it thing” who have now been priced out, is that the right way to have their loyalty rewarded? No. Essentially what is happening now with the support of influencers is the market is being created to suggest these are now incredibly limited and must haves, also I would like to added this is a business model used by some influencers and their products, so I am not buying for a second they don’t have a role in this “limited” product approach, It’s very apparent this is a joint effort to target “Marks” and get as much of their income as possible. Again I like to think their are toy companies like Mattel who develop products out of love and passion and of course to make profit in the process, but also act accordingly and do not insult their customer’s with obvious sale tactics that exploits a collectors passion. At the end of the day people can spend their hard earned money on whatever they want, everyone has earned that right, but when something is obvious and as clear as day, it is for sure allowed to be questioned. None of the following is me knocking Mattel, but: -Their prices have increased considerably. -They make a point of introducing in-demand figures first into higher-priced lines whenever possible. (Hollywood Hogan as a Ultimate, Goldberg with the ring then WCW Goldberg as a Entrance Great, Angle as an Entrance Great, etc.) -They put in-demand looks into store exclusive lines as a way to make those store exclusive lines (which always cost more than normal Elites) more valuable to consumers which in turn makes them more valuable to the stores that buy them. To use your example, they don’t directly say “Decade or Domination Kane will be $30.00” but they do put said highly requested unmasking Kane in the more expensive store exclusive line for essentially the same reason: because it’s more valuable to their bottom line to do so. (Remember, Mattel and other major toy companies are selling to stores, not directly to consumers). -Ditto Collector’s Edition, Store Exclusive Chase figures. -They repeatedly hold back “major looks” of characters so that other looks sell first, “double-dipping” on said characters. -Mattel, like every other major toy company is out to make money and is swinging massive profit margins on their product lines. If they weren’t, said product lines wouldn’t exist. The designers and team that works on the product are in it for love, but the company themselves are in it to make the most money possible, in whatever ways possible. Same for Hasbro, or any other toymaker. Again, none of that was me knocking Mattel. They are a business and function as such. Now for PWTees, whom I’m not trying to defend (and whose tactics I’ve questioned numerous times in this thread): -As far as loyalty, the original Micro Brawler buyers were Crate Subscribers, and Crate Subscribers still get a MB every month for roughly the same price that it’s always been. -It’s a misnomer to say that Brawlers were readily available before this past year. The individual series PWTees sold were, but those were made up (mostly, not all, but mostly) of second and third-tier names that didn’t fetch big secondary market prices. The older Crate Brawlers have been shooting up since 2018. -Do I think that someone at PWTees looked at the Brawlers and said “why are we we charging $12.00 for these when any that we don’t have in stock are selling third-party for much higher?” Yeah, probably. Do I like that? Personally, no. But it’s the same business philosophy that every other company works on. -The MajorPod has put Brawlers under a bigger spotlight, which in-turn likely alerted more scalpers to the popularity of Brawlers, but I really don’t buy the idea that the MajorPod guys are puppetmasters manipulating the Brawler market to their liking. It doesn’t make the slightest bit of sense and reeks of people trying to find things to “blame” them for because they dislike them personally. Crush. Man I must say and give you credit, this is a incredibly well put together response, and I thank you for going into such detail, this is good healthy debate. I like to think both of our viewpoints have merit and I like that we looked at it from a lot of different viewpoints and some of the points you raised are indeed thought provoking. I would personally disagree that Mattel holds of desired looks to double dip. I personally feel this to be the opposite, as in we get a most desired look first and foremost, they look at how collectors respond to said figure and then go from there, and then it becomes a matter of supply and demand. With regards to PWT they have introduced sales strategy’s as of late that are in a lot of ways upsetting to collectors of the Micro Brawler line, and a lot of people have highlighted a lot of the same points I have and I choose to believe there is no smoke without fire in those situations and the evidence to support collaboration in taking advantage of collectors of the product is very evident to me. With regards to MWFP, I have not listened in a long time because all it became was an almost 2 hour long advertisement of (buy our shirts, pins, prints, toys etc etc) but I have read a great deal on them via other boards and groups that again evidence they have had a negative impact across a number of collector platforms. With that I personally believe a lot of the blame is warranted, they actively accept credibility to spikes in collectors markets as their doing, they have to accept the good and the bad that comes with that. With respect, I don’t believe they are in the same boat as collectors, they like to think they are but this is not true, they get products free (influencer samples) and this has breached into rare and limited chases (All AEW chases and ongoing) they get heads up before products are due to drop and realistically if they miss a product they have means and key contacts to get product. I just personally don’t buy that in this day and age because of their status it warrants privileged treatment and I think in a lot of ways they are what is wrong with the collectors community, just my opinion, Do I understand it yes but simply don’t agree with it. But that’s the world we live in. Again dude fantastic points raised on your part and I really appreciate the thought provoking viewpoint you provided.
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mrh
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Post by mrh on Mar 2, 2021 3:46:10 GMT -5
I think Cardona and the PWT guys must come to this page and laugh like hell about the reaction people have to their BS. Still laughing at all the people who bought that Nash to sell it, and are gonna be left holding the bag.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 5:31:47 GMT -5
We know with the MachoMan releases that MakorPod had different photos available to help advertise the sales. Taking a look at some of the evidence here and there looks like the MajorPod post about the Nash was just information sharing and not a direct marketing announcement..
I think we can’t wrap all this debate by just following and setting notifications across multiple platforms if we want to be notified ASAP. PWT is not going to advertise in the same spot at the same time on the same day everytime. That is fun! Sometimes you’ll win and sometimes you’ll lose.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 5:48:25 GMT -5
The only potential issues I see with MicroBrawlers right now is the shipping program and why some limited brawlers are individually numbered while others receive a Chase sticker. Time may alleviate both those lingering questions.
Who would have thought MicroBrawlers would blow past elites and Unrivaleds in price and popularity?
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Post by hitmancmedge on Mar 2, 2021 6:35:04 GMT -5
The only potential issues I see with MicroBrawlers right now is the shipping program and why some limited brawlers are individually numbered while others receive a Chase sticker. Time may alleviate both those lingering questions. Who would have thought MicroBrawlers would blow past elites and Unrivaleds in price and popularity? Popularity? Dude they are from a single website in units of between 250-500. They are not at mass market retail being made in units into the thousands. They are niche. Hey you got the price point part right though.
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guster
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Post by guster on Mar 2, 2021 12:29:31 GMT -5
I have zero sympathy for people complaining about not being on a social media platform to find out about new drops. That's your personal choice you've made and you are fully aware of the consequences of not getting the information. Makers aren't obligated to personalize their message to you because you don't like a certain platform or account. We know the game at this point and it's just silly to complain about it afterwards.
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Post by stc13 on Mar 2, 2021 13:40:46 GMT -5
Not a lot to add to what has already been said. But I will say that for all of their faults, PWT has been pretty good about telegraphing how figures would drop.
Prior to the Owen drop, there were a lot of "turn on your Instagram notifications" type posts. Ryan had been pushing the PWT app for weeks, and it was pretty apparent that they would be using that for a future release.
Are the figures overpriced? Absolutely, for what they cost to make. But it's a niche product sold through and made by a specialty retailer. They're going to have pricing flexibility that is never possible for mass market figures appearing at brick and mortar retail. I absolutely wish the figures were cheaper, and if this were a few years ago and I were in a different situation financially, I'd absolutely be out. For now, they're fun and I keep buying when I see something I like.
But the age-old rules of don't pay scalper prices and scalpers will go away always apply, imo. For their part, I do think PWT has done as much as they can, but with pricing and limiting to 1-per to control the market. But if people continue to pay ridiculous prices for Crate chases or PWT figures, scalpers will continue to exploit that market.
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onlymoc21
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Post by onlymoc21 on Mar 2, 2021 13:59:37 GMT -5
I have zero sympathy for people complaining about not being on a social media platform to find out about new drops. That's your personal choice you've made and you are fully aware of the consequences of not getting the information. Makers aren't obligated to personalize their message to you because you don't like a certain platform or account. We know the game at this point and it's just silly to complain about it afterwards. I think that’s actually a shocking way to look at it, it’s actually forcing the hand of people to support social media influencers they do not wish to and that is wrong and I am sure they have their reasons for not wanting to support it, for a provider not to provide an alternative is not catering to their customer. I don’t think the attitude should be to just conform and accept to something they morally would not want to do, especially if they are paying customers.
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guster
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Post by guster on Mar 2, 2021 14:28:51 GMT -5
I have zero sympathy for people complaining about not being on a social media platform to find out about new drops. That's your personal choice you've made and you are fully aware of the consequences of not getting the information. Makers aren't obligated to personalize their message to you because you don't like a certain platform or account. We know the game at this point and it's just silly to complain about it afterwards. I think that’s actually a shocking way to look at it, it’s actually forcing the hand of people to support social media influencers they do not wish to and that is wrong and I am sure they have their reasons for not wanting to support it, for a provider not to provide an alternative is not catering to their customer. I don’t think the attitude should be to just conform and accept to something they morally would not want to do, especially if they are paying customers. They sold all 350 pieces yesterday based on a handful of tweets and/or IG posts. They don't need "alternative" forms of communication to move pieces because they're already selling out. Especially to appease the minority of buyers who just don't like a podcast they're affiliated with. Once again, that's YOUR problem. Not theirs. When I'm at work, I personally don't go around doing extra unnecessary work that doesn't benefit my overall work. Because that would be silly.
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Di-Di-Dis-Distribution Problem
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Post by Di-Di-Dis-Distribution Problem on Mar 2, 2021 15:41:52 GMT -5
Ryan is a chooch. A wealthy chooch...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 15:53:40 GMT -5
I have zero sympathy for people complaining about not being on a social media platform to find out about new drops. That's your personal choice you've made and you are fully aware of the consequences of not getting the information. Makers aren't obligated to personalize their message to you because you don't like a certain platform or account. We know the game at this point and it's just silly to complain about it afterwards. 100%. Like I said, scalpers know the game and to sit back and sulk only strengths their advantage over the collector.
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Post by WOOOOOO on Mar 2, 2021 16:23:51 GMT -5
Guys aren't we supposed to be pumped for brawlers rather than counting down to their demise? Yeah they are over priced and yeah the way some are released sucks but they are cool none the less. PWT fell backwards into a money pit here and they are reaping the rewards. You can bet we wouldn't be getting half the characters we are getting if they weren't making the money they are on these. Just be glad they exist. Pick and choose what you want. No one gets everything all the time just how it is.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2021 16:41:09 GMT -5
Guys aren't we supposed to be pumped for brawlers rather than counting down to their demise? Yeah they are over priced and yeah the way some are released sucks but they are cool none the less. PWT fell backwards into a money pit here and they are reaping the rewards. You can bet we wouldn't be getting half the characters we are getting if they weren't making the money they are on these. Just be glad they exist. Pick and choose what you want. No one gets everything all the time just how it is. I mentioned a few pages back how I’m happy that there is no way to be a completist with the Brawlers so I won’t wallow in misery every time I miss one. I think the times you’ll be able to snag one will be that much more fun and you’ll have a story to tell when you show off the fig. I’m starting to see a lot of similarities between Microbrawlers and FunkoPops where there are so many now everyone’s collection is different and colorful. Everyone’s Unrivaled and Elite collections look basically the same..cool but similar. Microbrawler collections can be so individualistic and they get more unique every time there is a drop! I’m just happy the Tatanka brawler was a common crate one lol!
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Post by stc13 on Mar 2, 2021 19:40:49 GMT -5
Guys aren't we supposed to be pumped for brawlers rather than counting down to their demise? Yeah they are over priced and yeah the way some are released sucks but they are cool none the less. PWT fell backwards into a money pit here and they are reaping the rewards. You can bet we wouldn't be getting half the characters we are getting if they weren't making the money they are on these. Just be glad they exist. Pick and choose what you want. No one gets everything all the time just how it is. I mentioned a few pages back how I’m happy that there is no way to be a completist with the Brawlers so I won’t wallow in misery every time I miss one. I think the times you’ll be able to snag one will be that much more fun and you’ll have a story to tell when you show off the fig. I’m starting to see a lot of similarities between Microbrawlers and FunkoPops where there are so many now everyone’s collection is different and colorful. Everyone’s Unrivaled and Elite collections look basically the same..cool but similar. Microbrawler collections can be so individualistic and they get more unique every time there is a drop! I’m just happy the Tatanka brawler was a common crate one lol! I was never a full-on completionist. But I missed Shiek and the PWT Owen. I was upset at the time, but it's a bit of a relief to not be on edge waiting for a new figure to drop. I've bought the ones that I like, but if I miss something I'm not going to lose sleep over it. But the variety is cool, with figures from basically every major promotion. I'm interested to see how these go moving forward. At the same time...I'm not sure how much space I'm willing to dedicate to these. I'm already at 2 six-tier displays.
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mrh
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Post by mrh on Mar 3, 2021 2:33:33 GMT -5
I have zero sympathy for people complaining about not being on a social media platform to find out about new drops. That's your personal choice you've made and you are fully aware of the consequences of not getting the information. Makers aren't obligated to personalize their message to you because you don't like a certain platform or account. We know the game at this point and it's just silly to complain about it afterwards.
100% to this -- if you're personally choosing you want to be tiny of a tiny 'exclusive' club, then anything else is on you. Hope you had the money to waste!
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