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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Aug 28, 2007 17:53:11 GMT -5
Honestly, I'm astonished that you would sell Mo down the river like that so quickly, Lorenzo. Haven't you learned ANYTHING from the previous years? He always has a period of time down the stretch in August when he sucks and everyone always freaks out until he rattles off 5 straight saves again. The only difference is he hasn't had that many opportunities this year as he had in the past. Maybe if his velocity was dramatically declining, I'd agree with you...but he's still throwing in the 90s and his cutter is still sick. Once he starts throwing 89 and leaving his cutter over the middle of the plate, I'll worry. But the fact that you think he's finished is just crazy to me. Saying that about Mussina is one thing, but you should know better with Mariano. It doesn't matter how hard you throw. Kyle Farnspenis is a prime example of that. 102 mph right down the middle and people tee-off on him. Mariano Rivera has given up MORE HITS THAN INNINGS PITCHED. Clearly his pitches are NOT doing what they have done in previous years which made him so effective. Velocity has nothing to do with being a good pitcher. Some of the worst pitchers in baseball have been able to throw 97mph. Somebody like Wakefield can win 16 games throwing 76 mph if you have good enough break and can spot your pitches where they need to go.
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Mike Dell
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 18, 2001 15:13:21 GMT -5
Posts: 3,383
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Post by Mike Dell on Aug 28, 2007 17:56:43 GMT -5
Anyone in the city know if they are selling Joba or Hughes player t-shirts yet? I saw someone with a Hughes a few weeks ago and it didn't look like one of the crappy online custom ones.
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Post by T R W on Aug 28, 2007 18:24:51 GMT -5
At this point, i have to root for the mets over the phils, because the division is out of the question, and the wild card is probably too, but not inpossible if we start playing some damn ball.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Aug 28, 2007 18:28:47 GMT -5
Lorenzo, you are so silly. If the Red Sox take Papelbon out and go to battle with a rotation of Beckett/Dice K/Papelbon/Wakefield/Buchholz and Gagne or some DECENT closer, I dare you to tell me that rotation and very good bullpen would put them in 3rd. You do not replace a closer unless you have a GOOD option. Joel Pierno is not an option, Eric Gagne is though.
Anyways, the Joba/Papelbon comparions arent far, Papelbon has had a lot more experience than Joba because Paps was a college closer, and a few years older than Joba. Joba is gonna finish this year with what 30 innings at most? Papelbon had 17!!! games of starting major league experience, not to mention 2 years in the minors before he was put into the closers role.
Lorenzo if your gonna make silly comments and assumptions at least get your facts right
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Aug 28, 2007 18:42:58 GMT -5
I assume that when you say that Joba will finish this year with 30 innings, you mean his time in the majors. Because if you combine the innings he's thrown in the majors and minors, he's going to throw over 100 innings this year.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Aug 28, 2007 18:44:37 GMT -5
Yah I meant 30 innings of major league experience, which is not and should not be enough for him to be thrust into a closers spot in NY of all places, my point was that Papelbon had more major league experience AND closing experience than Joba, so Lorenzo's argument just really wasnt the same.
If Joba had come up and pitched a dozen games or so last year AND was a closer throughout college (he didnt go to college), then the comparison would be the same.
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Aug 28, 2007 18:53:53 GMT -5
Yah I meant 30 innings of major league experience, which is not and should not be enough for him to be thrust into a closers spot in NY of all places, my point was that Papelbon had more major league experience AND closing experience than Joba, so Lorenzo's argument just really wasnt the same. If Joba had come up and pitched a dozen games or so last year AND was a closer throughout college (he didnt go to college), then the comparison would be the same. What argument?....I didn't have an argument, I wasn't even making a point. I was just stating the obvious that Joba Chamberlain is the Yankees only option as closer if they want somebody to compare with how good Papelbon has been and that if the Yankees put Joba in the rotation that makes the Yankees bullpen weak for 2008. Mariano Rivera is not only pitching bad, but he ALWAYS blows the saves against the Red Sox even on years when he was still pitching well otherwise. The Yankees have so many pitchers in the farm system that you would think they can afford to spare one in order to MAYBE strike gold and find a closer who can be dominant for years to come. Because it is my opinion that Jonathan Papelbon will NEVER start a Major League Baseball game. The Red Sox are NOT going to take a chance on having to use a ineffective closer, OR blowing his arm out by having him pitch too many innings. The bottom line is if it ain't broke don't fix it. The Red Sox have the best bullpen in baseball with Okajima/Papelbon, and if Gagne gets his sh*t together then they make it a 6 inning game.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Aug 28, 2007 18:56:01 GMT -5
Yah, even though I think Papelbon is like a Top 5-7 closer, not as amazing as you think....Rivera isnt far off.
I dont know why out of all places on this trainwreck of a team, you focus on one of the issues that is probably #29 or 30th behind Joe Torre's haircut and A-Rods hooker problem.
Fix the problems in front of Rivera and Rivera will not look so bad, and hes not looking bad at all really
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Aug 28, 2007 19:04:29 GMT -5
Like I said, Rivera is probably the least of the Yankees' worries heading into the offseason. I don't know how you could honestly think that Rivera is done, or even close to it right now. If he had the save opportunities, he'd be amongst the leaders in saves this season. It's not a matter of a lack of skill as much as it is the team's overall suckiness and the fact that we've had one of the worst bridges in the last several years when it comes to getting the ball to Mo in the 9th.
I just don't know where all this doubt in Mariano's ability has come from. I'd still rank him in the top 5 - 10 closers in the league. As a Yankees fan, I'm more worried about Mussina, the rest of the rotation, the bullpen, re-signing A-Rod/ Po/ Rivera, and first base than I am about Rivera's actual performance.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Aug 28, 2007 19:09:20 GMT -5
I think the Yankees would be stupid to give him a 3 year deal, but 1 year with an option or even 2 is where its at, but in the 2nd year of that deal he is gonna be a liability, but thats just how contracts work now
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Post by LA Times on Aug 28, 2007 20:06:58 GMT -5
Joba Chamberlain is going to break Orel Hershiser's scoreless innings streak record.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Aug 28, 2007 20:33:05 GMT -5
The lame curtain call and standing O after every time a Yankee does something magical is sooooooooooo stupid, if they won the game or something crazy like that sure, but its after every "big" hit.
After last night, you guys should be humble enough that the fans aren't throwing batteries.
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Post by comebackkid on Aug 28, 2007 20:35:44 GMT -5
A-Rod got boo'ed and Curtain called in the same game
makes Yankee fans look like true hypocrites
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Aug 28, 2007 20:37:53 GMT -5
I'm not really worried, this was the game I expected the Yankees to take, Dice K has been ehhh lately, but whatever, not to mention Pettite has been honestly the Yankees best this year.
No worries here. Damon hitting the jack kinda hurts, because he blows guys
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Aug 28, 2007 20:55:25 GMT -5
OH MY GOD JOBA DID THE FIST PUMP AND CELEBRATED LIKE PAPELBON! HOW DISGRACEFUL AND WHAT A SHOW OFF WAH WAH WAH.
See, how silly it sounds
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Aug 28, 2007 21:16:59 GMT -5
If Shane Victorino is well enough to pinch hit and steal bases, why the is he not starting games? The guy is killing my team.
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Post by immortal on Aug 28, 2007 21:26:48 GMT -5
ryan howard rulz. fuk u metz.
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Post by michaelrichards on Aug 28, 2007 21:29:01 GMT -5
i agree with ralpho, someone walks they get a curtain call at yankee stadium.
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Aug 28, 2007 21:31:01 GMT -5
The lame curtain call and standing O after every time a Yankee does something magical is sooooooooooo stupid, if they won the game or something crazy like that sure, but its after every "big" hit. After last night, you guys should be humble enough that the fans aren't throwing batteries. Not to start another petty argument, but the ovations that Boston gives their starting pitchers is by far the most ridiculous. 5 innings, 3 ER is apparently worthy of a "quality start" when you pitch in Fenway. And Mariano Rivera SUCKS, guys.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Aug 28, 2007 21:33:31 GMT -5
I've seen the Red Sox fans give MANY opposing pitchers standing ovations, and its one thing to give them a standing O when they are leaving...BUT NOT A CURTAIN CALL.
Anyways,
How bout them Phillies?
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