marklud
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 5, 2009 21:10:30 GMT -5
Posts: 1,762
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Post by marklud on May 11, 2019 1:40:41 GMT -5
Here's the quick background:
"Answer: Originally, the sign used to not be bad. Simply just "ok" or the well-known "circle game".
However, one day in 2017, /pol/ decided to see if they could trick the media into thinking it was a hate symbol as a joke. Obviously, most of the people who participated in this initially weren't white supremacists (yes, it's /pol/, I know, but I know lots of people who participated in this who weren't). Long story short, it worked. The media picked up on it and it spread like wildfire.
Now once this got big, ACTUAL white supremacists/bad people started using it. The most famous recent example being the NZ mosque shooter using it.
This made the snowball roll further, and now, sometimes, people can actually believe it means white supremacy no matter the context of it."
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Post by screech on May 11, 2019 1:41:05 GMT -5
Lmao oh noooooo he did the OK sign at a tv camera while a BLACK person was present! his intent MUST BE RACISM! I hope these damn white supremacist don't make ketchup their new logo or we will all have to stop eating ketchup The gesture is completely meaningless. Did you actually see the footage? He went out of his way to do it so it would get on TV with only his hand and the black sportscaster. Hmm, I wonder what the motivation could possibly be there? Again, you and I may just think it's a stupid thing but it's been co-opted/adopted by a group of fringe racists. Tomorrow some terrorist group may take another meaningless gesture and make it their own even if it meant nothing to us for the last 50 years. The hardcore band Isis had to change their name once that stuff began. This happens from time to time. Someone went out of their way to get on tv, while a black person was on tv, so this automatically ties it to racism? No, just no. Some band that most people haven't heard of changing their name because it's used by a terrorist organization who murders thousands of innocent people is not the same as everybody giving up an INNOCENT hand gesture because of some fake outrage. And yes, it is completely fake outrage. I'd imagine that 0.000000001% of people using this hand sign are using it for racist reasons. Expecting everyone else to stop is ridiculous.
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marklud
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 5, 2009 21:10:30 GMT -5
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Post by marklud on May 11, 2019 1:44:42 GMT -5
Did you actually see the footage? He went out of his way to do it so it would get on TV with only his hand and the black sportscaster. Hmm, I wonder what the motivation could possibly be there? Again, you and I may just think it's a stupid thing but it's been co-opted/adopted by a group of fringe racists. Tomorrow some terrorist group may take another meaningless gesture and make it their own even if it meant nothing to us for the last 50 years. The hardcore band Isis had to change their name once that stuff began. This happens from time to time. Someone went out of their way to get on tv, while a black person was on tv, so this automatically ties it to racism? No, just no. Some band that most people haven't heard of changing their name because it's used by a terrorist organization who murders thousands of innocent people is not the same as everybody giving up an INNOCENT hand gesture because of some fake outrage. And yes, it is completely fake outrage. I'd imagine that 0.000000001% of people using this hand sign are using it for racist reasons. Expecting everyone else to stop is ridiculous. OK, hear me out -- as I posted the explanation in another post just now ... whether it was used in the "joke" way or the way it's been adopted by some ... if the guy wasn't intending on it being racist, why the hell would he do it in such a public forum that would inevitable lead to him being banned or whatever? Bottom line is he's either racist or just an idiot. He could have done any other hand gesture in the world and no one would be talking about it.
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marklud
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 5, 2009 21:10:30 GMT -5
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Post by marklud on May 11, 2019 1:45:51 GMT -5
Did you actually see the footage? He went out of his way to do it so it would get on TV with only his hand and the black sportscaster. Hmm, I wonder what the motivation could possibly be there? Again, you and I may just think it's a stupid thing but it's been co-opted/adopted by a group of fringe racists. Tomorrow some terrorist group may take another meaningless gesture and make it their own even if it meant nothing to us for the last 50 years. The hardcore band Isis had to change their name once that stuff began. This happens from time to time. Someone went out of their way to get on tv, while a black person was on tv, so this automatically ties it to racism? No, just no. Some band that most people haven't heard of changing their name because it's used by a terrorist organization who murders thousands of innocent people is not the same as everybody giving up an INNOCENT hand gesture because of some fake outrage. And yes, it is completely fake outrage. I'd imagine that 0.000000001% of people using this hand sign are using it for racist reasons. Expecting everyone else to stop is ridiculous. Again, some of it definitely started it as a joke. Then the New Zealand mosque shooter used it too?
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Post by screech on May 11, 2019 1:53:58 GMT -5
Someone went out of their way to get on tv, while a black person was on tv, so this automatically ties it to racism? No, just no. Some band that most people haven't heard of changing their name because it's used by a terrorist organization who murders thousands of innocent people is not the same as everybody giving up an INNOCENT hand gesture because of some fake outrage. And yes, it is completely fake outrage. I'd imagine that 0.000000001% of people using this hand sign are using it for racist reasons. Expecting everyone else to stop is ridiculous. OK, here me out -- as I posted the explanation in another post just now ... whether it was used in the "joke" way or the way it's been adopted by some ... if the guy wasn't intending on it being racist, why the hell would he do it in such a public forum that would inevitable lead to him being banned or whatever? Bottom line is he's either racist or just an idiot. He could have done any other hand gesture in the world and no one would be talking about it. I hear everything you're saying. It's just my opinion that you have an overblown view of how big this thing actually is. That hand sign is universally used and is completely innocent. The fact that you're questioning what his intent was by flashing that sign to a tv camera tells me you have no idea what that is even typically used for. Tons and tons of people throw up that sign to "photo bomb" their friends or whoever is viewing as a part of a game/for fun. It's completely innocent 99.9% of the time and the fact that you overlook all of that and instead decided there's "absolutely intent" just because a black man was nearby while this guy was trying to get attention on tv is almost unbelievable. Someone went out of their way to get on tv, while a black person was on tv, so this automatically ties it to racism? No, just no. Some band that most people haven't heard of changing their name because it's used by a terrorist organization who murders thousands of innocent people is not the same as everybody giving up an INNOCENT hand gesture because of some fake outrage. And yes, it is completely fake outrage. I'd imagine that 0.000000001% of people using this hand sign are using it for racist reasons. Expecting everyone else to stop is ridiculous. Again, some of it definitely started it as a joke. Then the New Zealand mosque shooter used it too? Would everybody stop eating ketchup if he used it too?
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marklud
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 5, 2009 21:10:30 GMT -5
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Post by marklud on May 11, 2019 2:07:09 GMT -5
OK, here me out -- as I posted the explanation in another post just now ... whether it was used in the "joke" way or the way it's been adopted by some ... if the guy wasn't intending on it being racist, why the hell would he do it in such a public forum that would inevitable lead to him being banned or whatever? Bottom line is he's either racist or just an idiot. He could have done any other hand gesture in the world and no one would be talking about it. I hear everything you're saying. It's just my opinion that you have an overblown view of how big this thing actually is. That hand sign is universally used and is completely innocent. The fact that you're questioning what his intent was by flashing that sign to a tv camera tells me you have no idea what that is even typically used for. Tons and tons of people throw up that sign to "photo bomb" their friends or whoever is viewing as a part of a game/for fun. It's completely innocent 99.9% of the time and the fact that you overlook all of that and instead decided there's "absolutely intent" just because a black man was nearby while this guy was trying to get attention on tv is almost unbelievable. Again, some of it definitely started it as a joke. Then the New Zealand mosque shooter used it too? Would everybody stop eating ketchup if he used it too? Again, your 99.9 percent thing is just factually wrong. And I agree that a lot of people (definitely most) certainly use it for the original harmless way. But the NZ shooter used it. A crazy, racist militia group in Idaho used it. Coast guard/policemen have been suspended/fired for using it. It's honestly probably like an 85/15 split. But when the 15 percent is in public and shared by people who are clearly nuts ... so when it's used on TV by a white dude with the only guy in the frame being a black man, see ya. As someone said earlier, context is always king.
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Post by RuthlessFigs on May 11, 2019 2:27:58 GMT -5
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Post by screech on May 11, 2019 2:31:37 GMT -5
I hear everything you're saying. It's just my opinion that you have an overblown view of how big this thing actually is. That hand sign is universally used and is completely innocent. The fact that you're questioning what his intent was by flashing that sign to a tv camera tells me you have no idea what that is even typically used for. Tons and tons of people throw up that sign to "photo bomb" their friends or whoever is viewing as a part of a game/for fun. It's completely innocent 99.9% of the time and the fact that you overlook all of that and instead decided there's "absolutely intent" just because a black man was nearby while this guy was trying to get attention on tv is almost unbelievable. Would everybody stop eating ketchup if he used it too? Again, your 99.9 percent thing is just factually wrong. And I agree that a lot of people (definitely most) certainly use it for the original harmless way. But the NZ shooter used it. A crazy, racist militia group in Idaho used it. Coast guard/policemen have been suspended/fired for using it. It's honestly probably like an 85/15 split. But when the 15 percent is in public and shared by people who are clearly nuts ... so when it's used on TV by a white dude with the only guy in the frame being a black man, see ya. As someone said earlier, context is always king. Yeah, perhaps we should just agree to disagree here. There's not a chance in hell that 15% of the people who use that symbol are using it to promote white supremacy. Not a chance. A few radicals here and there using universally used hand signals mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. The guy at the Cubs game is a victim of outrage culture where everything is offensive and everyone is guilty. We have a long history of people doing that exact hand sign to get attention while in front of a camera but that's being totally overlooked in this situation and we have people claiming "there's absolutely intent" of racism because he did it while a black man was nearby. It's reaching so far and I'm just going to leave it at that because I feel like I'm just repeating myself and this will go nowhere.
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marklud
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 5, 2009 21:10:30 GMT -5
Posts: 1,762
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Post by marklud on May 11, 2019 2:40:06 GMT -5
Again, your 99.9 percent thing is just factually wrong. And I agree that a lot of people (definitely most) certainly use it for the original harmless way. But the NZ shooter used it. A crazy, racist militia group in Idaho used it. Coast guard/policemen have been suspended/fired for using it. It's honestly probably like an 85/15 split. But when the 15 percent is in public and shared by people who are clearly nuts ... so when it's used on TV by a white dude with the only guy in the frame being a black man, see ya. As someone said earlier, context is always king. Yeah, perhaps we should just agree to disagree here. There's not a chance in hell that 15% of the people who use that symbol are using it to promote white supremacy. Not a chance. A few radicals here and there using universally used hand signals mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. The guy at the Cubs game is a victim of outrage culture where everything is offensive and everyone is guilty. We have a long history of people doing that exact hand sign to get attention while in front of a camera but that's being totally overlooked in this situation and we have people claiming "there's absolutely intent" of racism because he did it while a black man was nearby. It's reaching so far and I'm just going to leave it at that because I feel like I'm just repeating myself and this will go nowhere. All good, we can agree to disagree. And I'll admit I probably came on a bit strong originally, I'm just in a bad mood because my tinnitus is screeching (no pun intended) like crazy this evening. Haha. Ugh.
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Post by LK3 on May 11, 2019 2:57:11 GMT -5
Someone went out of their way to get on tv, while a black person was on tv, so this automatically ties it to racism? No, just no. Some band that most people haven't heard of changing their name because it's used by a terrorist organization who murders thousands of innocent people is not the same as everybody giving up an INNOCENT hand gesture because of some fake outrage. And yes, it is completely fake outrage. I'd imagine that 0.000000001% of people using this hand sign are using it for racist reasons. Expecting everyone else to stop is ridiculous. OK, hear me out -- as I posted the explanation in another post just now ... whether it was used in the "joke" way or the way it's been adopted by some ... if the guy wasn't intending on it being racist, why the hell would he do it in such a public forum that would inevitable lead to him being banned or whatever? Bottom line is he's either racist or just an idiot. He could have done any other hand gesture in the world and no one would be talking about it. Let’s make up a hypothetical. Me, personally, had zero knowledge of this gesture having ANY kind of negativity surrounding it before seeing this thread. If I was at a game, or wrestling event, or whatever, and it just so happened to pop into my head “hey the camera is on me let me do this to the people at home cause it’s a game and funny hahah.” And then this whole big production happens despite me having no clue why. I’ve seen this game so many times on the internet the last few years or whatever, and never once had I seen anyone say anything about it being a racial gesture.
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Post by Nivro™ on May 11, 2019 3:17:14 GMT -5
A handful of white people use the "ok sign" and anyone that does it is racist.
A handful of muslims kill people in the name of their religion and "not all muslims are bad"
When's that next meteor??
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 3:24:11 GMT -5
I see many black people give the closed raised fist sign, a sign if black power and not a word of protest from the media or powers that be, but a supposed and alleged white power sign is jumped all over, something doesnt add up Is it ok to be a black supremacist but not a white one? Surely not
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Post by FLUX on May 11, 2019 3:46:31 GMT -5
A handful of white people use the "ok sign" and anyone that does it is racist. A handful of muslims kill people in the name of their religion and "not all muslims are bad" When's that next meteor?? Pick up a history textbook sometime. People have been killing other people in the name of their religion (including Christianity) since like...literally the dawn of humans walking the Earth. Because Muslim extremists kill in the name of religion, suddenly all Muslims are terrorists to you. By that logic, since the Crusades were sanctioned by the Catholic church, all Catholics must be warmongering terrorists too, eh?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 4:49:45 GMT -5
A handful of white people use the "ok sign" and anyone that does it is racist. A handful of muslims kill people in the name of their religion and "not all muslims are bad" When's that next meteor?? Pick up a history textbook sometime. People have been killing other people in the name of their religion (including Christianity) since like...literally the dawn of humans walking the Earth. Because Muslim extremists kill in the name of religion, suddenly all Muslims are terrorists to you. By that logic, since the Crusades were sanctioned by the Catholic church, all Catholics must be warmongering terrorists too, eh? Is that still happening in the 21st century? Or, na?
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Post by kennyw86v2 on May 11, 2019 6:15:22 GMT -5
Lmao oh noooooo he did the OK sign at a tv camera while a BLACK person was present! his intent MUST BE RACISM! I hope these damn white supremacist don't make ketchup their new logo or we will all have to stop eating ketchup The gesture is completely meaningless. Did you actually see the footage? He went out of his way to do it so it would get on TV with only his hand and the black sportscaster. Hmm, I wonder what the motivation could possibly be there? Again, you and I may just think it's a stupid thing but it's been co-opted/adopted by a group of fringe racists. Tomorrow some terrorist group may take another meaningless gesture and make it their own even if it meant nothing to us for the last 50 years. The hardcore band Isis had to change their name once that stuff began. This happens from time to time. A group of people using something a certain way doesnt make it racist. It makes THEM racist. Here is a small list of other things I have read that are racist lately: Flags Statues The back of a cereal box Fidget spinners Abortion Think about that... Really let that crapset in... THAT is why this isnt racist. It's just some stupid mother ers looking for 15 minutes and maybe a little check.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 7:23:53 GMT -5
IIRC this "offensive" craporiginated from 4chan trying to manipulate the media into fooling themselves.
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Post by 6 seasons and a movie on May 11, 2019 7:24:31 GMT -5
A handful of white people use the "ok sign" and anyone that does it is racist. A handful of muslims kill people in the name of their religion and "not all muslims are bad" When's that next meteor?? Weird I am seeing the total opposite happen right now in America. We have had several different white males kill people for not being white or of the same religion and people say it's because they are mentally ill, but a Muslim or an immigrant kills a random person and it's close the borders to them all and never let any more of them in. Back to the subject of the thread the guy was clearly play the circle game and may have been on the phone with a friend watching the game and got them really good. I have seen plenty of people do random things behind a reporter so that they can show people later themselves on tv. Are racist people using the sign for racist things? Yes, but this guy I don't think was.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 7:25:07 GMT -5
Always knew Obama was a white supremicist
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 8:46:37 GMT -5
A handful of white people use the "ok sign" and anyone that does it is racist. A handful of muslims kill people in the name of their religion and "not all muslims are bad" When's that next meteor?? Weird I am seeing the total opposite happen right now in America. We have had several different white males kill people for not being white or of the same religion and people say it's because they are mentally ill, but a Muslim or an immigrant kills a random person and it's close the borders to them all and never let any more of them in. Back to the subject of the thread the guy was clearly play the circle game and may have been on the phone with a friend watching the game and got them really good. I have seen plenty of people do random things behind a reporter so that they can show people later themselves on tv. Are racist people using the sign for racist things? Yes, but this guy I don't think was. But when a problem occurs within your home with your kids say, you dont chuck em out you fix them, but if a stranger came into your home causing crap you'd throw them out, exactly the same issue, home grown problems can be fixed, imported problems should be packed up and removed
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TOOxSW33T
Mid-Carder
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Post by TOOxSW33T on May 11, 2019 8:58:44 GMT -5
That hand sign is the 666 hand sign its a masonry hand sign just like Too Sweet is a devil hand sign i forget the real name of it.
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