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Post by Nivro™ on Sept 27, 2019 1:37:41 GMT -5
8 pages of personal attacks and this is still open. Has WFigs finally left the PG Era?
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Post by rkmo: 9 Month Warning on Sept 27, 2019 2:54:21 GMT -5
You mean stabs like this ? ... this is what keeps these topics going AND on track 🤔 Instead of replying to anything that I said, this was purposely picked out and quotes just to get a rise out of me, in hopes that I’d reply and then I’d be the one who gets in trouble. Yea, so, since this went completely against what had just been stated NUMEROUS times above ... it gets a pass as well ? Again, I can discuss topics that I don’t agree with somebody on, but I guarantee you had I just done that, then I’d have been jumped on for it ... yet I’m supposed to ignore it. I’ll wait for an answer on this .... On topic : The only one that’s getting the nominee from the Democrat aide aill be Joe Biden ... that’s the male version of Hillary Clinton. The whole impeachment nonsense comes at just the perfect time, wouldn’t you think ? I mean the Democratic party is all up in arms because they claim that the President went through a foreign country to dig up dirt on an opponent, but yet this js coming from a party that had paid a foreign spy a ton of money [millions of dollars] for a totally fabricated, and fake dossier 🤦🏼♂️ The same ones also compared the President to a Mafia Boss for trying to strong-arm the Ukrainian government ... yet, at the same tim we have Joe Biden on video threatening to withhold millions of dollars from that same government, if they do not fire a prosecutor investigating a company that his son is in bed with. So, would someone from the Democrat side care to explain this and how come this has been neglected, but yet the President is under attack ? I’m open to hearing opinions from both sides, but I’d really love to hear the left’s point of view on this one. Not really an "opinion" but a recollection of facts. On the Steele dossier, there are a number of subjects contained that were not verified. But several convictions have occurred in our court of law that does substantiate elements in the report, particularly the actions of Russian officials of hacking the DNC and disseminating the stolen information. It refers to the desire of a relationship between Russians and those in and around the campaign, which seems to be accurate judging by the numerous accounts of campaign officials and those in Trump's inner personal or political circle being associated with pro-Putin individuals, even after initially denying such associations. There is the fact the FBI investigation was instigated in July 2016, after the drunken actions of a Trump campaign lackey, and there was plenty of opportunity and motive if the true intentions of the Bureau were any less than protecting this nation's integrity. There is the fact that the investigation and later indictment of one Roger Stone could not have existed or continued solely on the dossier's claims, that multiple judges signed off on the intel gathering processes. There is the fact the late Republican Senator John McCain vouched for Steele's professionalism, which is more than want can be said when House Republicans attempted to unilaterally search for Steele without Dems' knowledge at the height of Nunes' "witch hunt" hunt. There is also the undeniable threat Christopher Steele now faces as result of daring to sully the country of Russia, as evidenced by recent assassinations of people on Putin's naughty list. www.lawfareblog.com/steele-dossier-retrospectiveOnto the Biden "conspiracy": the Ukrainian investigation into the company as a result of alleged crimes committed by the owner, allegedly committed before Hunter Biden became a board member in April 2014. By February 2015, a guy named Shokin was installed as the country's leading prosecutor and quickly became known for failing to investigate corruption charges and other improprieties that occurred during the last presidency of Yanukovych, the pro-Russian politician who employed the help of one Paul Manafort. This drew the ire of many in the international community. Institutions and other countries including the US demanded that Shokin be removed for his refusal to execute the obligations of his office or risk losing aid, as much as $40 billion, 40 times more than the Obama administration threatened to withhold. Sentiment within Ukraine were the same, as public demonstrations were held and various officials, including his deputy prosecutor, quit in protest. Once the immense pressure finally worked to remove Shokin in March 2016, the investigation proceeded until the case was closed in December 2017 with no charges levied against the owner. And throughout the entire 5-year extent of Hunter's role in the company, absolutely no crimes were alleged nor was there any evidence of wrongdoing, as revealed by multiple Ukrainian officials, and dare I say no specific accusations have yet to be uttered by those who are insisting an investigation be carried out in the subject. www.factcheck.org/2019/09/trump-twists-facts-on-biden-and-ukraine/Spent way more time and effort on this than I really should have. And I doubt it will do any d*mm good...
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Post by CM Poor on Sept 27, 2019 7:20:59 GMT -5
As is customary, the guy taking the mud slinging closest to heart and decrying each and every last instance of others playing less than nice is the one who, in explaining away why otherwise mostly routine discourse winds up getting shut down, came into the thread outright mocking the other side of his viewpoint, using blatant hyperbole to tear down their positions, and calling them names (in spite of his outspoken offense at such behavior).
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Post by CM Poor on Sept 27, 2019 9:31:18 GMT -5
As is customary, the guy taking the mud slinging closest to heart and decrying each and every last instance of others playing less than nice is the one who, in explaining away why otherwise mostly routine discourse winds up getting shut down, came into the thread outright mocking the other side of his viewpoint, using blatant hyperbole to tear down their positions, and calling them names (in spite of his outspoken offense at such behavior). Just three hours ago Trump posted this on Twitter: He's mad that people are picking apart his spelling in an insult. He then insults the guy again. This is the gold standard unfortunately and why I don't feel Elizabeth Warren will be a good candidate. She could have good policies, but she's going to be bombarded with "Pocahontas" chants and what not again. You just need that easy to remember insult to be thrown around (like Crooked Hillary) and the rest takes care of itself. This is why I feel she is not going to be good because that will be the focus, the mudslinging. C'est la vie.
We should never insult each other to get our point across, I just find it in a way almost offensive when the people who point out insults to them also defend the behavior. This is certainly an instance where you can't have it both ways.
I wonder if he deliberately misspelled "describing", too. Also, "Liddle, not Liddle" is making my head hurt.
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Post by rkmo: 9 Month Warning on Sept 27, 2019 11:42:38 GMT -5
@ham To be fair, I have also compared VP Biden to the former 2016 Democratic presidential nominee, as quoted: I believe Biden would be the best opponent but he is literally turning into Hillary 2.0 before our eyes, with his goofs and gaffes and missteps. All there needs to be is one part third-party candidates, one part ******, and one supportive take on public disclosure about the government's extraterrestrial knowledge to make it 100%. To boot, we now have the "scandal" that will get attention in primetime from now until the election.
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Post by rkmo: 9 Month Warning on Sept 27, 2019 12:26:43 GMT -5
@ham To be fair, I have also compared VP Biden to the former 2016 Democratic presidential nominee, as quoted Ah, I see. Like I said in an earlier post I haven't read previous pages just starting with the post like two days ago. I'm taking everything as face value from that point.
However, with the point I made, I still feel its valid, but with my goof I would have worded my post a bit different.
No worries. My views don't negate the message you were trying to convey. Personally, I am seeing the same general vulnerabilities that really irked the 2016 Clinton campaign where experience was spun as a disadvantage and worldly connections was proof of something underhanded, and the same inability to navigate the negative press it is presented with. Though I still feel Biden is the optimal choice to navigate thru the channels of partisanship we have today.
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Post by k5 on Sept 27, 2019 12:30:18 GMT -5
it sucks that trump’s hate has spilled over across the border - here in Canada we have Andrew Scheer, the conservative running for prime minister, who represents the nationalistic, racist, elitist agenda that the American right has popularized.
and here in Ontario we have that cancer Doug Ford.
these are dark times.
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Post by rkmo: 9 Month Warning on Sept 27, 2019 13:17:31 GMT -5
it sucks that trump’s hate has spilled over across the border - here in Canada we have Andrew Scheer, the conservative running for prime minister, who represents the nationalistic, racist, elitist agenda that the American right has popularized. and here in Ontario we have that cancer Doug Ford. these are dark times. The hate existed before him, and would have existed even without that association. That is giving him way more credit than he really deserves. Him tying his recognizable celebrity to populist ultranationalism to further his own personal and financial agenda, and those true believers in turn using the power and exposure to advance their narrative and achieve their goals, shouldn't lead to that correlation, even amongst the detractors.
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Post by rkmo: 9 Month Warning on Sept 27, 2019 13:48:32 GMT -5
No worries. My views don't negate the message you were trying to convey. Personally, I am seeing the same general vulnerabilities that really irked the 2016 Clinton campaign where experience was spun as a disadvantage and worldly connections was proof of something underhanded, and the same inability to navigate the negative press it is presented with. Though I still feel Biden is the optimal choice to navigate thru the channels of partisanship we have today. That's how I feel too. Though the Democratic Party isn't my affiliation, I just can't get behind the Republican party, ever, and with their showing in the last few years I truly would feel better if they weren't leading the ship. For example, it truly worries me that Ruth Bader Ginsburg is as old and in the condition she's in and can she make it another five years? Because that would give the Republicans and especially the Trump Administration far too much power in the Supreme Court literally for generations to come, and that is truly awful for that power to be wielded to one party. I almost feel close to saying with certainty that if RBG goes so does women's personal rights. Anyway, that's a discussion for another time.
With the current lay of the land I feel its truly going to be down to Democrat and Republican and I feel that Republicans are going to be very hard to beat, very hard. As I said, they are incredible supporting their party, even on blind faith alone, just on brand recognition. And if the Democrats want any chance in this fight, I feel they are going to have to simply play checkers and not chess and just go all in on the candidate that can beat Trump. This unfortunately puts the Democrats at a disadvantage because you know they're itching for another first in office, but realistically, you need someone that can spar with him verbally and take his childish insults and deflect them without stooping down to his level or getting caught up in it. That's how I see it as the unfortunate reality.
The Democrats I think right now need to truly figure out who their nomination is and start getting behind them as soon as possible and try to be as on the same page and build their base up to be as strong as the Republicans, because that in itself is a tough task.
Much more optimistic than me lol I truly feel if certain individuals are inclined, the future of our nation lies in the hands of two people, and my scenario would require immense and overwhelming cross-party public support and backlash to challenge and overcome.
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Post by FLUX '97 on Sept 27, 2019 14:40:43 GMT -5
No worries. My views don't negate the message you were trying to convey. Personally, I am seeing the same general vulnerabilities that really irked the 2016 Clinton campaign where experience was spun as a disadvantage and worldly connections was proof of something underhanded, and the same inability to navigate the negative press it is presented with. Though I still feel Biden is the optimal choice to navigate thru the channels of partisanship we have today. That's how I feel too. Though the Democratic Party isn't my affiliation, I just can't get behind the Republican party, ever, and with their showing in the last few years I truly would feel better if they weren't leading the ship. For example, it truly worries me that Ruth Bader Ginsburg is as old and in the condition she's in and can she make it another five years? Because that would give the Republicans and especially the Trump Administration far too much power in the Supreme Court literally for generations to come, and that is truly awful for that power to be wielded to one party. I almost feel close to saying with certainty that if RBG goes so does women's personal rights. Anyway, that's a discussion for another time.
With the current lay of the land I feel its truly going to be down to Democrat and Republican and I feel that Republicans are going to be very hard to beat, very hard. As I said, they are incredible supporting their party, even on blind faith alone, just on brand recognition. And if the Democrats want any chance in this fight, I feel they are going to have to simply play checkers and not chess and just go all in on the candidate that can beat Trump. This unfortunately puts the Democrats at a disadvantage because you know they're itching for another first in office, but realistically, you need someone that can spar with him verbally and take his childish insults and deflect them without stooping down to his level or getting caught up in it. That's how I see it as the unfortunate reality.
The Democrats I think right now need to truly figure out who their nomination is and start getting behind them as soon as possible and try to be as on the same page and build their base up to be as strong as the Republicans, because that in itself is a tough task.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg needs to live and work until at least 120 years old for this nation to be worth living in at this point.
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Post by k5 on Sept 27, 2019 17:19:55 GMT -5
it sucks that trump’s hate has spilled over across the border - here in Canada we have Andrew Scheer, the conservative running for prime minister, who represents the nationalistic, racist, elitist agenda that the American right has popularized. and here in Ontario we have that cancer Doug Ford. these are dark times. The hate existed before him, and would have existed even without that association. That is giving him way more credit than he really deserves. Him tying his recognizable celebrity to populist ultranationalism to further his own personal and financial agenda, and those true believers in turn using the power and exposure to advance their narrative and achieve their goals, shouldn't lead to that correlation, even amongst the detractors. right, it existed. he however popularized and escalated it by serious proportions. there is no question that there is a clear correlation. for years (my entire life) here in Canada it was completely unacceptable socially to identify with hateful viewpoints - rather the policies followed suit or not, Canada prided itself on being a progressive nation. now we have a candidate for prime minister who won’t openly say his stance on homosexuality and won’t apologize for comments that were homophobic in his past. the current prime minister is readily identified as a snowflake. crap washes into the rivers and gets everywhere. so take care of your crap pls.
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Post by bad guy™ on Sept 30, 2019 18:46:39 GMT -5
You guys catch the debate last night on NBC? Did see the FB Live stream of the Republican debate. Yiiiikes.
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Post by johnnyb on Oct 1, 2019 11:21:54 GMT -5
Despite the media burying him every day for the last two months, Bernie Sanders just raised more in Q3 than Warren raised in Q1 and Q2 combined. At this time in 2015 he had set a record for 1.3M individual contributions. This year... 3.3M.
I'm very excited to see the MSNBCs and CNNs of the world trying to downplay it when he wins the first two primaries six months from now, too.
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Post by CM Poor on Oct 1, 2019 13:11:58 GMT -5
I hate to stand on the side of presumption, but I will be deadass surprised if NH goes to anyone other than Sanders or Warren. If someone were betting me a Coke, I'd probably lean on Warren over Sanders. There's particular science behind this presumption, short of the fact that, in my lifetime, on either side of the aisle, the only time I can think of a candidate coming in off of a position of leadership in Massachusetts and not winning the NH Primary was when McCain bested Romney by like, 7% in 2008. Apparently we like our neighbors to the south more than we let on here in the Granite State.
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Post by rkmo: 9 Month Warning on Oct 3, 2019 12:36:58 GMT -5
How long until there are conspiracies raised that the Sanders we eventually see come back on the trail is a doppelganger?
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Post by CM Poor on Oct 3, 2019 12:41:29 GMT -5
How long until there are conspiracies raised that the Sanders we eventually see come back on the trail is a doppelganger? I never would have thought such a thing, but now that you mention it, I'm running with it.
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Post by RSCTom on Oct 17, 2019 13:07:30 GMT -5
Well?!
Well?!?!?!?
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Post by CM Poor on Oct 17, 2019 13:51:20 GMT -5
Can people from all sides help on this... I really want to have places that are as neutral and unbiased as possible, because eventually this thread will turn into or spill into a formal election thread and we're going to be arguing against one another to prove the other wrong.
What are good sources to you that you get your news that you find credible?
How accurate do you find these images?
As far as national news with a political edge is concerned, I adhere almost exclusively to The Hill. I think it's pretty telling that, given the three graphics you shared, one plants it square in the middle, one suggests that it may lean slightly to the left, and the last suggests that it may lean slightly to the right. That's about as solid an average as you're going to get, I think.
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Post by CM Poor on Oct 17, 2019 14:07:52 GMT -5
As far as national news with a political edge is concerned, I adhere almost exclusively to The Hill. I think it's pretty telling that, given the three graphics you shared, one plants it square in the middle, one suggests that it may lean slightly to the left, and the last suggests that it may lean slightly to the right. That's about as solid an average as you're going to get, I think. I just grabbed three randomly from a Google images search to get the ball rolling, but I like that type of consistency. I'll make sure I put it in my rotation regularly. I think it's important to remember that in this unique political climate, with everyday people taking their adherence to the values of certain candidates and figures to levels of borderline fanaticism, it's really, really easy to read a relatively unbiased report and interpret it with bias, assuming the piece paints one's candidate or figurehead of choice in a less than universally positive light (through no fault of the writer).
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Post by rkmo: 9 Month Warning on Feb 5, 2020 16:29:42 GMT -5
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