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Post by warriorlynx on Aug 19, 2019 21:26:21 GMT -5
I know he's an attraction and won the title briefly in 1991, and I even have a diary about this on the Wrestling Sims board, but I keep thinking why in the world didn't Vince give Taker the title when Taker was main-eventing the second half of 1994? The guy was so over! Look at the numbers: SummerSlam 1994 - PPV Buy at 300,000 - UP from 250k in 1993.
Main Event - The Undertaker vs. Fake Taker
The next SummerSlam to beat this # was SummerSlam 1998.
Survivor Series 1994 - PPV Buy at 254,000 - UP from 180k in 1993.
Main Event - The Undertaker vs. Yokozuna in a Casket Match
The next Survivor Series to beat this # was Survivor Series 1998.
So after main eventing two big PPV's, Vince decides to not only go with Diesel for the WWF title he...gives Taker to...I.R.S at the Royal Rumble and then King Kong Bundy at Wrestlemania XI like WTF? And forget about the first fricken In Your House PPV, Taker isn't even on the PPV only a dark match WTF? |
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Post by The Brain on Aug 19, 2019 21:46:02 GMT -5
I would've been all for him getting the belt between 92-96 but Vince was to busy giving him the big guys. I've read Taker still holds a grudge with him getting put in that Gonzalez feud.I remember being happy when he won it at SSeries 91 but man it's a crime he had to drop it just days later.
Him winning it back finally at WM XIII in his original grey attire was a nice throwback though.
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Post by Hulkster2001 on Aug 20, 2019 9:46:48 GMT -5
I agree, he should’ve been champion instead of Diesel or Bob freaking Backlund.
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Post by MKSavage on Aug 20, 2019 10:50:21 GMT -5
I think Vince always saw him as the New Generations Andre. From what I've read and heard, just like with Andre, the thought was the babyface champion needs sympathy to get over and how would you give Taker sympathy since he's so big. How do you make the challenger look threatening to these guys (Andre and Taker). You would have to put Taker against guys who were much bigger than he was (Kamala, Gonzalez, Bundy, Mabel, etc.), however, those guys weren't really championship contender material at this point. Plus, the matches he was having with those guys didn't look great especially when you had Shawn, Owen, Bret, and others having much better matches on the card. It worked with Hogan, but most matches in his time didn't go much longer than his. His matches ran around 12-15 minutes which was usually the longest match on the card at that time. During Undertakers run against the guys mentioned above, Bret and Shawn were usually wrestling 20 minute matches really showing athleticism and creativity while Undertaker was stuck with the Giant Gonzalez and company - most of whom couldn't have a good match let alone go 15-20 minutes. Though, I would have preferred he get the title over Diesel, but Diesel had one thing that Taker didn't have at that time and that was Diesel was a pretty good talker and by old school logic he could, theoretically, talk fans into the building.
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Post by warriorlynx on Aug 20, 2019 11:52:36 GMT -5
I think Vince always saw him as the New Generations Andre. From what I've read and heard, just like with Andre, the thought was the babyface champion needs sympathy to get over and how would you give Taker sympathy since he's so big. How do you make the challenger look threatening to these guys (Andre and Taker). You would have to put Taker against guys who were much bigger than he was (Kamala, Gonzalez, Bundy, Mabel, etc.), however, those guys weren't really championship contender material at this point. Plus, the matches he was having with those guys didn't look great especially when you had Shawn, Owen, Bret, and others having much better matches on the card. It worked with Hogan, but most matches in his time didn't go much longer than his. His matches ran around 12-15 minutes which was usually the longest match on the card at that time. During Undertakers run against the guys mentioned above, Bret and Shawn were usually wrestling 20 minute matches really showing athleticism and creativity while Undertaker was stuck with the Giant Gonzalez and company - most of whom couldn't have a good match let alone go 15-20 minutes. Though, I would have preferred he get the title over Diesel, but Diesel had one thing that Taker didn't have at that time and that was Diesel was a pretty good talker and by old school logic he could, theoretically, talk fans into the building. It's true that he saw him as Andre, it's how he viewed things. His dad had Bruno he had to have a Bruno and wanted to keep Hogan around for a long time (heck the original deal in late 83 was a ten year deal) even post-93. However Taker was just so damn over and he really could work with a lot of guys. He didn't always need big guys. Putting him with Diesel, Luger, Bret and Shawn can work. He didn't really need a whole 20 minutes if you think about it since it wasn't always necessary for a champ to go the distance. Diesel didn't start off that good as a talker though when he won the title, his first RAW promo was absolutely terrible. He got better though especially when he was partnered with Shawn so I suppose Shawn was the big helper, and was so much better in WCW. Taker could just say two words and it clicked with his slow pace and mysterious words. |
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Post by JokerFC on Aug 21, 2019 5:37:04 GMT -5
He wouldn't have got it at all in 1997 either....that was factors elsewhere that led to him winning @ WM13 vs Sid.
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HandsomeHollywood
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Post by HandsomeHollywood on Aug 21, 2019 5:37:56 GMT -5
While Taker is a big star, I was never a big fan of him as champion. I find the gimmick doesn't lend itself that well to being champion, as what would an undead zombie want a title belt for?
I'm not saying he's bad or isn't a star, but he can still be in a prominent role without being champion. If he's bringing in buys without the belt, then he doesn't need it, and the company can leave the belt to the more grounded wrestlers.
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Post by Hulkster2001 on Aug 21, 2019 8:14:28 GMT -5
If he's bringing in buys without the belt, then he doesn't need it, and the company can leave the belt to the more grounded wrestlers. *Gives belt to Backlund in ‘94* |
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HandsomeHollywood
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Post by HandsomeHollywood on Aug 21, 2019 8:23:15 GMT -5
If he's bringing in buys without the belt, then he doesn't need it, and the company can leave the belt to the more grounded wrestlers. *Gives belt to Backlund in ‘94* Hey I never said they did haha. But they could have. |
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koreygunz
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Post by koreygunz on Aug 21, 2019 8:43:18 GMT -5
He was bigger than the championship. He didn't need it, as those ppv numbers suggest
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Post by keegandimitrijevic01 on Aug 21, 2019 9:39:21 GMT -5
Undertaker should've been WWE Champion in '93-'96, multiple times
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Aug 21, 2019 15:53:23 GMT -5
A little off topic but Ministry Taker should've had a longer reign in 99.
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Aug 21, 2019 20:11:13 GMT -5
A little off topic but Ministry Taker should've had a longer reign in 99. I just don't think Taker was reliable enough at the time to sustain a lengthy reign. He was beat to hell with injuries and gaining some serious weight. His in-ring ability might've never been worse although from a creative standpoint 1999 was a banner year for The Undertaker in the opinion of many. |
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Post by Artie Kendall on Aug 21, 2019 22:04:28 GMT -5
If he's bringing in buys without the belt, then he doesn't need it, and the company can leave the belt to the more grounded wrestlers. *Gives belt to Backlund in ‘94* *takes the belt off of Backlund after three days* Backlund didn't do any damage, he was just there to transition the title. But back to taker. You could argue that those buys say more for Bret Hart as champion than Taker as non-champion. And while the PPV buys is good, if people don't attend to buy merch at the stand well you really aren't making money. The Survivor Series 1994 is the lowest attendance for Survivor Series until 2004. Undertaker was also taking a lot of time off at the beginning of 95 and we all know he was out the majority of 94 to deal with previous injuries so he wasn't really reliable. And because Undertaker was stuck in his gimmick he could never be the face of the company at that time. Guys like Savage, Bret Hart, Diesel, could stray a little from character and do press/tv events and get people to laugh with them and not at them. If you watch Undertaker on Regis and Kathy from 94 you'll see what I meant. |
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Post by warriorlynx on Aug 24, 2019 13:58:57 GMT -5
*Gives belt to Backlund in ‘94* And because Undertaker was stuck in his gimmick he could never be the face of the company at that time. Guys like Savage, Bret Hart, Diesel, could stray a little from character and do press/tv events and get people to laugh with them and not at them. If you watch Undertaker on Regis and Kathy from 94 you'll see what I meant. Ya but think about it the Ultimate Warrior, who most people couldn't understand what he says, had a longer title reign than Taker ever did in the 90s. Warrior was out of this world just as much as Taker was. Taker could be the face of the company because he can tell good stories in the ring. His two casket matches with Yoko were epic, his match even with his own fricken self, no matter how silly it was, was a story that sold the PPV (or at least his return did). |
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Post by Kill Em' All on Aug 25, 2019 9:55:53 GMT -5
I would of gave him maybe like 2 or 3 reigns between 1991-1997. Also the Ministry era, it sucks his reign wasn't longer. It's such shame his work rate and his body was so beat up then. Taker really didn't recover in the ring till 2002 imo. His peak years of in ring work was 05-09.
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Post by JokerFC on Aug 28, 2019 12:13:33 GMT -5
A little off topic but Ministry Taker should've had a longer reign in 99. Taker was only a placeholder while HHH gained steam towards the title after Vince picked him over JJ & Gunn in June to run with. Thye needed the title off Austin while he feuded with Vince & Rock was employed to put HHH over. |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Aug 28, 2019 18:57:59 GMT -5
A little off topic but Ministry Taker should've had a longer reign in 99. Taker was only a placeholder while HHH gained steam towards the title after Vince picked him over JJ & Gunn in June to run with. Thye needed the title off Austin while he feuded with Vince & Rock was employed to put HHH over. Even still they could've let Taker keep the belt until Fully Loaded. Losing it on a random Raw was weird. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Sept 3, 2019 8:34:12 GMT -5
I think 1993 and 1995 were the only realistic times to put the title on Taker before 1997. Yoko was simply not over in 1993, and if Vince wasn’t putting the title on Bret or Lex, he should have gone with Taker taking the title from Yoko for a bit.
1994 was Bret’s year.
Vince was obsessed with keeping the title on Diesel in 1995, but you could argue that Taker should have held it during this timeframe (which I would argue for). Have Taker defend again a heel Diesel, HBK, Razor, Owen, Bam Bam, or Bulldog before dropping it to Bret at the end of the year. The list of heels he could have faced that year would have been large.
While I was never a huge HBK fan (Bret was my guy as a kid), 1996 was his year and Vince was obsessed with getting him over (similar to Diesel the previous year). Taker and Mankind didn’t need the title during that time.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 3, 2019 11:02:30 GMT -5
No, there is no place in between 1991 - 1997 where I could have seen Taker being WWE Champion.
He didn't need to be, he was a character. Yes, there was a lot of character driven wrestlers in that era, but his was supernatural. He didn't need the belt. He was more suited in these feuds with these monsters at the time.
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