jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on Apr 13, 2020 20:31:40 GMT -5
Undertaker is in great shape and bringing back the American Badass has made WWE interesting again. I agree that he shouldn't have lost to Brock Lesnar. The Fiend is the perfect opponent for him.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Apr 14, 2020 9:08:53 GMT -5
He said it himself, he got away with only working once a year because of the streak. I think Brock winning could be justified if that were Undertaker's last match OR if no one beat him again.
I think OP is wrong, Undertaker hasn't been the same since he lost to Roman at WM. THAT was the turning point.
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Post by PrincessOfSunlight on Apr 14, 2020 12:33:24 GMT -5
Taker should be done within the next couple of years, it sounds like their looking at next year by the tone of the documentary they're doing.
I also think that Brock should be the man to do the last match with; the angle being Brock is sick or seeing this broken down man who HE broke years ago at Mania carry on thinking Brock hasn't noticed. I know they did the trilogy that year but there needs to be finality to this one and it seems right to have it be the guy who broke that streak first come back for a final match to end it all.
Brock then has that to float on for another few years before he goes which I don't think is a long way off. Hell maybe Brock inducts Undertaker to the HoF the next year after the final Mania match.
Before that though you could have Taker retire Kane in a Boneyard Inferno boogaloo sometime along the way so that the Kane character has that finality which I think should come from a match with Taker. Kane and Undertaker take their place in the HoF in subsequent years, Kane first then Taker.
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Post by JTG on Apr 14, 2020 17:01:35 GMT -5
Unpopular opinion but I think Brock was the perfect guy to end the streak. I just wish the match itself was better and more memorable than the three count, but I understand why it wasn't either man's best performance. Plus, both men made up for it with their follow up matches the next year.
One reason why I think Brock was the right guy is that he has the legitimacy of being one of the strongest forces in the company. There's no doubt he is a top tier talent, and more often than not he is booked as such. That as well as the fact that Brock has become one of WWE's main attractions, love him or hate him. He has stuck around (albeit part time) over the last 6 years headlining major shows and has been portrayed as a legit beast that only a few guys have gone over clean. Looking back, it absolutely makes sense that he was the guy to break it.
Yes, in an ideal world I agree it would have been amazing for an established full-time star to go over and ride the wave of accomplishing something so big but who would that have been? What if they walked away from the industry like Punk or got injured like Bryan? Then breaking the streak would have been for nothing. At the very least it was one more major notch in the belt of WWE's "big bad" Brock Lesnar making him an even greater villain. I really think having Taker lose to anybody else would have backfired tremendously on any full-time wrestler short of maybe someone with a similar supernatural gimmick at the time.
I know the argument can be made that maybe WWE should have waited to end it. But like this thread title suggests, Undertaker started going downhill the moment he lost in his match against Brock. I would rather the streak be broken while both Taker and the streak still looked untouchable rather than seeing him slow down in the ring and lose when he's a shell of his former self. It was a very genuine surprise at the time and it made for one hell of a WrestleMania moment.
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 15, 2020 8:52:17 GMT -5
I think Lesnar was the right choice at the time. Bryan had injury concerns, Punk left, Cena didn’t need it, and Bray and the Shield guys were too “young” to be believe it. With Taker starting to show signs of decline by that point, I can see where Vince would panic to make a new unstoppable heel.
They problem is that they failed to build a star off of Brock. Brock beating Taker did wonders for his already immense credibility. Beating Brock should have made someone an instant name. The problem is that Vince was so focused on that being Roman that he wasted the opportunity. Nobody has really benefitted from beating Brock as even his booking has been up and down. We saw for years full-time guys loose to Brock, only for Goldberg to come in and do what nobody else could.
Beating Taker wasn’t their failure. Their failure was not using Brock correctly to make the next top star.
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Post by RuthlessFigs on Apr 15, 2020 9:33:32 GMT -5
What's even more shocking to me is that the streak ended 6 years ago.
6 Years Ago
How the hell has it been 6 years? Almost 10 Years...
Feels like less than 3 years ago i was sitting on my lounge, after School watching WrestleMania... Then literally saying "Oh f*ck" when the ref counted 3.
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jking1979
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Joined on: Oct 3, 2019 20:00:02 GMT -5
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Post by jking1979 on Apr 15, 2020 20:52:05 GMT -5
Did you people really want Brockamania and people cheering for him?
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hbkowns
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Post by hbkowns on Apr 15, 2020 23:34:50 GMT -5
Taker hasn’t been the same because he keeps coming back despite the fact that he CANNOT go anymore. WM28 should have been his swan song. His WM29 match against Punk was his last true great match and that was because Punk carried him. The match against Brock needed to happed the way it did. That streak needed to end eventually to give the rub to someone and Brock was the perfect candidate for that. The problem is Brock’s lack of effort and McMahon salivating over getting Roman over killed what that streak meant. The guy who beat Brock would’ve been made and they wasted years trying to convince fans that Roman was that guy and nobody bought it. Then they had Brock lose 55 year old ing Goldberg..... ing awful
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wheeljack83
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Post by wheeljack83 on Apr 16, 2020 4:13:00 GMT -5
Taker hasn’t been the same because he keeps coming back despite the fact that he CANNOT go anymore. WM28 should have been his swan song. His WM29 match against Punk was his last true great match and that was because Punk carried him. The match against Brock needed to happed the way it did. That streak needed to end eventually to give the rub to someone and Brock was the perfect candidate for that. The problem is Brock’s lack of effort and McMahon salivating over getting Roman over killed what that streak meant. The guy who beat Brock would’ve been made and they wasted years trying to convince fans that Roman was that guy and nobody bought it. Then they had Brock lose 55 year old ing Goldberg..... ing awful Pretty much.
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Post by kazoosandstreamers on Apr 16, 2020 21:08:42 GMT -5
Would have preferred if Roman just ended it, honestly.
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Post by Kill Em' All on Apr 17, 2020 21:05:18 GMT -5
I elaborate more now finally,
Personally ever since that one SmackDown match in April 2013 with Ambrose, Taker never has moved the same. Taker's last great match was in 2013. Taker and Punk's match was gorgeous. I think he lost it in the ring. Brock and Taker at WM 30 never was a good match imo. However, the shock appeal and the great significance will always remain. It really set the stage as Brock as one of the biggest players in WWE. And in a Kayfabe way looking at things could fight the idea that he is the GOAT. Since he broke the streak, destroyed John Cena, had title run. Cooled it, had a massive Universal Title reign, had another one...and another one and a WWE title reign. That's the foundation of the current idea of Brock Lesnar being Undestructable. And to think they're was talk of Brock leaving in 2015. So for Brock's end it's been nothing but fantastic. Personally, I think Taker's whole arch from like 2011 on was defending the streak. And I love Taker more then anyone. And I always had hope Taker was going to shake it off after 2014 and have a fantastic match again. He looked really bad in 2014, and he looks a lot better in 2015 and after imo. I love Taker trust me, I love seeing Taker. And I still have that hope he's going to put on a classic. And I think we are so f'n gifted to see that man all these years later. But I mean there has been talk of Taker leaving since 2012. Like imagine telling someone in 2012, Taker's gonna be facing AJ Styles at WrestleMania in 8 years. And as much as I bash modern WWE, I am glad we are where we are and not back in 2012. The level of limitations 2012 had. But, I mean we thought End of a Era was the final end. And we could accept it wasn't, but for while I felt convinced. Especially since he hit 20-0. I remember calling a guy a f'n nut for thinking he was going to go till 25-0. I also thought, Taker was going to grind till WM 30. And the streak ended and we thought that was the end. And I personally liked Taker's run in 2015, hunting Brock Lesnar. And those were serviceable matches. Then I thought Roman was going to do it. I think we lost a lot of good elements to the character.
I really hate Cena talking about Taker's wife, and breaking kayfabe. I hate that. I hateee breaking Kayfabe on TV. I don't care if his Insta is for his personal. But, when I watch WWE programming I want Kayfabe to be enforced. And all that breaking bugs me. And I think it discredits his backstory and passed motives. Like saying he's actually married family, but he still likes to take souls and still does supernatural things. Wtf. I think this new ABA hybrid is cool, but yeah I always like a chunk of Taker has ripped away. I will say I actually really enjoyed his match at ER last year.
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kaleb9
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Post by kaleb9 on Apr 27, 2020 12:26:11 GMT -5
Personally I think that Roman Reigns should have ended the streak at WrestleMania 33 but undertaker wasn’t in best of shape at WrestleMania 30 went he face Brock
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on Apr 27, 2020 21:36:10 GMT -5
They should have the Sting and Undertaker dream match next year.
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Post by The-Rock on Apr 27, 2020 23:34:16 GMT -5
They should have the Sting and Undertaker dream match next year. Well with all these cinematic/tapped matches it could happen. But ultimately it's just not the same without a crowd or in a tapped atmosphere. I need to see a Tombstone countered into a Scorpion death drop, and a Scorpion death drop countered into a tombstone. We also need to see A scorpion death lock into the hells gate, and the hells gat into a scorpion death lock. And a missed Stinger splash into a top rope walk. The turnbuckle punches and woo's turned into a chokes lame. You just book the match around a few necessary spots and it would be awesome. I think Sting vs. Undertaker and Austin vs. Goldberg were just never meant to be. I know people talk about Austin vs. Hogan...but they at least had a tag match together (although if I'm not mistaken they don't actually ever wrestle each other during the match because Nash & Hall did most of the work).
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sandeep
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Post by sandeep on Apr 28, 2020 1:30:43 GMT -5
Brock Lesnar does not deserve anything at this point. OK I got it that a dominant wrestler was selected to beat Takers streak but I personally want the end of the streak to be his last match and that to by someone of current era.
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Post by Dan on Apr 28, 2020 7:29:05 GMT -5
I think the Streak absolutely should have ended the way it did; the problem however is their misuse of Brock down the years after, to which the rub has ultimately been diminished.
If any future fan favourite star was to have beaten Undertaker and ended the Streak, then they'd have ultimately been hated forever, and quite possibly never recovered. They certainly wouldn't have had a 'passing of the torch' babyface rub. Brock Lesnar was perfect, and it elevated him to a legitimate Champion that quite frankly we'd never seen before. It solidified his gimmick, and the first run back as WWE World Heavyweight Champion was unbelievable, and even quite refreshing that he wasn't competing at every PPV. The real factor, is that the rub from ending the Streak actually lies within the one who is to conquer Brock Lesnar, clean at Wrestlemania. By doing so you become not only better than beating the Streak, but better than the most legitimate fighting Champion the WWE has ever had.
The downside, is that the man shaped and primed for this slot, was Roman Reigns, and they bottled pulling the plug on him not once, but twice. Wrestlemania 31 came along and they didn't feel the time was right due to the sheer fan backlash he had received, so they protected both him and Lesnar and held off on it with having Rollins 'steal one'. They then come back around at Wrestlemania 34 for attempt number 2, and out of no where have Lesnar beat him clean in the Main Event. During this time, they've already then wasted the shock factor of Lesnar losing clean to none other than Goldberg in what was a pure temporary hotshot. Not only was it supposed to be shocking when Lesnar finally loses clean, but to lose clean in 2 minutes just about becomes impossible to top.
By the time Seth Rollins beats Brock Lesnar clean, it somehow feels like the moment has passed on the rub you should naturally have had, and it was obvious that he was never the one truly supposed to be in that position. Then fast forward to now, Wrestlemania 35, and Drew McIntyre is kicking out of 4 F5's and beating Lesnar clean for the WWE Championship in less than 3 minutes in the Main Event of Wrestlemania, and yet it seemed like one of the most underwhelming, unshocking things I've ever seen. Brock's aura has totally gone. All that's left is that we might see the occasional good Match, but the novelty of kicking out of F5's or beating him clean has certainly passed, and all of this is what makes Lesnar beating the Undertaker seem less emphatic now.
Ultimately, it came down to them pushing Roman Reigns down everybody's throats and then bottling pulling the plug on him.
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Post by CM Tusk on Apr 28, 2020 12:40:37 GMT -5
Personal opinion, Brock ending the streak was the right call. Losing to Cena and then the feud with Triple H made him look like just a part time star. Beating Undertaker cemented him as an attraction. Brock is this generations Andre. Shouldn’t wrestle as much, shouldn’t lose often.
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Post by marino13 on Apr 28, 2020 14:45:13 GMT -5
Unpopular opinion... I didn't care for the Punk match. I think Taker's last truly great match was WM28 in the End of a Era match. I think that should have been his swan song. Go out on top and leave the fans wanting more.
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Post by CM Tusk on Apr 28, 2020 15:37:49 GMT -5
I feel like he should just work more like he did in the early 90s. Simple and short matches where he hardly needs to sell or do much. Loved him vs Cena at Mania 34.
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