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Post by The-Rock on May 11, 2020 23:59:03 GMT -5
Everyone seems to critique the Invasion, however I think it was one of the most exciting era's in WWE given that we finally got to see WWF vs. WCW, even if the WCW roster was a little lackluster.
One thing that always bothered me was that reduced to its simplest form the feud was just a glorified next chapter of the Austin/McMahon rivalry. Beyond introducing some talent to the roster and providing an interesting platform for 2 weeks to hype The Rock's return (which would have been hyped no matter), it didn't really accomplish anything in the grander scheme of growing the business.
However, within a month Chris Jericho had finally broken the glass ceiling...something that could have been accomplished much sooner and with larger implications had he defeated Austin at KOTR 2001 for the title with the assistance of the debuting WCW guys. While I know it was big schtick that he beat Austin and The Rock in 1 night, that could have still been done to help him grow.
As has been discussed to death, Austin being the leader of the Alliance didn't make a lot of sense other than as a counter to Vince McMahon. However, Jericho (a former WCW and ECW) wrestler would have been the perfect leader. He had the mic skills and natural heel abilities to serve in Austin's role as WWF (or WCW) champion. It also would've fit naturally in his eventual August-November feud with The Rock. Jericho could've continued to feud with Austin, and then Angle, Undertaker, etc.
I also would have:
-Had Big Show join the Alliance as a main eventer. He was a world champion and treated fairly in WCW. His history/alliance with Shane would've made sense and he would've added some much needed main event credibility, muscle, and force to the WCW side, where as he was an afterthought until around Survivor Series. He also could've feuded with Undertaker/Kane/Austin and freed up DDP.
-Not fed DDP to Undertaker. One of the few actually big name WCW guys and they used him mostly as a tag team wrestler
-Actually pushed Raven & Tazz (who had been WWF wrestlers for a while and didn't deserve to be buried)
-Eventually split up the APA and used Ron Simmons as an upper mid carder and for the ability to push Bradshaw so that he would have been a bigger name by the time of the draft.
-Added Perry Saturn and Malenko to the Alliance
-Added the nuclear heat magnet X-Pac to the Alliance. He was fighting mostly WWE guys like Tajiri anyways. Had WWE been intent on doing the Undertaker stalker angle, I think X-pac would have been replacement. You can do X-pac & Albert vs. The Brothers of Destruction.
-Never had Angle defect.
Obviously had Benoit and Guerrero been available, both would have been major players for WCW. I remember loving WWF's mini faction of benoit, Shane, and Big Show. Would have been awesome to have mini group of those 3+Booker T.
Ultimately, everything would have turned out the same way but Jericho would have been catapulted to stardom far sooner, while DDP and Big Show's value could have been
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on May 12, 2020 1:12:51 GMT -5
The Invasion angle could have had Hogan, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, Steiner, Sting, Luger, Jarrett, DDP, Booker T and Sid Vicious on the Alliance side, and Vince still would have squashed them all at that moment.
Guys like Booker T and DDP didn't get any chance to shine until they were WWE superstars in 2002. As long as they had WCW stank on them in 2001, they were doomed to not get one over on the WWE for the final victory.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2020 7:46:28 GMT -5
The Invasion angle could have had Hogan, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, Steiner, Sting, Luger, Jarrett, DDP, Booker T and Sid Vicious on the Alliance side, and Vince still would have squashed them all at that moment. Guys like Booker T and DDP didn't get any chance to shine until they were WWE superstars in 2002. As long as they had WCW stank on them in 2001, they were doomed to not get one over on the WWE for the final victory. lol great way to put it, still had that wcw stank on them. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2020 7:50:53 GMT -5
i just couldnt get into alot as it was such a letdown for me.
i fell they shoulda kept wcw alive as a separate show again for a while, maybe until he could work it out with a few of the big wcw stars.
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Post by The-Rock on May 12, 2020 19:16:31 GMT -5
The Invasion angle could have had Hogan, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, Steiner, Sting, Luger, Jarrett, DDP, Booker T and Sid Vicious on the Alliance side, and Vince still would have squashed them all at that moment. Guys like Booker T and DDP didn't get any chance to shine until they were WWE superstars in 2002. As long as they had WCW stank on them in 2001, they were doomed to not get one over on the WWE for the final victory. Oh absolutely. Those guys even had the WCW stank years afterwards. Nothing changes in the end no matter who WCW had or when it ended. The reason I suggested Jericho and Big show move to the alliance is because by September it had turned into WWF guys fighting WWF guys who defected to the alliance (Austin, Angle) and fights within the WWF (Rock vs. Jericho). Whereas Big Show was doing nothing until Survivor Series. Hogan, Nash, and Hall would have all been just destroyed (in the same way they eventually were). Goldberg would have been fed to Rock & Austin. Jarrett was never getting another shot, and even so he would have been relegated to putting over the likes of Jericho, Edge, Jeff Hardy, and Angle. Steiner & Luger would have been treated like DDP. Ironically, I think Sting (like Goldberg in 2003) would have been a guy that would have been treated somewhat fairly because Vince didn't have a vendetta against him for leaving/holding him up for more money. Sting also had tremendous merchandising potential and would have been a face within a heel faction (like RVD was in the Alliance). If the Alliance had Hogan, Nash, Hall, Goldberg, Sting, Luger, Steiner, Sid, etc...the storyline would have never worked because they would have had more main event talent than the WWF even had formidable wrestlers. I imaging it would have been a cluster  like the Main Event Mafia was in TNA. The company also wouldn't have been able to actually have any undercard matches. |
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Post by The-Rock on May 12, 2020 19:26:21 GMT -5
i just couldnt get into alot as it was such a letdown for me. i fell they shoulda kept wcw alive as a separate show again for a while, maybe until he could work it out with a few of the big wcw stars. They tried that with WCW branded segments with WCW commentators, ring announcer, and referee...it didn't work. It also wouldn't have worked long term with what little WCW talent they did have, look no further than the ECW revival. It would have been along those lines from 2006 when Big Show and Angle were part of ECW with random appearances by Mysterio and Batista and the like. |
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on May 12, 2020 20:36:19 GMT -5
I'm glad somebody else made a thread about the Invasion storyline. I never get tired of reading about the Monday Night War between WWE and WCW. It's true that Vince McMahon will always put over his boys against the competition. The reality is the Steiner Brothers would have went through the WWE roster alone. The only ones that would have put up a fight are Kurt Angle, Steve Blackman and Ron Simmons.
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on May 13, 2020 3:47:23 GMT -5
There’s so much that needed fixing to make the invasion angle work. But it was never going to happen.
The best for me would have been a mini story line where a handful of the available wrestlers feuded with a handful of mid and upper mid card WWF wrestlers. Would have been more successful (creatively) than what we got.
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Post by The-Rock on May 13, 2020 17:54:50 GMT -5
There’s so much that needed fixing to make the invasion angle work. But it was never going to happen. The best for me would have been a mini story line where a handful of the available wrestlers feuded with a handful of mid and upper mid card WWF wrestlers. Would have been more successful (creatively) than what we got. That's an interesting idea. If I had booked it (using only who was actually signed and/or not injured, and not rewriting history of things like Shawn Stasiak not leaking their involvement in WM 17 which led to it being cancelled), I would have started it in a similar manor but had a slower build. At first, I would have had Shane consistently trying to recruit or align himself with wrestlers, insinuating that certain guys were under appreciated in the WWE and would be treated better in Shane's WCW and/or that a storm was coming in that they had a chance to be on the right side of history. I would have had Booker T shown up and gotten involved in Shane's feud with Kurt Angle...as well as let Booker T make it to the finals of, if not win, the King of the Ring with Shane's help. Prior to the Austin/Jericho/Benoit, possibly even a week or 2 before it, we would've seen Shane individually proposition each guy and offered to help Austin retain as well as Jericho/Benoit finally beat Austin and become the world champion. Shane would get involved in Austin's match to help him beat someone, only for Austin to deliver a stunner and beat him down (thereby effectively rebuffing Shane's offer), Jericho would verbally run down Shane and say he'd never get involved with a McMahon, and ultimately it would seem like Shane and Benoit were reigniting their prior alliance from Summer 2000 (this would have also worked since Benoit was feuding with Angle at the time as well). Then at KOTR, I would have had Shane get involved so that Jericho won the title, and it was revealed Jericho was actually aligned with Shane. Then at the next PPV (in July 2001, but which would not have been InVasion) Jericho (on behalf of Shane McMahon) would have faced off against Austin (on behalf of Vince McMahon), with the stipulation that if Jericho retained Shane McMahon would be given creative control to run WCW segments during Raw and Smackdown. Whereas if Austin won, he would regain the title and Shane's WCW vision would be banned. In the weeks leading up to this we would have seen Shane having phone conversations announcing that certain wrestlers (e.g., DDP, Buff Bagwell, The New Blood, etc.) would be among those joining his new promotion once Jericho defeated Austin. A critical part of this would be to still have Shane and Jericho being the faces to Austin/McMahon's heels in the way in which WCW/Shane were originally presented. The prospect of these new superstars coming to the WWF is a positive in fans eyes. That's also important for the longevity of the storyline because roles need to gradually change. The main event would have seen interference from Shane, Vince, Booker T, and Kurt Angle...but ultimately DDP would have come from the crowd and delivered the diamond cutter to secure Jericho's victory (similar to how Booker T actually debuted at KOTR in 2001). The next night few shows would have worked in the same way the real InVasion storyline went on...guys like Storm, Palumbo/O'haire, etc. debuted and interfered in WWF matches. The first WCW main event would have been DDP vs. Booker T in a match to determine would would face Chris Jericho in a match to determine the new, and 1st, WCW champion. I would have had Austin/Angle interfere in this match in the same manner they did with the Booker T/Bagwell match. As well as had other WCW/WWF guys fight it out. Ultimately, the ECW component of the InVasion would have played out ht same way with SummerSlam serving as the the inaugural brawl ppv. The big storyline would have also been which side is The Rock going to join. Instead of the main event being Austin/Jericho/Undertaker/Kane/Angle vs. Booker T/DDP/Dudleys/Rhyno(like InVasion)...it would have been Austin/Undertaker/ The Rock/Angle/ Big Show vs. Jericho/Booker T/DDP/Buff Bagwell/Rhyno...with Big Show turning on the WWF to join the Alliance in secure them the victory. By this point, a lot of the storylines and defections would have been pushed back by a month tor two. The InVasion was in full swing by late June, whereas here it's not really going until Mid August. At the October PPV, Kurt Angle would defect to the Alliance. Kurt would reveal the next night on Raw that he was sick of playing second fiddle to The Rock and Austin by Vince, and that Shane and WCW's new president made him an offer he simply couldn't refuse. There would be a lot of references to this new WCW president, who would be teased to be revealed at Survivor Series. Survivor Series would also feature the real vengeance Main Event with the identical undisputed title unification match, except Ric Flair would have debuted (revealed to be the WCW president) to assist Jericho with winning and becoming the first undisputed champion. I think December could have had a War Games or Hell in a Cell type of match between Team WWF vs. Team WCW. Royal Rumble would have still seen McMahon vs. Flair, HHH return and win the Rumble, etc. A lot of December 2001 and onwards would be similar to Nov 2001 and onwards in which it would have been WWE-Vince vs. WCW-Flair. One thing I never liked about the Vince/Flair storyline is that they made Flair seem like he was this kind redneck style millionaire (look at the Raw Christmas party episode), rather than how he was portrayed everywhere else the rest of his career - so that would be another tweak. Another change I think that would have been great, and would have saved Booker T, would be to have down DDP's proposed People's Champion vs People's Champion feud between The Rock and DDP. In contrast to Vince McMahon injecting the nWo to kill the WWF, Vince would cut a promo that he was going to kill WCW once and for all in the same way it had been done before...by unleashing the nWo. nWo would debut at No Way Out and do pretty much the same stuff they did anyways, proving to be a rogue faction that would ultimately align themselves with WCW. Then at WrestleMania it's WWE vs. WCW once and for all with whoever wins the most matches taking control. The card doesn't need to really change (I copied the order of the matches and somehow it works perfectly): RVD (face in the alliance) defeats Regal (or whoever) to become IC Champion: 1-0 Alliance DDP defeats Christian for EU Championship: 2-0 Alliance Maven defeats a variety of WWF and WCW wrestlers: 2-1 Alliance Angle defeats Kane: 3-1 Alliance Undertaker defeats Flair: 3-2 Alliance Edge defeats Booker T: 3-3 Tie Austin beats Hall/Nash: 4-3 WWE (this also becomes a much bigger moments because the WWF finally takes the lead) Billy/Chuck defeat a mix of teams: 4-4 Tie Rock beats Hogans: 5-4 WWF Jazz beats Trish & Lita: 5-5 Tie HHH beats Jericho 6-5 WWE wins. This doesn't really change much with the draft because Vince regained control of Raw within the first month of the draft. With a surplus of talent that Vince acquires he decides its best to split the show into 2 separate brands that will be managed by two commissioners, both being former WWF commissioners. Smackdown will be drafted and run by Mick Foley...and Raw will be drafted and run by...Shawn Michaels. Ultimately HBK has to step down as commissioner in order to face HHH, at which point Bischoff would enter the picture. What's crazy is that this booking doesn't require any different wrestlers being in the company at a different time, and all the ultimate outcomes of WWE stay the same. All it does is just rework a lot of poor intermediary points. With Rock, Austin, Undertaker, and Edge's victory's at WM 18, the WWF actually defeats the real WCW in a way that manners. WrestleMania X8 also takes on greater significance, specifically the HHH/Jericho match (which didn't really have legs to it other than the HHH/Stephanie sub-storyline) is now about WWE's White Knight (the returning HHH) defeating the man who is essentially responsible for all of this (Chris Jericho, who becomes an even bigger heel than he was in 2002). This also would have made a lot more sense among the HHH vs. Sting match in that HHH would have been the guy who ended WCW 13 years before Sting arrived, and now he was ultimately going to get to do it. |
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on May 15, 2020 21:05:06 GMT -5
Triple H ending WCW is not the right way to do the storyline. WCW should stay in business.
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Post by JokerFC on May 16, 2020 7:31:13 GMT -5
Ill use what WWE had to hand....
Benoit's injury should have been credited to the Invaders...in particular Lance Storm. It would have made him there & then. They knew he was going out so why not use it? They even have Storm take the Canadian Crippler name to mock Benoit. when Benoit returns theres a storyline waiting for him too.
Rhino should have been kept off TV until the Invasion kicked off. It didn't help his aura being a bystander for so long....he could have debuted with impact during the Invasion.
Of course Jericho should have been the one to turn @ Invasion and went on to defeat Austin @ Summerslam for the strap.
Big Show is used from the get go as well.
and lastly...FFS no Stalker storyline for DDP.
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Post by drifter on May 16, 2020 11:45:00 GMT -5
Ill use what WWE had to hand.... Benoit's injury should have been credited to the Invaders...in particular Lance Storm. It would have made him there & then. They knew he was going out so why not use it? They even have Storm take the Canadian Crippler name to mock Benoit. when Benoit returns theres a storyline waiting for him too. Rhino should have been kept off TV until the Invasion kicked off. It didn't help his aura being a bystander for so long....he could have debuted with impact during the Invasion. Of course Jericho should have been the one to turn @ Invasion and went on to defeat Austin @ Summerslam for the strap. Big Show is used from the get go as well. and lastly...FFS no Stalker storyline for DDP.Honestly, they could have still done the stalker gimmick, and made it work. The problem was, they had DDP as a stalker, because he was obsessed with Sara. It should have been, him using it as mind games, and really take Undertaker off of his game. Page uses Taker focusing more on concern for his wife, then the big picture fight of the invasion. |
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Post by keegandimitrijevic01 on May 16, 2020 17:27:35 GMT -5
The issues with The InVasion:
"Stone Cold" Steve Austin should've never turned heel at X-Seven
The Alliance downgraded the Monday Night Wars. The ECW stars like Rob Van Dam should've sided with WWE
DDP was relegated to lower mid-card status, and that feud with The Undertaker killed his credibility
There simply wasn't enough starpower at that time
How to fix The InVasion:
Either wait a year, try to buy out the contracts, or don't do it at all.
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jking1979
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Post by jking1979 on May 17, 2020 15:18:37 GMT -5
That was the real problem. They didn't establish the young talent while waiting for the legends.
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