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Post by TKO Propagandist on Jun 17, 2020 14:20:41 GMT -5
I know Punk has said he didn't care about his appearance but God damn that was part of the problem. He was the PG Era's Steve Austin that got to the top of the mountain being skinny fat. What could have been if he looked better cosmetically for Vince.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jun 17, 2020 14:22:58 GMT -5
I think the issue with Punk was that if you told him something that needed to be different he would go out of his way to do just the opposite.
So even if Vince said, "you could probably tighten that up a bit there, eh pal" in terms of his body and look, Punk would clearly do the opposite and stay that way just to piss of Vince.
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Post by LA Times on Jun 17, 2020 14:41:11 GMT -5
I think the issue with Punk was that if you told him something that needed to be different he would go out of his way to do just the opposite. So even if Vince said, "you could probably tighten that up a bit there, eh pal" in terms of his body and look, Punk would clearly do the opposite and stay that way just to piss of Vince. Did someone tell CM punk to fight in the UFC? He should've done the opposite of that. |
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mrassbillygunn
Main Eventer
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Jun 17, 2020 14:55:42 GMT -5
He had a strong natural physique. He was naturally built and didnt rely on PEDs. He was very much in shape and I dont agree with this "wrestlers have to be built like tanks" mentality. If you like bodies, get into bodybuilding and destroy your organs. Also not everyone puts on muscle as easily as others so it can be a lot harder than other people. Everyone is different and I actually always thought he had a good physique. He had strong legs and very much a strong core.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jun 17, 2020 15:01:51 GMT -5
I think him not being one of Vince's stereotypical body guys is a big part of what got him over. Especially starting of his giant run opposite of John Cena.
Saying he needed to be better in the ring is a much more fair criticism. People don't like to admit that he was hella sloppy a lot of the time.
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Post by GBGav on Jun 17, 2020 15:09:31 GMT -5
He had a strong natural physique. He was naturally built and didnt rely on PEDs. He was very much in shape and I dont agree with this "wrestlers have to be built like tanks" mentality. If you like bodies, get into bodybuilding and destroy your organs. Also not everyone puts on muscle as easily as others so it can be a lot harder than other people. Everyone is different and I actually always thought he had a good physique. He had strong legs and very much a strong core. Quite right. I saw something the other day where Jason Momoa was almost being shamed for having a bit of a dad bod, as opposed to being ripped in Aquaman. It's not healthy to have nearly zero body fat and abs need a bit of fat to protect them. Women aren't the only ones who have unrealistic body expectations. Punk is a tremendous athlete and doesn't need to be ripped to prove it. |
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Jun 17, 2020 15:13:28 GMT -5
I think him not being one of Vince's stereotypical body guys is a big part of what got him over. Especially starting of his giant run opposite of John Cena. It only got him so far. In a meeting, where people were pitching Punk as sh*tkicker who knew how to wrestle/fight. Vince said the following "He could be able to beat up everyone on the roster in a fight, but I just don't buy it." That says all we need to know about what Vince thought of Punk. I think the Triple H "skinny fat" line should have been the moment Punk realized he needed to get in better shape bodywise. |
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Jun 17, 2020 15:16:20 GMT -5
We all know wrestling should feature guys with all different types of physiques and not just body guys. BUT, if you are working for Vince McMahon and career goal is to be in the final match of the night at Wrestlemania you should care about your appearance.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jun 17, 2020 15:20:45 GMT -5
I think him not being one of Vince's stereotypical body guys is a big part of what got him over. Especially starting of his giant run opposite of John Cena. It only got him so far. In a meeting, where people were pitching Punk as sh*tkicker who knew how to wrestle/fight. Vince said the following "He could be able to beat up everyone on the roster in a fight, but I just don't buy it." That says all we need to know about what Vince thought of Punk. I think the Triple H "skinny fat" line should have been the moment Punk realized he needed to get in better shape bodywise. The deck was stacked against him by everyone in management except Vince apparently. That year where he was on top was the exception and that's why it was special. Once things went back to normal and he slid down the card, he was never going to recover. Again if he were more fine tuned in ring I think he'd be believable enough as a guy on top. He mixed in some mma moves, but he should have gone full tilt and use more. |
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Post by Markw on Jun 17, 2020 15:31:51 GMT -5
I know Punk has said he didn't care about his appearance but God damn that was part of the problem. He was the PG Era's Steve Austin that got to the top of the mountain being skinny fat. What could have been if he looked better cosmetically for Vince. Looking different was a big part of Punk's appeal. It's McMahon's stubborn unwillingness to embrace what he had, and maybe both of their attitudes, that's the issue, not Punk's body type. |
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Jun 17, 2020 15:35:29 GMT -5
It only got him so far. In a meeting, where people were pitching Punk as sh*tkicker who knew how to wrestle/fight. Vince said the following "He could be able to beat up everyone on the roster in a fight, but I just don't buy it." That says all we need to know about what Vince thought of Punk. I think the Triple H "skinny fat" line should have been the moment Punk realized he needed to get in better shape bodywise. The deck was stacked against him by everyone in management except Vince apparently. That year where he was on top was the exception and that's why it was special. Once things went back to normal and he slid down the card, he was never going to recover. Again if he were more fine tuned in ring I think he'd be believable enough as a guy on top. He mixed in some mma moves, but he should have gone full tilt and use more. I look back at all the great matches he had on pay per view during his main event run vs John, Bryan, Taker and Brock. He looked pretty believable in all them matches. He needed to be booked more as a badass if anything. As Kevin Nash once said: "badass sells, otherwise all you've got is a coward in spandex." |
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jun 17, 2020 15:37:39 GMT -5
The deck was stacked against him by everyone in management except Vince apparently. That year where he was on top was the exception and that's why it was special. Once things went back to normal and he slid down the card, he was never going to recover. Again if he were more fine tuned in ring I think he'd be believable enough as a guy on top. He mixed in some mma moves, but he should have gone full tilt and use more. I look back at all the great matches he had on pay per view during his main event run vs John, Bryan, Taker and Brock. He looked pretty believable in all them matches. He needed to be booked more as a badass if anything. As Kevin Nash once said: "badass sells, otherwise all you've got is coward in spandex." Punk was a star and I really wish he would have shot on Nash's old a**. |
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Jun 17, 2020 15:38:38 GMT -5
I know Punk has said he didn't care about his appearance but God damn that was part of the problem. He was the PG Era's Steve Austin that got to the top of the mountain being skinny fat. What could have been if he looked better cosmetically for Vince. Looking different was a big part of Punk's appeal. It's McMahon's stubborn unwillingness to embrace what he had, and maybe both of their attitudes, that's the issue, not Punk's body type. But when it comes to Vince it boils down to the fact that if you wanna be a top top guy who closes Wrestlemania (THE GUY) you need to have muscles. You mentioned stubborness but if Punk eventually bit the bullet and got in shape, things could have been different and maybe he would have got that Mania main event. |
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jun 17, 2020 15:41:33 GMT -5
Looking different was a big part of Punk's appeal. It's McMahon's stubborn unwillingness to embrace what he had, and maybe both of their attitudes, that's the issue, not Punk's body type. But when it comes to Vince it boils down to if you wanna be a top top guy who closes Wrestlemania (THE GUY) you need to have muscles. You mentioned stubborness but if Punk eventually bit the bullet and got in shape, things could have been different and maybe he would have got that Mania main event. There have always been body guys in WWE who never got their main event. Even if he got in the kind of shape you wanted him to, he still wouldn't have gotten that spot. He was the biggest star in the company and they cooled him off and made him carry the Undertaker. They were never going to see him as THE top guy. |
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Post by FLUX on Jun 17, 2020 15:41:38 GMT -5
Punk's problem was always that if Vince told Punk not to jump in a fire, Punk would cannonball into the fireplace.
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Post by Markw on Jun 17, 2020 15:42:01 GMT -5
Looking different was a big part of Punk's appeal. It's McMahon's stubborn unwillingness to embrace what he had, and maybe both of their attitudes, that's the issue, not Punk's body type. But when it comes to Vince it boils down to the fact that if you wanna be a top top guy who closes Wrestlemania (THE GUY) you need to have muscles. You mentioned stubborness but if Punk eventually bit the bullet and got in shape, things could have been different and maybe he would have got that Mania main event. Punk was always in perfectly reasonable shape though. He just doesn't look like a freak. It's McMahon's problem, Punk was one of the most entertaining, and certainly in top two most popular, active wrestlers at the time. He didn't need to do anything different, he just needed a less incompetent boss. |
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jun 17, 2020 15:44:22 GMT -5
Punk's problem was always that if Vince told Punk not to jump in a fire, Punk would cannonball into the fireplace. That was also his biggest selling point too. No one would have cared if he were yet another jag kissing Vince's a**. |
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jun 17, 2020 15:47:43 GMT -5
But when it comes to Vince it boils down to the fact that if you wanna be a top top guy who closes Wrestlemania (THE GUY) you need to have muscles. You mentioned stubborness but if Punk eventually bit the bullet and got in shape, things could have been different and maybe he would have got that Mania main event. Punk was always in perfectly reasonable shape though. He just doesn't look like a freak. It's McMahon's problem, Punk was one of the most entertaining, and certainly in top two most popular, active wrestlers at the time. He didn't need to do anything different, he just needed a less incompetent boss. Apologists will always say it was Punk's fault he never got over for a number of different reasons, but it 100% has to do with the higher-ups. WWE has a really bad history of cooling off talent that get themselves over. If Vince doesn't get his fingerprints all over something, it doesn't last. |
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Jun 17, 2020 16:00:34 GMT -5
But when it comes to Vince it boils down to if you wanna be a top top guy who closes Wrestlemania (THE GUY) you need to have muscles. You mentioned stubborness but if Punk eventually bit the bullet and got in shape, things could have been different and maybe he would have got that Mania main event. There have always been body guys in WWE who never got their main event. Even if he got in the kind of shape you wanted him to, he still wouldn't have gotten that spot. He was the biggest star in the company and they cooled him off and made him carry the Undertaker. They were never going to see him as THE top guy. Were there body guys that were as good as Punk that didn't get their due though? Vince didn't buy him as top guy because he didn't look like he could kick someone's ass. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2020 16:23:33 GMT -5
There have always been body guys in WWE who never got their main event. Even if he got in the kind of shape you wanted him to, he still wouldn't have gotten that spot. He was the biggest star in the company and they cooled him off and made him carry the Undertaker. They were never going to see him as THE top guy. Were there body guys that were as good as Punk that didn't get their due though? Vince didn't buy him as top guy because he didn't look like he could kick someone's ass. That's such a bullcrapexcuse. when you have Floyd Mayweather Jr and Conor McGregor. Are the biggest draw in combat sports. Imagine that going with talent not size. |
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