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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2020 22:49:42 GMT -5
I don't see Archer and Brodie as super hurt from not winning their title matches right off the bat. They are both still major players and got immediately established as main event caliber guys. Losing a title match doesn't mean the death of their push. It's not like they got squashed in their matches, they were very competitive matches where they came up a bit short. I definitely still see both of them as major players in the company.
That said if there is one thing you can tell from this thread already, it's that you can't please everyone. Something one person thinks they did really well, the very next person thinks was terrible. I.e.: Booking is hard. Like, really hard.
I.e. I have thoroughly enjoyed Brodie as the leader of D.O. and like the direction he's taken it. To me him losing the title match actually helped, since it forced his character to confront that right off the bat and make it work with still being the leader of the faction.
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mrassbillygunn
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Jul 23, 2011 19:35:48 GMT -5
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Jun 26, 2020 7:11:31 GMT -5
I think its terrible, when I first heard about it I thought it was going to be good old wrestling and more serious and less comedic like WWE. Kinda like ROH only upped in scale/production. Instead I get Orange Cassidy, Jungle Boy, Luchasarus....its crap. Jim Cornette is the only voice of reason out there saying what is wrong with the wrestling shows today and no one is listening. WE WANT WRESTLING BACK!!
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Post by Bandalero on Jun 26, 2020 7:11:55 GMT -5
I don't see Archer and Brodie as super hurt from not winning their title matches right off the bat. They are both still major players and got immediately established as main event caliber guys. Losing a title match doesn't mean the death of their push. It's not like they got squashed in their matches, they were very competitive matches where they came up a bit short. I definitely still see both of them as major players in the company. That said if there is one thing you can tell from this thread already, it's that you can't please everyone. Something one person thinks they did really well, the very next person thinks was terrible. I.e.: Booking is hard. Like, really hard.I.e. I have thoroughly enjoyed Brodie as the leader of D.O. and like the direction he's taken it. To me him losing the title match actually helped, since it forced his character to confront that right off the bat and make it work with still being the leader of the faction. Nope we all pretty much agree (except one guy) that Broken Matt sucks  |
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toki
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Post by toki on Jun 26, 2020 7:14:16 GMT -5
Great discussion guys! AEW also has drawn me in like no other. I've spent YEARS fast forwarding through RAW and SD, YEARS - the product has been stale for over a decade - it is not fun to watch. This AEW roster keeps me interested and entertained...except Matt Hardy ha (glad to see the majority of us agree). AEW did the right thing by giving Mox the belt when the crowds were there, he was white hot and the whole build was money. The mistake they've made is to keep it on Mox through this pandemic. No crowds to feed off of, now he's quarantined because of his wife and the WWE's social distancing practices. It has really killed any momentum he had of taking the AEW brand and growing it. What they should have done was give Jericho the belt back quickly. He's been available for the last three months and is as solid a heel champ as you'll ever get. Imagine if he gloated for the last three months, sticking the AEW title in our faces each week only to be usurped whenever the crowds were allowed back - whoever the face is would have gotten a Road Warrior style pop. Now we have Mox just cutting promos and in rushed feuds, I feel sorry for the guy, he's always in the right place at the wrong time. I know Brody Lee has fans, but what a wrong choice for the Dark Order Exalted One. He should have been paired with Jake Roberts, hell he should have formed a faction with Lance Archer and Jake! That would have been formidable. Inner Circles and Death Triangles, "too many shapes!" - Trent. Honestly, take a hot global tag team like the Lucha Bros and a solid upper-card act like PAC and throw them randomly together? Then all of them had travel restrictions due to COVID - talk about killing any momentum. This faction was a terrible idea from the start - they don't need each other. With all that said, AEW is using the veterans in the best way I've ever seen - from coaches to managers to mouth-pieces - they are all doing well and giving back to the business. A lot of those young guns on the roster should be sitting under the learning tree with those guys still around/alive. Tully's promo a few weeks ago was pure fire, showing them how it's done old school. And there in lies the biggest differentiating factor! WWE could care less about making new stars. AEW is slowly but surely molding future mega stars so I have to tip my hat to the Elite guys doing the right thing by their younger talent. On another note... I don't know what "Fyter Fest" means, I think I read somewhere this was going to be their UK PPV or something, but maybe they can turn this into their version of Clash of Champions. Have a Fyter Fest a couple times a year to fuel the top 4 PPVs. Just a thought. aew is no doubt the most fun i've had watching wrestling in years. it's all so fresh to me, and the overall roster is one of my favorites. each match has someone i like in it, if not both guys/girls so they never lose my attention. i completely agree with the mox situation, but i really like where it's lead us to (if we actually get the fyter fest match.) he's fought big (hurt), bigger, and now is his biggest competition yet. it's helped put over how tough he is, but i really want cage to be too much for him after an absolute brawl. i've been touting a monster push for cage since he showed up and winning the belt in his first big match would be great all around. cage comes off looking like the biggest threat in town, mox can take time off to tend to renee as well as making cage look even better by staying away, and it gets us out of the lackluster mox title reign. if they're hell bent on having mox as champ, bring him back when there's more of a crowd and beat cage in a hardcore match or something. originally i too was thinking brodie was gonna be jake's guy, but then who would've been the exalted one? hardy would've been worse in that role than what he is now. daniels could have worked i guess since scu was mostly working as kaz and sky anyways. member-wise, death triangle is my favorite stable, but i agree that they shouldn't have been thrown together. pac was fine on his own, as were lucha bros. 100% with you on the veterans deal. it's done wonders for everyone involved with them so far imo. fyter fest was a play on words of the failed fire festival from a while back. glad aew's didn't flop like that disaster did though. i thought the name would quickly become dated after the first use, but it's grown on me and i wouldn't mind it sticking around. |
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Post by Bandalero on Jun 26, 2020 7:15:31 GMT -5
I think its terrible, when I first heard about it I thought it was going to be good old wrestling and more serious and less comedic like WWE. Kinda like ROH only upped in scale/production. Instead I get Orange Cassidy, Jungle Boy, Luchasarus....its crap. Jim Cornette is the only voice of reason out there saying what is wrong with the wrestling shows today and no one is listening. WE WANT WRESTLING BACK!! As much as I appreciate a really well wrestled technical match, it has always been about the show. I care for the characters and want to see interesting and compelling storylines. A pure wrestling show would be the other extreme of WWE and rather boring to watch week in and week out. These guys are performers, this is a male soap opera! |
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Post by k5 on Jun 26, 2020 10:55:50 GMT -5
I think its terrible, when I first heard about it I thought it was going to be good old wrestling and more serious and less comedic like WWE. Kinda like ROH only upped in scale/production. Instead I get Orange Cassidy, Jungle Boy, Luchasarus....its crap. Jim Cornette is the only voice of reason out there saying what is wrong with the wrestling shows today and no one is listening. WE WANT WRESTLING BACK!! you know what’s crap? you not believing victims of sexual assault and trying to silence them. that’s total crap. so your opinion on anything else is void in my books, and I’m sure the majority of the members here would agree. |
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Post by hitmancmedge on Jun 26, 2020 12:31:49 GMT -5
you know what’s crap? you not believing victims of sexual assault and trying to silence them. that’s total crap. so your opinion on anything else is void in my books, and I’m sure the majority of the members here would agree. Calm down there Karen. I mean he did say he doesn’t believe victims til there is proof...I mean c’mon |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 13:35:53 GMT -5
Matt Hardy shouldn’t be main eventing anything but indy shows at this point. He doesn’t have it anymore. That’s my only real gripe from AEW.
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Post by rowdy1971 on Jun 26, 2020 13:51:52 GMT -5
The new toy has lost it's fun. I've caught a little bit here and there and when you start to push a lame ass, non-comedy joke, like Orange Cassidy as any kind of main event "talent", there is something wrong. I don't mind silly gimmicks here and there, but to make that guy a part of the final segment is a bad move. "BUT HE IS AWEZOME AND KEWL!!!!!!!" No, no he is not. AEW needs to get a little more serious. They are doing too much gaga.
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Post by k5 on Jun 26, 2020 14:36:24 GMT -5
you know what’s crap? you not believing victims of sexual assault and trying to silence them. that’s total crap. so your opinion on anything else is void in my books, and I’m sure the majority of the members here would agree. Calm down there Karen. perfectly calm. just calling a spade a spade |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 15:26:59 GMT -5
perfectly calm. just calling a spade a spade  |
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walkingturtles
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Post by walkingturtles on Jun 26, 2020 15:28:12 GMT -5
I mean he did say he doesn’t believe victims til there is proof...I mean c’mon Yeah the audacity to make sure you are actually guilty before we go radically destroying your reputation and career. |
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Post by k5 on Jun 26, 2020 15:34:09 GMT -5
I mean he did say he doesn’t believe victims til there is proof...I mean c’mon Yeah the audacity to make sure you are actually guilty before we go radically destroying your reputation and career. I’m not sure we’re arguing the same things say like Harvey Weinstein, if his accusations hadn’t been made public by his accusers it would’ve been very likely another settlement and moving on. I agree that one shouldn’t be judged solely on accusations, as with Enzo say that turned out to be a total misjudgment. I’ve been falsely accused of a crime in court. I’m just pointing out that he outright dismisses and discredits victims for going public and that’s really disturbing on a lot of levels. |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jun 26, 2020 16:10:05 GMT -5
I think its terrible, when I first heard about it I thought it was going to be good old wrestling and more serious and less comedic like WWE. Kinda like ROH only upped in scale/production. Instead I get Orange Cassidy, Jungle Boy, Luchasarus....its crap. Jim Cornette is the only voice of reason out there saying what is wrong with the wrestling shows today and no one is listening. WE WANT WRESTLING BACK!!Does pure 100% wrestling draw? You need to realise that wrestling shows must appeal to all fans which includes a mixture of comedy, characters and storylines. If WWE or AEW featured non stop wrestling with no fun, silly stuff or storylines they would be BORING. It wasn't just 30 minute repetitive matches that made wrestling the multi billion dollar giant it is today. The injection of entertainment made the business grow and drew in fans. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Jun 26, 2020 16:30:08 GMT -5
After last night's big "win" for NXT I have to say something. I'm a huge fan of AEW since the beginning (brought me back to wrestling again) but I feel they are going the way of WCW/TNA instead of being that true alternative brand. Case in point, ever since they brought in Hardy and Harper the product has become more stale and gives less time to other talent. Harper should not have been the leader of the DA. I love Adam Page, MJF, Jungle Boy, Allen, Luchasaurus, OC even the legend Omega. Heck I was hyped out about Lance Archer with Jake fricken Roberts on his side (I wish he won the TNT title). I also think Jericho even though he is a former WWE guy was a really good heel old-school champion. Moxley was a great surprise in the beginning and so was Jack Hagar but that should've been it, enough WWE guys. I'm not interested in another WWE product, I don't want to see a whole bunch of WWE guys in (except the women's division I'm fine with that is where they lacked from the start). I'm interested in seeing the talent that they brought in from the start to grow in the company. I watched AEW for them and believe guys like Page will be a future AEW champ. Does anyone feel the same way? Or is it just me. I want AEW to be successful. I agree with everything you are saying... but be careful on here. I made a similar post/ rant a month back and all I got was heat and pushback. AEW marks will come to attack soon. |
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voicesinmyhead
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Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Jun 26, 2020 16:31:43 GMT -5
I think its terrible, when I first heard about it I thought it was going to be good old wrestling and more serious and less comedic like WWE. Kinda like ROH only upped in scale/production. Instead I get Orange Cassidy, Jungle Boy, Luchasarus....its crap. Jim Cornette is the only voice of reason out there saying what is wrong with the wrestling shows today and no one is listening. WE WANT WRESTLING BACK!!Does pure 100% wrestling draw? You need to realise that wrestling shows must appeal to all fans which includes a mixture of comedy, characters and storylines. If WWE or AEW featured non stop wrestling with no fun, silly stuff or storylines they would be BORING. It wasn't just 30 minute repetitive matches that made wrestling the multi billion dollar giant it is today. The injection of entertainment made the business grow and drew in fans. New Japan draws and they are as close to a 100% wrestling product as you could get. Yes, they do have some comedy, but it is not the same as Matt Hardy in AEW or Joey Ryan anywhere. |
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Post by k5 on Jun 26, 2020 16:50:52 GMT -5
After last night's big "win" for NXT I have to say something. I'm a huge fan of AEW since the beginning (brought me back to wrestling again) but I feel they are going the way of WCW/TNA instead of being that true alternative brand. Case in point, ever since they brought in Hardy and Harper the product has become more stale and gives less time to other talent. Harper should not have been the leader of the DA. I love Adam Page, MJF, Jungle Boy, Allen, Luchasaurus, OC even the legend Omega. Heck I was hyped out about Lance Archer with Jake fricken Roberts on his side (I wish he won the TNT title). I also think Jericho even though he is a former WWE guy was a really good heel old-school champion. Moxley was a great surprise in the beginning and so was Jack Hagar but that should've been it, enough WWE guys. I'm not interested in another WWE product, I don't want to see a whole bunch of WWE guys in (except the women's division I'm fine with that is where they lacked from the start). I'm interested in seeing the talent that they brought in from the start to grow in the company. I watched AEW for them and believe guys like Page will be a future AEW champ. Does anyone feel the same way? Or is it just me. I want AEW to be successful. I agree with everything you are saying... but be careful on here. I made a similar post/ rant a month back and all I got was heat and pushback. AEW marks will come to attack soon. but we agreed with him for the most part...  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 17:13:21 GMT -5
Yeah that's not at all what happened in that thread. We've all already pretty much posted in this thread. I feel like that's using mark in a really derogatory way, which is kind of hilarious. I know I'm part of who you're talking about, which makes it even funnier, since I watch a ton of wrestling beyond just AEW.
New Japan does draw, but it draws in Japan. Culture in Japan is very different than culture in America. Are there NJPW fans in America? Of course there are, just like there are WWE fans in Japan. Overall though, I don't think a product like New Japan would actually draw in America. I really love New Japan, but I don't think it would be successful as a large scale promotion in America.
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walkingturtles
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Post by walkingturtles on Jun 26, 2020 17:14:58 GMT -5
Yeah the audacity to make sure you are actually guilty before we go radically destroying your reputation and career. I’m not sure we’re arguing the same things say like Harvey Weinstein, if his accusations hadn’t been made public by his accusers it would’ve been very likely another settlement and moving on. I agree that one shouldn’t be judged solely on accusations, as with Enzo say that turned out to be a total misjudgment. I’ve been falsely accused of a crime in court. I’m just pointing out that he outright dismisses and discredits victims for going public and that’s really disturbing on a lot of levels. I have no problem someone making accusations to the police or appropriate authorities. I have some problem with making them over Facebook and Twitter and the like. They are essentially slander if you make something of that magnitude and have no intention to pursue it. Again though, until there is actual evidence or legal proceedings and convictions, the media and companies should refrain from proceedings as well. If someone says I sexually assaulted them over twitter, no one should give that a passing notice other than, hey if you think that happened report it to the authorities. If they don’t then it’s not a situation I should want to touch or support. Clearly there is some ulterior issues if you are fine putting that person on blast but not going to the authorities. If you go to the police, then it’s a serious matter that should be investigated. Although until you are actually charged or convicted, jobs should be liable if they fire you and it was a false accusation. There’s been too much propaganda from the media on so many subjects and we have seen so many people lying in this day that we need to stop destroying people beforehand. |
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Post by k5 on Jun 26, 2020 17:37:04 GMT -5
I’m not sure we’re arguing the same things say like Harvey Weinstein, if his accusations hadn’t been made public by his accusers it would’ve been very likely another settlement and moving on. I agree that one shouldn’t be judged solely on accusations, as with Enzo say that turned out to be a total misjudgment. I’ve been falsely accused of a crime in court. I’m just pointing out that he outright dismisses and discredits victims for going public and that’s really disturbing on a lot of levels. I have no problem someone making accusations to the police or appropriate authorities. I have some problem with making them over Facebook and Twitter and the like. They are essentially slander if you make something of that magnitude and have no intention to pursue it. Again though, until there is actual evidence or legal proceedings and convictions, the media and companies should refrain from proceedings as well. If someone says I sexually assaulted them over twitter, no one should give that a passing notice other than, hey if you think that happened report it to the authorities. If they don’t then it’s not a situation I should want to touch or support. Clearly there is some ulterior issues if you are fine putting that person on blast but not going to the authorities. If you go to the police, then it’s a serious matter that should be investigated. Although until you are actually charged or convicted, jobs should be liable if they fire you and it was a false accusation. There’s been too much propaganda from the media on so many subjects and we have seen so many people lying in this day that we need to stop destroying people beforehand. in the case of Joey Ryan say, it’s all but definite that he’s guilty of the majority if not all of his accusations, he’s already acknowledged them to some degree although didn’t own total blame. he would be a very difficult one to go after in court due to lack of evidence - you feel that those that were victimized shouldn’t have come forward on social media and had him essentially exiled? I understand your perspective, but I feel like you’re rather unaware or ignoring how a lot wealthy men are treated by authorities. the victims of jeffrey Epstein were repeatedly ignored by police. by your standards the victim’s claims would have then been invalid. |
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