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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2020 14:43:22 GMT -5
I'm starting this thread in the hopes that discussion will bleed over here. A few people have some thoughts that could be elaborated on, and discussed more in-depth.
I'll start by saying that I think both members of TH2 are very talented. They're high-level athletes that clearly work very hard and enjoy giving the fans a great show. That has to be applauded.
That said, Jack Evans has some glaring errors. Namely, stalling/waiting for others to react or be in position for spots. That is something my trainers used to call us out for, constantly; if a mistake is made, or someone is not keeping up, lay the boots in. People want to suspend disbelief, and nobody would sit around and wait for an attack. I don't think he's evolved, in-ring, since Special K, which sucks, because he has the talent those like myself would do anything to have, but he isn't doing all he can. His charisma is underrated, though. All of this could be changed, though, and he'd be the complete package, IMO.
That said, his size is something that as much as I hate to admit it, makes me not want to see him wrestle bigger guys. He could be perfect, and I would never want to see him in the main event of a show. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to see him on a PPV or anything, but my own personal taste would not allow me to buy into him being in a singles title scene that isn't for smaller guys.
In terms of Angelico, I think he could be a star, especially if he adds some muscle. No, muscle isn't needed, but it helps (ie: Drew McIntyre, Nova). He's at least solid in the ring, great in the air, and good looking. I think being in TH2 holds him back, honestly. If he were to tag, he and Scorpio Sky would be a great team, I think.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2020 14:56:58 GMT -5
To be honest, even by Jack Evans own admission TH2 is holding Angelico back. Jack went on a big twitter rant not all that long ago saying that it was basically his own fault TH2 haven't been used much. Said he isn't great with coming up with ideas, etc, and basically that he wasn't ready for a bigger role, but that Angelico was ready to go and anxious to get back to being used.
It does not help that Jack lives in Mexico and that made travel difficult for quite a while.
Regarding the "glaring errors". While you're 100% right Jack stalls/waits for spots, it's definitely not fair to only apply that to Jack either. It is a very common thing with Lucha Libre style wrestling in general. For as amazing as they are, even Penta/Fenix can be guilty of that a fair amount. I know for a fair amount of people, that's what makes them dislike Lucha Libre type wrestling, but it is what it is. Also very common in more American wrestling with the tired old spot of "lets have everybody wait to catch the one person diving". Watching AAA or anything like that I just go into it thinking I'm watching an athletic ballet or something and that the goal isn't to suspend disbelief at all, but rather just watch the story unfold. Not that I watch a ton of it, usually just Triplemania, but there have been a lot of AAA cameos on MLW. I don't disagree, it takes me out of it watching AEW too, because it tends not to fit with a lot of the people they've wrestled, but it's far from only Jack that does it.
I'm very curious to see what the future holds for both of these guys. I have no knowledge as to the length of their contracts, but the men's roster is very, very full, and extremely competitive. I don't see TK just releasing them, I can't imagine their salaries were that high, and I'm guessing they're on part time contracts, but at this point I also don't see them getting an extension/new contract unless something starts to change.
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Post by K5 on Nov 2, 2020 15:22:03 GMT -5
a lot of what you're pointing out about jack speaks for the majority of cruiserweight talent that has most experience comprised in the independents. glaring examples of blatant cooperation in spots is a weekly occurrence. it's a different approach, where the audience and wrestlers are in on it together, and it's just a big appreciation of athleticism and spot deliveries.
has to be cleaned up for national wrestling, and that's the long and short of it.
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celflessness
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Post by celflessness on Nov 2, 2020 15:37:53 GMT -5
They're an interesting, quirky act that can add some variety to the tag team scene. Show up. Work some matches. Disappear for a while. Wrestling doesn't need a million main event players.
I loved Angelico in Lucha Underground. I wonder how much of that was story versus talent, as he hasn't impressed me in AEW. Jack Evans is a surprisingly charismatic, punchable heel. It's a shame they can't talk, as watching them duck and dodge bad ass babyfaces until their eventual ass-kicking would be fun.
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Only1TH2
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Post by Only1TH2 on Nov 2, 2020 16:37:21 GMT -5
Well first thing I want to say is your all right!
But I believe they could be the a top tag team if utilized correctly.
If Angelico bulked up he could be the powerhouse-esk doing the main work, while Jack does high spots and keeps it exciting. Their style isn’t perfect but I’m not looking for that, a lot of the art is gone unfortunately. I’m looking for excitement, and having a good time. These guys get you into it with their entrance which isn’t even given pyro or anything. Imagine Jack doing that flip coming out the tunnel and some pyro hits, could be great. I do agree with Jack holding Angelico back but as long as they stay a team I gotta stick with the gang. Angelico even rn could be built for a feud with Cody as a you forgot about me but I am skilled guy, and get some good “surprising” wins to build his push. They would never do that because Matt Jackson needs 1 hour of tv time every week in matches and backstage stupid segments. I can’t control their company so they will never push TH2, I do enjoy them for what they are, and maybe they will find what they need to hit a groove. I loved their covid at home video segment in BTE, but they just dropped it and never followed up like that. It’s sad honestly, wasted potential. They will get resigned though, they were day 1s.
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Post by stc13 on Nov 2, 2020 17:28:40 GMT -5
When AEW first launched, we had a lot of conversations about how you couldn't push everybod - there had to be an upper card and a lower card, and inevitably some really talented folks would end up being jobbers. AEW has really blown by my expectations in terms of making talent, finding unique stories to feature darn near everybody on the roster. I'd put TH2 in that really small group who never really got any spotlight.
I honestly would probably have preferred them in the spot Private Party got, who I see as having a lot of the same faults and strengths brought up here for TH2 (though they have age on their side). And while I'm sure there's truth to the idea that they don't pitch stories and ideas as much as others, ultimately that falls on TK and The Elite. Giving talent freedom is great. But you still need to book the show.
Beyond that, I'm not sure how to feel. Nothing I've seen in AEW has stood out to me, even though I enjoyed Angelico in LU and have heard about Evans forever without seeing a lot of him. I'm not sure where it's not clicking. I had a similar feeling about Jimmy Havoc, prior to his issues coming to light. Guy with some buzz, solid wrestler, but he just did nothing for me in AEW.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2020 17:34:39 GMT -5
Well first thing I want to say is your all right! But I believe they could be the a top tag team if utilized correctly. If Angelico bulked up he could be the powerhouse-esk doing the main work, while Jack does high spots and keeps it exciting. Their style isn’t perfect but I’m not looking for that, a lot of the art is gone unfortunately. I’m looking for excitement, and having a good time. These guys get you into it with their entrance which isn’t even given pyro or anything. Imagine Jack doing that flip coming out the tunnel and some pyro hits, could be great. I do agree with Jack holding Angelico back but as long as they stay a team I gotta stick with the gang. Angelico even rn could be built for a feud with Cody as a you forgot about me but I am skilled guy, and get some good “surprising” wins to build his push. They would never do that because Matt Jackson needs 1 hour of tv time every week in matches and backstage stupid segments. I can’t control their company so they will never push TH2, I do enjoy them for what they are, and maybe they will find what they need to hit a groove. I loved their covid at home video segment in BTE, but they just dropped it and never followed up like that. It’s sad honestly, wasted potential. They will get resigned though, they were day 1s. Sometimes, things just click with people, and you're a fan for some reason unknown to you. It's cool that you can objectively look at them as a team, and as individuals, and still be as big of a fan, while still being critical. Their entrances are great, too. I hope they stick around in AEW, as if the company ever tours, they would be an essential part of those tours, I feel. They can open shows and get the audience on their feet, and they're a big enough name to work at the top of the card, too. I also like the Razer-themed gear, except for Evans' forearm gauntlets. It definitely sets them apart. |
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Only1TH2
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Post by Only1TH2 on Nov 2, 2020 18:07:32 GMT -5
When AEW first launched, we had a lot of conversations about how you couldn't push everybod - there had to be an upper card and a lower card, and inevitably some really talented folks would end up being jobbers. AEW has really blown by my expectations in terms of making talent, finding unique stories to feature darn near everybody on the roster. I'd put TH2 in that really small group who never really got any spotlight. I honestly would probably have preferred them in the spot Private Party got, who I see as having a lot of the same faults and strengths brought up here for TH2 (though they have age on their side). And while I'm sure there's truth to the idea that they don't pitch stories and ideas as much as others, ultimately that falls on TK and The Elite. Giving talent freedom is great. But you still need to book the show. Beyond that, I'm not sure how to feel. Nothing I've seen in AEW has stood out to me, even though I enjoyed Angelico in LU and have heard about Evans forever without seeing a lot of him. I'm not sure where it's not clicking. I had a similar feeling about Jimmy Havoc, prior to his issues coming to light. Guy with some buzz, solid wrestler, but he just did nothing for me in AEW. I feel the same about Jimmy Havoc, just never did it for me. But that was more cause he looked sick(about to die sick) and creepy, he could be Abadons manager, like a James Mitchell to abyss. |
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CymruX2
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Post by CymruX2 on Nov 6, 2020 9:06:55 GMT -5
Man Jack Evans has been around for a hella long time, I remember first coming to this site (not my original account here) back in the Jakks days and seeing custom figures of him and he had a decent fan base that was 10 years ago, I feel his time has come and gone but he's a solid hand to have in training other I guess. Angelico I hadn't heard of before but seems decent.
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Post by K5 on Nov 6, 2020 12:59:01 GMT -5
Man Jack Evans has been around for a hella long time, I remember first coming to this site (not my original account here) back in the Jakks days and seeing custom figures of him and he had a decent fan base that was 10 years ago, I feel his time has come and gone but he's a solid hand to have in training other I guess. Angelico I hadn't heard of before but seems decent. first started seeing Jack 16 years ago in ROH. just insane that he's still going considering the flip bumps he was doing back then. dude is a freak |
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Only1TH2
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Post by Only1TH2 on Nov 30, 2020 5:31:22 GMT -5
You guys excited to see TH2 every week on dynamite now? The best really do rise to the top. #BetterthantheYoungBucks
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Mclovin
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Post by Mclovin on Nov 30, 2020 7:08:32 GMT -5
Angelico is one of the tallest dudes in AEW and he is probably a better mat wrestler than anybody else with loads of charisma. #AngelicoForAEWWorldChampionship
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Only1TH2
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Post by Only1TH2 on Nov 30, 2020 11:57:10 GMT -5
Tag Team and world champion yes?
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Post by Yambag Jones on Nov 30, 2020 11:58:31 GMT -5
Can we get this moved to the Banter board so it can be with the Bayley thread? lol
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toki
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Post by toki on Nov 30, 2020 16:51:19 GMT -5
Can we get this moved to the Banter board so it can be with the Bayley thread? lol let the man simp in peace 😂 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2020 19:10:08 GMT -5
They’re not my favorites but I like them. Angelico’s submission finisher rules
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Only1TH2
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Post by Only1TH2 on Nov 30, 2020 20:23:03 GMT -5
Can we get this moved to the Banter board so it can be with the Bayley thread? lol No, we can talk about the next tag team champs, finally a good young bucks feud. |
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toki
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Post by toki on Nov 30, 2020 20:52:53 GMT -5
Can we get this moved to the Banter board so it can be with the Bayley thread? lol No, we can talk about the next tag team champs, finally a good young bucks feud. give me lu angelico DAMNIT. then th2 v young bucks could be so  ing fun. bonus points for th2 and matt cross v the elite |
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Only1TH2
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Post by Only1TH2 on Nov 30, 2020 23:00:11 GMT -5
T. . . H. . . 2
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toki
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Post by toki on Nov 30, 2020 23:04:06 GMT -5
one of my favorite reddit posts regarding th2, lmfao... "Not enough recognition goes into the sheer douchebaggery of Angelicos dance. Between him and Evans constant chit talking, no matter what impressive moves they're pulling off I'm still thinking " these guys" |
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