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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 18, 2021 19:57:30 GMT -5
So this isn’t about whether Hardcore Holly should have won the WWE Title or not in his feud with Brock. I think it’s nearly unanimous with fans that Holly didn’t have “IT” as a main eventer.
However, this thread is more about his 2003 return and drop-off following his rumble match with Brock. A lot of fans seem to look back on the whole feud today as a joke, but being a teenager at the time I remember actually being into it. No, I didn’t think Holly would beat Brock in their eventual match, but his return and constant stalking of Brock every week was a fun story to 13 year old me. I enjoyed seeing Brock so paranoid every week, and the story was never really about Holly wanting the title, but wanting to break Brock’s neck as revenge. Going back and watching those old episodes of Smackdown, the fans seemed to enjoy it as well with Holly getting decent pops each week.
Now we all know the rumble match stunk, but was that really all on Holly? They legit only got 6 minutes and 30 seconds. How could any blood-match build any drama with such a short amount of time? Rumor is that HHH and HBK wanted more time for their match which meant that Brock/Holly got cut, but regardless of what happened they got no time to build a match. I don’t think the blame should be solely placed on Holly for the match being bad, but that’s all opinion.
I think what was more surprising was how quick Holly dropped back down to the low-midcard/barely above jobber status. Now I don’t think Holly was a main eventer, but I think the Brock feud proved he could be a solid midcard act who could occasionally challenge for the US Title. He got a few WWE Title shots against JBL later in the year, but that was more to keep JBL busy between PPVs. I think Holly could have been booked better as a midcarder than literally dropping him to nothing status.
Anyone else think Holly could have been booked better following his Brock feud, or was he back to where he deserved to be on the card?
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Post by The Real Valbroski on Feb 18, 2021 20:03:50 GMT -5
I enjoyed that fued a lot. I love Hardcore Holly and it was cool to see him in that spot. A US title run would have been nice. Maybe they could have done an angle with him as the champion similiar to what they did when Cena last won the belt. It would give him something significant to do and also continue to help younger talent.
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Feb 18, 2021 21:08:29 GMT -5
I was never some big Hardcore Holly fan, but think it was ridiculous that he didn't make the card for WrestleMania XX after being in a World title match on PPV two months earlier.
The extremely limited time that match was given hurt it for sure, but what made it even worse was most of it was spent in a bearhug. For a grudge match like this, they should've just had them beat the crap out of each other and made it as physical as possible considering they only had a few minutes.
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Post by Evil Abed on Feb 18, 2021 21:33:27 GMT -5
Ugh I hated it but looking at the roster at the time what were you going to do?
Giving Hardcore Holly a title shot was very indicative of Smackdowns lack of faces at the time. Undertaker was out until Mania, Benoit was being groomed for Raw, Cena had just turned face and was being built up, Angle was hurt, Eddie was feuding with Chavo, I mean what’s left?
Hardcore Holly was probably the longest tenured WWE wrestler in history, where I cant pick out a single moment in his career and say “thats his moment”. Dude was with the company for 15 years and sure held a few Tag and Hardcore titles but at no point was I ever watching a WWE show because I wanted to see Bob Spark Plug Hardcore Holly.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Feb 18, 2021 21:45:09 GMT -5
Ugh I hated it but looking at the roster at the time what were you going to do? Giving Hardcore Holly a title shot was very indicative of Smackdowns lack of faces at the time. Undertaker was out until Mania, Benoit was being groomed for Raw, Cena had just turned face and was being built up, Angle was hurt, Eddie was feuding with Chavo, I mean what’s left? Hardcore Holly was probably the longest tenured WWE wrestler in history, where I cant pick out a single moment in his career and say “thats his moment”. Dude was with the company for 15 years and sure held a few Tag and Hardcore titles but at no point was I ever watching a WWE show because I wanted to see Bob Spark Plug Hardcore Holly.
You forgot is IC Title reign.
In 1995, the 123 Kid was set to wrestle Jeff Jarrett on WWF Action Zone for the IC Title. Holly took Kid's place because Kid broke his neck again. So Bob ended up pinning Jeff Jarrett for the IC Title and took it with him to the back. The WWF then held up the title and had a rematch the following week on Action Zone. Jeff Jarrett then won back his IC Title pinning Holly.
So even though it technically didn't happen, it still technically did. Bob Holly was victorious in an IC Title match and was crowned IC Champion.
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 19, 2021 0:04:36 GMT -5
I was never some big Hardcore Holly fan, but think it was ridiculous that he didn't make the card for WrestleMania XX after being in a World title match on PPV two months earlier. The extremely limited time that match was given hurt it for sure, but what made it even worse was most of it was spent in a bearhug. For a grudge match like this, they should've just had them beat the crap out of each other and made it as physical as possible considering they only had a few minutes. The match was poorly planned from the get-go and it reminded me of the terrible booking of the HHH/Steiner match from the previous Rumble (only instead of being too long, Lesnar and Holly literally got no time at all). Like you said this should have been a physical street fight considering the build and how little time they had. Holly wrote in his book that too many people were in Lesnar’s ear at the time and warned him not to let Bob get too much offense in their match since he wasn’t seen on Brock’s level. Not sure how true this is since Bob fought Kurt 1v1 a few weeks later in the main event of a Smackdown and Kurt made him look like a million bucks (match is worth a watch if anyone is curious). If anything, that Kurt match showed Bob could have been booked as a more credible midcarder going forward. Instead, he was jobbing to Mordaci just a few months later. |
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Post by Evil Abed on Feb 19, 2021 0:15:46 GMT -5
Ugh I hated it but looking at the roster at the time what were you going to do? Giving Hardcore Holly a title shot was very indicative of Smackdowns lack of faces at the time. Undertaker was out until Mania, Benoit was being groomed for Raw, Cena had just turned face and was being built up, Angle was hurt, Eddie was feuding with Chavo, I mean what’s left? Hardcore Holly was probably the longest tenured WWE wrestler in history, where I cant pick out a single moment in his career and say “thats his moment”. Dude was with the company for 15 years and sure held a few Tag and Hardcore titles but at no point was I ever watching a WWE show because I wanted to see Bob Spark Plug Hardcore Holly. You forgot is IC Title reign. In 1995, the 123 Kid was set to wrestle Jeff Jarrett on WWF Action Zone for the IC Title. Holly took Kid's place because Kid broke his neck again. So Bob ended up pinning Jeff Jarrett for the IC Title and took it with him to the back. The WWF then held up the title and had a rematch the following week on Action Zone. Jeff Jarrett then won back his IC Title pinning Holly. So even though it technically didn't happen, it still technically did. Bob Holly was victorious in an IC Title match and was crowned IC Champion. Again we’re saying arguably his greatest accomplishment in 15 years was sorta being IC champ for a week... |
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Feb 19, 2021 1:49:04 GMT -5
He had a bullet with a name on it for Bork
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crashholly2002
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Post by crashholly2002 on Feb 19, 2021 3:04:05 GMT -5
Holly winning the title would've worked only if the Friday after the Rumble; he meets Heyman to tell him it wasn't about winning the championship, and promptly giving him the belt to salvage this angle
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Post by PJ on Feb 19, 2021 6:47:11 GMT -5
Well just looking at the two of them at that point in their careers one could certainly argue while it was fun every week with Holly stalking him once the match happened they had five and a half minutes longer than what everyone expected to happen.
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 19, 2021 9:52:28 GMT -5
Holly winning the title would've worked only if the Friday after the Rumble; he meets Heyman to tell him it wasn't about winning the championship, and promptly giving him the belt to salvage this angle Never thought Holly should have won the match (as he shouldn’t have). I just felt the match itself could have been booked more competitively than it was considering the blood-feud they had. A 6:30 match where half of it is in a bear hug was ridiculous. They should have been booked in a hardcore match with Bob getting a few big shots in before Brock ultimately beats him. And youre right that the feud was more about Bob wanting to break Brock’s neck for disrespecting him than actually winning the belt. I don’t think Holly ever once glanced at the belt during their feud, let alone try to pick it up off the ground. Fans seem to look back on the feud as a joke that Holly was fighting for the top belt when that wasn’t really the point. Nobody seriously thought he was beating Brock, but considering his “reputation” you’d have thought the match would have been booked slightly more physical. |
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Post by LA Times on Feb 19, 2021 10:03:46 GMT -5
The feud was good for what it was, but Holly was doing a stale Attitude Era gimmick so getting dropped back down to the midcard was where he belonged.
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Warriah'
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Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
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Post by Warriah' on Feb 19, 2021 10:21:15 GMT -5
I recommend watching this video, it's a really good look at this feud.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Feb 19, 2021 19:00:05 GMT -5
Holly was a veteran at this stage so it was nice to see him get a World title match on a PPV. Even though he didn't win, he still had a high profile match
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Post by jason88cubs on Feb 19, 2021 20:53:50 GMT -5
it should have been a slugfest, 11 minutes just beating and banging no dq last man standing vs Brock
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Post by K5 on Feb 19, 2021 23:51:44 GMT -5
it was the best work of his career for sure in terms of his presentation, and I think they could've gotten another few upper mid card feuds out of his momentum at the time, but the audience and overall the wwe just weren't invested in him to that level
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Post by jason88cubs on Feb 20, 2021 8:22:16 GMT -5
The surprising thing is how much I enjoyed his book. It was a good read
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Post by Dan on Feb 20, 2021 8:29:27 GMT -5
I definitely remember at the time thinking how random it was that Hardcore Holly was suddenly challenging for the WWE Championship, and found it even more bizarre when the Match at the Royal Rumble was that short (it makes sense on all levels now, but at the time we'd never really had that before). It was even weirder when following the feud he just more or less vanished into obscurity again. It was definitely a sign of things to follow that year though, with the likes of JBL and Eddie Guerrero then transitioning into Main Eventer's.
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