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Post by hbkjason on Apr 18, 2021 14:05:43 GMT -5
Hey guys, I have not done one of these for a while, but after listening to Austin's interview on Talk Is Jericho it got me thinking, what if it was Shawn Michaels that Austin ran with towards the end of 96?
We already discussed what if Bret went against Vader. However, I think had Austin Feuded with HBK it would have had a massive ripple effect on the WWF.
Of course, Sid needs a partner and so does Bret for his comeback (I could see him going against Owen and Davey). But it is Austin and HBK that gets my wheels spinning. Bret did so much for Steve to get him over. Would HBK have been willing to do the same?
I actually think he might have, sure he was out of control during this time, but he was all about having the best match on the card. Still, without that match with Bret at Survivor Series and their interaction at the Rumble and the lead into Wrestlemania. Does Stone Cold Steve Austin explode the way he did?
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Apr 18, 2021 14:13:33 GMT -5
I went to a house show in August of 1996 about a week after SummerSlam and the main event was Shawn Michaels vs. Steve Austin. So there is a chance that come fall time around Survivor Series that HBK vs. Austin may have been a thing if Bret chose not to return to the WWF.
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Post by The Brain on Apr 18, 2021 14:39:05 GMT -5
The matches/build wouldve been good but it still wouldnt come close to the greatness of Austin/Bret. Plus if he did feud with HBK during that time period we wouldn't of got this iconic imagine...  |
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Post by PJ on Apr 18, 2021 15:09:34 GMT -5
I honestly don’t think HBK does half of what Bret did for Austin and it doesn’t have nearly the impact of Bret vs Austin.
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 18, 2021 15:57:51 GMT -5
The matches/build wouldve been good but it still wouldnt come close to the greatness of Austin/Bret. Plus if he did feud with HBK during that time period we wouldn't of got this iconic imagine... This. Bret gave 100% of what he had to get Austin over. I have a hard time believing HBK gives really anything to get Austin over during that time frame. And I still feel we never got the final Bret/Austin chapter that they were clearly building towards for WM14. Austin never beat Bret 1v1, but for nearly all of 1997 hes feuding with the Heart Foundation. He looses to Bret at WM13, then goes after Pillman, Davey, and Owen before getting hurt at SummerSlam. Takes a few months off to heal, and then he comes back to beat Owen again. The next logical step was Austin finally beating Bret at WM14. I’ve always felt this was the early WM14 main event plans before everything else started going down in 1997. |
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Post by The Brain on Apr 18, 2021 16:01:54 GMT -5
The matches/build wouldve been good but it still wouldnt come close to the greatness of Austin/Bret. Plus if he did feud with HBK during that time period we wouldn't of got this iconic imagine... This. Bret gave 100% of what he had to get Austin over. I have a hard time believing HBK gives really anything to get Austin over during that time frame. And I still feel we never got the final Bret/Austin chapter that they were clearly building towards for WM14. Austin never beat Bret 1v1, but for nearly all of 1997 hes feuding with the Heart Foundation. He looses to Bret at WM13, then goes after Pillman, Davey, and Owen before getting hurt at SummerSlam. Takes a few months off to heal, and then he comes back to beat Owen again. The next logical step was Austin finally beating Bret at WM14. I’ve always felt this was the early WM14 main event plans before everything else started going down in 1997. Man how I wish we did get that match at Mania 14. Talk about an ending to an all time classic feud. |
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Post by MKSavage on Apr 18, 2021 16:33:06 GMT -5
I wonder what would have happened, Shawn was known for burying guys, I could see him try to bury Austin because Austin was given HHH spot after the MSG thing. Not to mention, from Summer 1996-summer 1997 the Austin/Bret feud was really the only interesting thing WWF had going at the time, the WWF would have been unwatchable at that time without it.
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Post by JokerFC on Apr 18, 2021 18:26:50 GMT -5
Bret was so important to Austin's rise.... Bret was contributing creatively & his in ring style was better suited for what they were trying to achieve.
I think HBK would have been good but I see it being one & done like Foley.
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Post by hbkjason on Apr 19, 2021 0:38:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies guys, makes you wonder if Stone Cold would have taken off the way he did had he not worked with Bret.
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 19, 2021 10:33:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies guys, makes you wonder if Stone Cold would have taken off the way he did had he not worked with Bret. I honestly don’t think so as I don’t see HBK agreeing to the double turn like Bret did, or willing to do it as effectively as Bret. For as much as people seem to say “Bret wouldn’t have fit in the attitude era,” I disagree 100%. To me, the Bret/Austin feud is what really kicked things into that era. Bret was so great in his role as the elder statesman of the WWF who was trying to prevent things from moving into the Attitude Era while Austin was the new guy on the block looking to kick Bret to the curb. I don’t see HBK fitting the pivotal role Bret did as HBK’s attitude and ego fit Austin far more than it did Bret. |
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Post by MKSavage on Apr 19, 2021 11:38:17 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies guys, makes you wonder if Stone Cold would have taken off the way he did had he not worked with Bret. I honestly don’t think so as I don’t see HBK agreeing to the double turn like Bret did, or willing to do it as effectively as Bret. For as much as people seem to say “Bret wouldn’t have fit in the attitude era,” I disagree 100%. To me, the Bret/Austin feud is what really kicked things into that era. Bret was so great in his role as the elder statesman of the WWF who was trying to prevent things from moving into the Attitude Era while Austin was the new guy on the block looking to kick Bret to the curb. I don’t see HBK fitting the pivotal role Bret did as HBK’s attitude and ego fit Austin far more than it did Bret. I agree, for much of 1996 and 1997, Bret vs Austin was pretty much all they had and it was great. I personally think that Bret should have dropped the belt to Austin at WM14 as the official passing of the torch. Then after that, have HBK and DX be the next feud for Austin then move to Austin vs McMahon. I could also see Bret being the guy during the Attitude Era that Vince would trot out as what a Champion should be like, not people like Austin, Foley or DX - kind of like how he tried to change Mick Foley by putting him in a suit. Then when it was time to go with the Rock as the new top guy/opponent for Austin, I could see Vince turning on Bret and teaming with the Rock as his new top guy that he thinks a champion could be like - maybe around Survivor Series 1998. Then Bret could have had a final year or two as a baby-face to finish out his career with a nice run. I would have liked to have seen a feud with Bret and the Rock, Bret and Y2J, and of course, Bret and Angle. Maybe even have Bret and Owen become a tag team in their final years to go against the new crop of talent like the New Age Outlaws, Rock & Sock Connection, the Hardy's, Edge & Christian, and the Dudley's. |
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Post by hbkjason on Apr 19, 2021 12:23:01 GMT -5
Bret and Austin is a prime example of how you can still get over even if you don't go over. As much as I love Shawn Michaels, during this time this was something he never seemed to grasp. So I do wonder just how much he would of have Steve Austin.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 12:27:00 GMT -5
Probably already been said, but yeah, heel Austin did work a lot with Michaels in '96 after HBK got the strap. I think it was mainly at non-televised events though.
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 19, 2021 12:58:09 GMT -5
I honestly don’t think so as I don’t see HBK agreeing to the double turn like Bret did, or willing to do it as effectively as Bret. For as much as people seem to say “Bret wouldn’t have fit in the attitude era,” I disagree 100%. To me, the Bret/Austin feud is what really kicked things into that era. Bret was so great in his role as the elder statesman of the WWF who was trying to prevent things from moving into the Attitude Era while Austin was the new guy on the block looking to kick Bret to the curb. I don’t see HBK fitting the pivotal role Bret did as HBK’s attitude and ego fit Austin far more than it did Bret. I agree, for much of 1996 and 1997, Bret vs Austin was pretty much all they had and it was great. I personally think that Bret should have dropped the belt to Austin at WM14 as the official passing of the torch. Then after that, have HBK and DX be the next feud for Austin then move to Austin vs McMahon. I could also see Bret being the guy during the Attitude Era that Vince would trot out as what a Champion should be like, not people like Austin, Foley or DX - kind of like how he tried to change Mick Foley by putting him in a suit. Then when it was time to go with the Rock as the new top guy/opponent for Austin, I could see Vince turning on Bret and teaming with the Rock as his new top guy that he thinks a champion could be like - maybe around Survivor Series 1998. Then Bret could have had a final year or two as a baby-face to finish out his career with a nice run. I would have liked to have seen a feud with Bret and the Rock, Bret and Y2J, and of course, Bret and Angle. Maybe even have Bret and Owen become a tag team in their final years to go against the new crop of talent like the New Age Outlaws, Rock & Sock Connection, the Hardy's, Edge & Christian, and the Dudley's. This is exactly how I’ve pictured it going in my head had Bret never left. I always felt it came down to Vince simply hating that Bret got one over on him in contract negotiations and that it wasn’t really a money issue considering he paid Tyson millions a few months later. This and Vince going with HBK over Bret (which is funny as HBK was done after WM14 as well). Bret said he wanted to work 3 more years before moving into a back stage role, but I can absolutely see him hanging in a few more years as guys like Jericho, Benoit, Angle, etc... started coming in. It would have rejuvenated both his and Owen’s careers IMO. |
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Post by MKSavage on Apr 19, 2021 14:00:04 GMT -5
I agree, for much of 1996 and 1997, Bret vs Austin was pretty much all they had and it was great. I personally think that Bret should have dropped the belt to Austin at WM14 as the official passing of the torch. Then after that, have HBK and DX be the next feud for Austin then move to Austin vs McMahon. I could also see Bret being the guy during the Attitude Era that Vince would trot out as what a Champion should be like, not people like Austin, Foley or DX - kind of like how he tried to change Mick Foley by putting him in a suit. Then when it was time to go with the Rock as the new top guy/opponent for Austin, I could see Vince turning on Bret and teaming with the Rock as his new top guy that he thinks a champion could be like - maybe around Survivor Series 1998. Then Bret could have had a final year or two as a baby-face to finish out his career with a nice run. I would have liked to have seen a feud with Bret and the Rock, Bret and Y2J, and of course, Bret and Angle. Maybe even have Bret and Owen become a tag team in their final years to go against the new crop of talent like the New Age Outlaws, Rock & Sock Connection, the Hardy's, Edge & Christian, and the Dudley's. This is exactly how I’ve pictured it going in my head had Bret never left. I always felt it came down to Vince simply hating that Bret got one over on him in contract negotiations and that it wasn’t really a money issue considering he paid Tyson millions a few months later. This and Vince going with HBK over Bret (which is funny as HBK was done after WM14 as well). Bret said he wanted to work 3 more years before moving into a back stage role, but I can absolutely see him hanging in a few more years as guys like Jericho, Benoit, Angle, etc... started coming in. It would have rejuvenated both his and Owen’s careers IMO. I always felt that it was a money issue, but not that he couldn't pay Bret but more he needed the money for other things - like Tyson. I feel Vince maybe saw the writing on the wall and wanted to go with the younger guys, and he needed the money from Bret's contract to make sure he could keep Austin, Rock, Shawn, HBK, Foley, etc. All who were younger and rising at the time. I think he probably felt it wouldn't hurt that much to lose Bret at that time, mainly cause he felt that WCW wouldn't know what to do with Bret, but also I think he feared losing the younger talent that was finally rising and would be his future. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 20, 2021 8:41:33 GMT -5
I think more proof that Austin would not have gotten over like he did had he worked with HBK is if we look at Diesel.
Bret was willing to play any role asked of him to fit a story. Look at the ‘95 Rumble. Vince wanted to get Diesel over yet booked him against the top babyface in the company. Bret, knowing fans would boo Diesel over him, played a much more aggressive character to get heat on himself.
Fast forward to WM11, and we get heel HBK against face Diesel. Despite this being the setting going into the match, it’s been well documented that HBK went into business for himself to outshine Diesel at every moment he could (he even botched the finish at the end to make Diesel look bad). If HBK wouldn’t help to get his best friend over, why would he do that for Austin?
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Post by whydontyoutellme on Apr 20, 2021 9:42:23 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies guys, makes you wonder if Stone Cold would have taken off the way he did had he not worked with Bret. I honestly don’t think so as I don’t see HBK agreeing to the double turn like Bret did, or willing to do it as effectively as Bret. For as much as people seem to say “Bret wouldn’t have fit in the attitude era,” I disagree 100%. To me, the Bret/Austin feud is what really kicked things into that era. Bret was so great in his role as the elder statesman of the WWF who was trying to prevent things from moving into the Attitude Era while Austin was the new guy on the block looking to kick Bret to the curb. I don’t see HBK fitting the pivotal role Bret did as HBK’s attitude and ego fit Austin far more than it did Bret. I agree completely about Bret fitting in - the last incarnation of Bret in WWF was right out of the attitude era. He was also a perfect foil for Austin in demeanour, though I do think that Austin and sexy boy era Michaels could have had some natural heat. Really though, would 1996 Michaels have worked at his best to help build up a guy who could conceivably threaten his position? Can't see it happening. I'd expect nothing above the level of Michaels/Mankind or Michaels/Vader, which is pretty great but not Hart/Austin great. |
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 20, 2021 11:56:27 GMT -5
It would be Michaels/Shane Douglas 1996 version. And all the momentum Austin had since KOTR 1996 would have been worthless.
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 20, 2021 12:51:04 GMT -5
If HBK/Austin happened in 1996 rather than Bret/Austin in 1996, 1997 may have been the final year of the WWF before it folded. Austin vs The Heart Foundation carried the WWF from Survivor Series 1996 to Survivor Series 1997. Sure, we had Taker and DX doing their things, but the main story for the majority of that year was Austin going after the Harts.
Let’s say Austin feuds with HBK and HBK goes over (similar to when he beat Bulldog and Mankind earlier in 1996). Austin’s momentum stalls due to HBK not getting him over like Bret did. Meanwhile, Bret returns and feuds with...who? Mankind and Taker were in a feud already. Sid? Vader? Neither of those options sounds like a draw (Bret/Vader would have been great in ‘94-96 but HBK did a ton of damage to Vader’s credibility by the time Bret returned).
Also, most importantly, Bret doesn’t have as strong a reason to “snap” and go heel like he did with Austin. Sure, they could have him lose to Sid at IYH or even pick up the Austin/Bret feud later than they did, but is it as effective if HBK already beat Austin in convincing fashion?
I honestly think the WWF may have tanked in 1997 even more than they did had Bret/Austin not happened when it did.
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Post by The Brain on Apr 20, 2021 13:08:01 GMT -5
If HBK/Austin happened in 1996 rather than Bret/Austin in 1996, 1997 may have been the final year of the WWF before it folded. Austin vs The Heart Foundation carried the WWF from Survivor Series 1996 to Survivor Series 1997. Sure, we had Taker and DX doing their things, but the main story for the majority of that year was Austin going after the Harts. Let’s say Austin feuds with HBK and HBK goes over (similar to when he beat Bulldog and Mankind earlier in 1996). Austin’s momentum stalls due to HBK not getting him over like Bret did. Meanwhile, Bret returns and feuds with...who? Mankind and Taker were in a feud already. Sid? Vader? Neither of those options sounds like a draw (Bret/Vader would have been great in ‘94-96 but HBK did a ton of damage to Vader’s credibility by the time Bret returned).
Also, most importantly, Bret doesn’t have as strong a reason to “snap” and go heel like he did with Austin. Sure, they could have him lose to Sid at IYH or even pick up the Austin/Bret feud later than they did, but is it as effective if HBK already beat Austin in convincing fashion? I honestly think the WWF may have tanked in 1997 even more than they did had Bret/Austin not happened when it did. Man you aint kidding. 25 years later and it still ticks me off how he treated em at SSlam that year |
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