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Post by CM Tusk on Apr 19, 2021 2:51:31 GMT -5
While a big chunk of people claim Jericho as their “GOAT”, he’s certainly had an interesting Wrestlemania resume. Of course he had the classic with Michaels and the great MITB matches, but the rest of his matches at wrestling’s biggest event feel kind of underwhelming in my eyes. So many potential dream matches that just weren’t as good as they should have been. Let’s look at the list:
WM 16: It could be argued here the Angle was only months into his career and was still somewhat green. At the same time you have Benoit in the match who had insanely good chemistry with Chris. This match was easily the second best match on the card and was a good match. It just felt like it could be better. The two Chris’ had more than enough talent between them to make up for where Kurt was lacking. Plus the match stipulation making the match more unpredictable just felt like all the pieces of the puzzle were in place just not put together all the way.
WM 17: Regal is one of the greatest mat wrestlers in the history of the business. Jericho is highly up there himself. It was a hot opener to what some consider the best Wrestlemania of all time. It just didn’t reach that great level that it should have. When people talk about how good this Wrestlemania is, I hardly even hear this match mentioned.
WM 18: Part of this has to do with the story and shoving Stephanie into it. Part of it has to do with the poor decision of putting this on last when you had Hogan/Rock earlier on the show. Like Orton/Triple H from Wrestlemania 25, this should have been two men that hated each other trying to put each other down. These two had a fantastic LMS match in 2000. That’s what they should have tried to recreate here.
WM 20: Actually really liked this match. The story was fun and the outcome worked. I wouldn’t consider this one underwhelming because I don’t think anyone expected more from it.
WM 25: This was so odd. Jericho has just come out of probably the best year of his career and began feuding with Mickey Rourke and the retired Ric Flair. Which resulted in a match with Piper who was ten years past his last good match, Snuka who was close to twenty past his, and Steamboat who hadn’t wrestled in about a decade and a half. In reality the good part of this match was the short stint between Steamboat and Jericho who would have a fun match the next month. These two probably should have just went one on one here but I don’t think anyone expected Steamboat to put on the show he did. While I guess this couldn’t be considered underwhelming because no one expected it to be good, it was underwhelming that Jericho wasn’t doing more.
WM 26: Is it just me or did Edge and Jericho just not have great chemistry as opponents? This had a hot build. Edge returning from injury to win the Rumble. Jericho his former partner who quickly replaced him and slandered his name. It had the heat and then fell flat. Having Jericho retain didn’t really help matters.
WM 28: A good match. A good story. But everyone was expecting this to be a classic. At the end of the day it’s one of the few bright spots from a so so Wrestlemanias. It should have been one of the best matches in the history of the big show.
WM 29: Underwhelming only because Jericho vs Ziggler should have been the move.
WM 32: Jericho vs Styles was a dream match for most for at least ten years. This was a good match. The fact that it happened already twice before this didn’t help, especially since the Fastlane match was better than this one. For some it’s the best match on a bad card. Is it the all time classic that most expected for years before it happened? Not in my opinion.
WM 33: Another dream match for years. Imagine being told in 2010 that one day Steen vs Jericho would happen at Wrestlemania? Most would lose their minds at the thought. The match finally happens after one hell of a build and one of the best turns in history, and it’s decent? I don’t think Vince’s reaction to it was too far off. I see Jericho mentioning how he was upset this was second instead of being for the Universal Championship. Lesnar vs Goldberg had the bigger match. Also a much more fun match. Jericho and Owens just didn’t have the chemistry as opponents as they did as BFFs.
At the end of the day I can’t recall another wrestler with a great body of work who has had as many underwhelming matches at Wrestlemania. Am I alone here?
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Apr 19, 2021 5:25:04 GMT -5
He had many inconsistent PPV matches throughout his career. One would often be good then the next bad. Examples, he had some good matches with X-Pac on PPV but the they had a sub par cage match. Same with Kane in the feud over coffee, their last man standing match was booooooooring whilst the one the PPV before was good. In 2002 he even wrote a blog in which he addressed the criticism of his PPV matches web.archive.org/web/20021010031640/www.chrisjericho.com/commentary.htmBut there was also guys he pretty much never had a bad match with like Benoit & Rock. Chemistry is key. |
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Post by Evil Abed on Apr 19, 2021 7:03:45 GMT -5
Sounds like the problem is those expecting 5 star matches everytime he goes out there. The only one to me that felt super underwhelming was Wrestlemania 18 with Triple H. Again probably due partly to the fact that Rock/Hogan should have main evented but... the whole Jericho/Steph thing didnt work and Jericho/Trips had better matches with the roles reversed that this one felt like a foregone conclusion from the start.
Other than that I didnt dislike any of his other matches, some were better than others, and Mania 19 with Michaels and Mania 20 with Christian are two of my faves.
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 19, 2021 7:32:16 GMT -5
Agreed his WM matches were up and down. Y2J has always been one of my favorites but it’s weird as he’s one of those guys who needs the right chemistry to “click” with someone and did t always guarantee a classic like Angle, Benoit, etc...I think fans unrealistically high expectations kinda hurt this as well.
WM16: The triple threat was actually pretty good but way too short. It was cool to see a more “technical” match in the middle of the Attitude Era. I just don’t think fans were ready for that style yet though which is why they seemed dead at points. Give this an extra 5 minutes though and it’s a classic.
WM17: Again, fun little match but was way too short. Jericho was over huge and him and Regal seemed to mesh well. Give em 5 more minutes and I think it would be as good as RVD/Regal from the next year.
WM18: I’m always going back and forth on whether this match was actually bad or just boring. Hogan/Rock definatly killed the crowd before this, and Jericho being the third wheel in this match didn’t help either. Plus we saw what these two were capable of back in 2000/2001 and this match just under delivered. These two had great chemistry at one time but post-quad injury HHH and Jericho just never seemed to click.
WM19: Best match of the night.
WM20: Great match and super underrated. They saved the “early” half of WM20 after a few stinkers opened the event.
WM21: Best MITB match IMO, but Jericho really didn’t have any stand out spots that I can remember.
WM24: In MITB again, and like at 21, I don’t really remember any spots from him.
WM25: Nobody was ever gonna pull anything decent out of Piper and Snuka at that point. The stuff with Steamboat was great, but again, way too short.
WM26: Him and Edge just didn’t seem to have chemistry that night. Boring match that’s just not memorable to me.
WM28: Like with Edge, he didn’t seem to click with Punk. Again, not bad, but did not live up to the hype.
WM29: Fandango...egh...
WM32: Again, not bad, but didn’t live up to fan expectations (didn’t help that they had fought twice before this).
WM33: Boring. Maybe neither guy was motivated after being bumped from the Universal Title scene to the midcard (and being 2nd on the show), but this was a blood feud and ended on a whimper. They needed a street fight to end this and instead we got a straight forward, regular match.
After going through this, yeah, one classic, a ton of solid but “didn’t live up to the hype” matches, and a few stinkers that I don’t care to go back and watch.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Apr 19, 2021 7:48:45 GMT -5
I really liked Jericho in WCW & in WWF ‘99 - 2000. After that I feel he became flat and only recently in AEW has he been pretty awesome again. He has a touch of “other guy in the match” syndrome, much like HHH. Hence why the main of WMX8 was so boring, both guys were the other guy in the match where as Rock/Hogan were both THEE guy in every match.
Always found his WM19 match overrated as well, at least in my world. Good wrestling in the match but I just didn’t care for the match. HBK without any edge was so disappointing when he came back, blah, that match was just ok for me. I SHOULD like it but for whatever reason it doesn’t click with me, Cant say I go back and watch it to be honest. HBK had cool trunks.
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 19, 2021 8:39:49 GMT -5
I really liked Jericho in WCW & in WWF ‘99 - 2000. After that I feel he became flat and only recently in AEW has he been pretty awesome again. He has a touch of “other guy in the match” syndrome, much like HHH. Hence why the main of WMX8 was so boring, both guys were the other guy in the match where as Rock/Hogan were both THEE guy in every match. Always found his WM19 match overrated as well, at least in my world. Good wrestling in the match but I just didn’t care for the match. HBK without any edge was so disappointing when he came back, blah, that match was just ok for me. I SHOULD like it but for whatever reason it doesn’t click with me, Cant say I go back and watch it to be honest. HBK had cool trunks. I love that WM19 match but I agree 100% that “born again christian” HBK was so bland as a character. I think the match would have been even better had HBK started showing some of his old cockiness and edge as the match went on to match Jericho’s ego. |
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Apr 19, 2021 10:56:43 GMT -5
I really liked Jericho in WCW & in WWF ‘99 - 2000. After that I feel he became flat and only recently in AEW has he been pretty awesome again. He has a touch of “other guy in the match” syndrome, much like HHH. Hence why the main of WMX8 was so boring, both guys were the other guy in the match where as Rock/Hogan were both THEE guy in every match. Always found his WM19 match overrated as well, at least in my world. Good wrestling in the match but I just didn’t care for the match. HBK without any edge was so disappointing when he came back, blah, that match was just ok for me. I SHOULD like it but for whatever reason it doesn’t click with me, Cant say I go back and watch it to be honest. HBK had cool trunks. I love that WM19 match but I agree 100% that “born again christian” HBK was so bland as a character. I think the match would have been even better had HBK started showing some of his old cockiness and edge as the match went on to match Jericho’s ego. Even in his match with HHH at Summerslam, he relaxed on the top ropes and had an arrogance still. nWo HBK was vintage heel Michaels, yea though, after that he just went flatter than old soda haha...and FAST too! |
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 19, 2021 14:02:23 GMT -5
He had many inconsistent PPV matches throughout his career. One would often be good then the next bad. Examples, he had some good matches with X-Pac on PPV but the they had a sub par cage match. Same with Kane in the feud over coffee, their last man standing match was booooooooring whilst the one the PPV before was good. In 2002 he even wrote a blog in which he addressed the criticism of his PPV matches web.archive.org/web/20021010031640/www.chrisjericho.com/commentary.htmBut there was also guys he pretty much never had a bad match with like Benoit & Rock. Chemistry is key. Can’t blame him for being upset fans were crapping on him and RVD. That was match of the night at KOTR 2002. I think a lot of the criticism around that time came following his feud with HHH. Jericho was putting on some of Austin’s best WWF matches in early 2001, then was wrestling clinics with Rock of all people at the end of 2001/early 2002. After a lackluster feud with Austin at NWO 2002, he basically became HHH’s on-again, off-again whipping both for the next three months. Their matches were far below the expectations they had set the previous two years, and I mainly blame HHH due to his matches mostly being crap around that time (though it does take two to tango). Had it not been for him being booked as an afterthought champion and HHH’s personal whipping boy, I don’t think the fans get on him like they did. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Apr 19, 2021 16:13:29 GMT -5
I never thought Jericho was really ever a "great" wrestler anyhow.
He had his five moves of doom style matches too, just like Cena had.
I am a huge Jericho fan too, but I never thought he was going to have 5 star matches. The matches he had with HBK were a combination of both men making them classics.
But I have seen a lot of stinker matches with Jericho too, not just Wrestlemania style matches.
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Post by Kill Em' All on Apr 19, 2021 21:33:19 GMT -5
I agree.
Jericho-Regal for what it was was great for the time allowed; but maybe at Backlash or somewhere they should of let them go 20 minutes in pure clinic.
Jericho's WM 18 title reign was blown; Jericho/HBK was a gorgeous match. And even if he's only got one fantastic match; this is one damn good to have.
Jericho-Edge was such let down; I felt that program never really got moving. Some people mentioned Edge was still recovering from his injury; I'll have to look back. But many claim Edge wasn't fully on beat till the Fall. Sometimes Mania is more story driven; and we see the really good match aspect of it come out at the fallout PPV.
Punk-Jericho's funny one for me. Everyone in 2011 hyped it up over oh BEST IN THE WORLD VS. BEST AT WHAT I DO. And thought it instantly was made out to be something amazing. There Extreme Rules leg of the program was light years better. But I never like thought in 2011; this IS THE THEY match. Rock/Cena Taker/HHH had my full attention that year and rightfully so.
I think if we got to see Edge/Jericho actually flesh out over 2009; we would of been in for a treat. Imagine; a Program with Brothers of Destruction and DX. that's all they would of needed. Have slowly boiling tension of ego; have won of them win the Rumble. Have another capture the World Title at the Elimination Chamber; I feel like that would of been f***** magic.
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Post by rkmo: Autonomous Meat Shield on Apr 20, 2021 14:18:03 GMT -5
The rundown for the true King of Underwhelming Mania matches:
8 appearances on WM cards, one no-show
Six singles outings, 5 in the main event spot, 4 were World Championship matches
Wasn't the leading story in one of the group's Mania matches, a meaningless six-man squash the other
Only two matches can be considered average or above
4 main event matches that are considered bombs
Another for consideration:
10 singles Mania appearances, all of which were built as marquee matchups
Six World Championship matches, four main event spots
Only two matches can be considered average quality or above
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 21, 2021 11:06:07 GMT -5
I agree. Jericho-Regal for what it was was great for the time allowed; but maybe at Backlash or somewhere they should of let them go 20 minutes in pure clinic. Jericho's WM 18 title reign was blown; Jericho/HBK was a gorgeous match. And even if he's only got one fantastic match; this is one damn good to have. Jericho-Edge was such let down; I felt that program never really got moving. Some people mentioned Edge was still recovering from his injury; I'll have to look back. But many claim Edge wasn't fully on beat till the Fall. Sometimes Mania is more story driven; and we see the really good match aspect of it come out at the fallout PPV. Punk-Jericho's funny one for me. Everyone in 2011 hyped it up over oh BEST IN THE WORLD VS. BEST AT WHAT I DO. And thought it instantly was made out to be something amazing. There Extreme Rules leg of the program was light years better. But I never like thought in 2011; this IS THE THEY match. Rock/Cena Taker/HHH had my full attention that year and rightfully so. I think if we got to see Edge/Jericho actually flesh out over 2009; we would of been in for a treat. Imagine; a Program with Brothers of Destruction and DX. that's all they would of needed. Have slowly boiling tension of ego; have won of them win the Rumble. Have another capture the World Title at the Elimination Chamber; I feel like that would of been f***** magic. Yeah from all accounts at the time Edge was still recovering from the achilles tear so he wasn’t 100% for their match. I don’t think it helped that Cena/Batista was a better match than anyone really thought it would be and that we got another classic from Taker/Shawn in the main event. Had Edge been healthy, maybe the match is more memorable, but I remember their mini feud on Smackdown in 2002 not being that memorable either. Edge and Jericho have both come off to me as performers that need the “right” opponent for a memorable match and neither could guarantee a classic every night. |
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Post by JokerFC on Apr 21, 2021 23:35:18 GMT -5
King of underwhelming matches full stop for me lads in fairness. I've always found Jericho incredibly overrated.
I like loads of his matches & he's some bona fide classics under his belt but I'm constantly confused at folks rating him too 5 ever etc.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Apr 25, 2021 20:41:33 GMT -5
Jericho and Edge have never put on a good match together so no surprise that their Mania one was bad.
Him and AJ could've been epic classic but the fact they previously fought a few weeks previous took the shine off it.
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Angusdacat
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Joined on: Jun 26, 2014 21:28:21 GMT -5
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Post by Angusdacat on Apr 25, 2021 22:34:27 GMT -5
Jericho is a weird case in general for me.
As a wrestler, he was always good but never had the "great match" consistency as guys like HBK, Beniot, Angle, etc
As a promo, he was always good but never had the charisma of those like The Rock, Austin, Cena, etc
And as a presence he couldn't carry main events in the same way that guys like Triple H, Undertaker, and even Edge later on could.
I think his biggest weakness is that he gets categorized with genuine main event talent, which he will always be "C tier" compared to when in reality Jericho should be thought of as more of an "S tier" midcard talent. His matches with guys like Rey Mysterio, Chris Beniot, The MITB ladder matches, and the like are what define him in a much brighter light for me.
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