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Post by jason88cubs on May 27, 2021 13:09:07 GMT -5
If Screwjob doesnt happen
what do you think we see the future of for The Heart Foundation?
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Post by hitmancmedge on May 27, 2021 13:16:11 GMT -5
I think Bulldog eventually goes face as was the plan the year before was for him to be an upper card babyface. Bret remains heel and probably works Austin as the first program following his title win, after that it’s anyone’s guess. Anvil probably isn’t long for the world and Pillman is still gone.
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Post by MKSavage on May 27, 2021 19:17:45 GMT -5
I think Bulldog eventually goes face as was the plan the year before was for him to be an upper card babyface. Bret remains heel and probably works Austin as the first program following his title win, after that it’s anyone’s guess. Anvil probably isn’t long for the world and Pillman is still gone. That makes sense, I could also see the Hart Foundation facing DX - who turned face not too long after WM14. The Hart Foundation could also turn on one another, or just Davey Boy. Davey Boy becomes a face and Owen and Bret become a tag team. Which would be good, as the tag team division was slowly getting better around this time and adding Bret & Owen in the mix only would have helped. Bret was looking to retire around 2000 anyway, so going out on a good run in the tag team division with Owen would have been a nice way to go. It also would have been good to see Bret work with some of the guys that came around this time: The Rock, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Mick Foley, Chris Beniot, Eddie Guerrero, etc. |
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Post by hitmancmedge on May 27, 2021 19:23:33 GMT -5
I think Bulldog eventually goes face as was the plan the year before was for him to be an upper card babyface. Bret remains heel and probably works Austin as the first program following his title win, after that it’s anyone’s guess. Anvil probably isn’t long for the world and Pillman is still gone. That makes sense, I could also see the Hart Foundation facing DX - who turned face not too long after WM14. The Hart Foundation could also turn on one another, or just Davey Boy. Davey Boy becomes a face and Owen and Bret become a tag team. Which would be good, as the tag team division was slowly getting better around this time and adding Bret & Owen in the mix only would have helped. Bret was looking to retire around 2000 anyway, so going out on a good run in the tag team division with Owen would have been a nice way to go. It also would have been good to see Bret work with some of the guys that came around this time: The Rock, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Mick Foley, Chris Beniot, Eddie Guerrero, etc. Bret potentially would have had a tough year in 98 but totally rebounded in 99 & 2000 when they got an infusion of some more wrestlers. |
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Post by hbkjason on May 28, 2021 0:48:24 GMT -5
I think Bret would have been awesome in 1998 and easily the top heel in the company (assuming the Mr Mcmahon character does not take off due to the screwjob not taking place) his anti attitude era stance and the way he could back it up in the ring would have made him an even bigger star as he went against Austin in my opinion.
It would have been awesome to see Bret Hart in 1998 go against The Rock and a more polished and confident Triple H too.
I loved the Hart Foundation in 1997, but I was so in on the rise of Austin I never truly appreciated how great Bret Hart was as a heel in this role. Even though it lasted under a year, Bret in 1997 is one of the best heels the WWF ever had in my opinion.
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rateddal
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Feb 22, 2019 21:36:45 GMT -5
Posts: 334
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Post by rateddal on May 28, 2021 5:43:30 GMT -5
The fact Bret fluctuated between huge baby face and huge heel depending on where they were at was cool as hell.
That was an awesome time.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on May 28, 2021 7:36:06 GMT -5
If you watch the Raw after In Your House Badd Blood, the fans were legit ready to cheer on the Hart Foundation. The American fans were saying, "okay, it's time to cheer Bret on again!"
They cheered for him that night, and he had to say, "Please, spare me your cheers" or something along those lines in that promo with HBK and Triple H.
Bret would have went back to being a good guy with an attitude. If Bret wasn't such a mark for himself, and be okay with probably never having a legit run as WWF Champion again, then he would have been set.
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Post by JokerFC on May 28, 2021 8:47:02 GMT -5
I think Bret would have been awesome in 1998 and easily the top heel in the company (assuming the Mr Mcmahon character does not take off due to the screwjob not taking place) his anti attitude era stance and the way he could back it up in the ring would have made him an even bigger star as he went against Austin in my opinion. It would have been awesome to see Bret Hart in 1998 go against The Rock and a more polished and confident Triple H too. I loved the Hart Foundation in 1997, but I was so in on the rise of Austin I never truly appreciated how great Bret Hart was as a heel in this role. Even though it lasted under a year, Bret in 1997 is one of the best heels the WWF ever had in my opinion. No Screwjob? No Mr McMahon.... But I agree Bret would have been a cracking heel in 98... fantastic actually. |
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Post by MKSavage on May 28, 2021 10:54:21 GMT -5
I think Bret would have been awesome in 1998 and easily the top heel in the company (assuming the Mr Mcmahon character does not take off due to the screwjob not taking place) his anti attitude era stance and the way he could back it up in the ring would have made him an even bigger star as he went against Austin in my opinion. It would have been awesome to see Bret Hart in 1998 go against The Rock and a more polished and confident Triple H too. I loved the Hart Foundation in 1997, but I was so in on the rise of Austin I never truly appreciated how great Bret Hart was as a heel in this role. Even though it lasted under a year, Bret in 1997 is one of the best heels the WWF ever had in my opinion. But I agree Bret would have been a cracking heel in 98... fantastic actually. Not necessarily, Vince was starting to get more involved at that time in late 1997. Had he continued getting involved and showing that he was the boss, and if he continued arguing with Austin in 1998, eventually the fans would have overwhelmingly booed him and the Mr. McMahon character would have been born. Though, not sure how over it would have been without the screwjob, but the character still could have been created. |
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Post by JokerFC on May 28, 2021 11:50:24 GMT -5
No Screwjob? No Mr McMahon....But I agree Bret would have been a cracking heel in 98... fantastic actually. Not necessarily, Vince was starting to get more involved at that time in late 1997. Had he continued getting involved and showing that he was the boss, and if he continued arguing with Austin in 1998, eventually the fans would have overwhelmingly booed him and the Mr. McMahon character would have been born. Though, not sure how over it would have been without the screwjob, but the character still could have been created. I'm not so sure. There isn't one of the talking heads that were involved in creative say that Vince wanted to be involved onscreen in a heel role (Ross, Cornette, Russo, Pritchard). He had to get badgered & talked into it. That severe reaction came from MSJ. Only after LONG talks with Pat Patterson did he decide to embrace it. Without the Screwjob? The fan reaction wasn't there....it was the fan reaction that created the character. They weren't even talking about it before that 🤷♂️ |
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Post by The Brain on May 28, 2021 12:04:34 GMT -5
Let em go until WM XIV in which we get Austin/Bret for the belt.
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Post by hitmancmedge on May 28, 2021 12:25:27 GMT -5
In retrospect one could argue if the screw job doesn’t happen the Wwe might now be here today, that was the jump start that gained some momentum that led to Tyson, that led to Austin/McMahon.
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Post by MKSavage on May 28, 2021 12:36:22 GMT -5
Not necessarily, Vince was starting to get more involved at that time in late 1997. Had he continued getting involved and showing that he was the boss, and if he continued arguing with Austin in 1998, eventually the fans would have overwhelmingly booed him and the Mr. McMahon character would have been born. Though, not sure how over it would have been without the screwjob, but the character still could have been created. I'm not so sure. There isn't one of the talking heads that were involved in creative say that Vince wanted to be involved onscreen in a heel role (Ross, Cornette, Russo, Pritchard). He had to get badgered & talked into it. That severe reaction came from MSJ. Only after LONG talks with Pat Patterson did he decide to embrace it. Without the Screwjob? The fan reaction wasn't there....it was the fan reaction that created the character. They weren't even talking about it before that 🤷♂️ I could have sworn Pritchard said something about Vince wanting to be a baby face on TV, with most guys in the back saying it would never work, they are going to boo the hell out of you. I could have sworn he said that that was before the Survivor Series, I could be wrong. |
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Post by JokerFC on May 28, 2021 12:38:17 GMT -5
In retrospect one could argue if the screw job doesn’t happen the Wwe might now be here today, that was the jump start that gained some momentum that led to Tyson, that led to Austin/McMahon. It's crazy important...just like Hall deciding to leave...it's one of those things that had huge ripples. Vince was a genius... creating Goldust kick-started the upturn of the wrestling business 😂😂😂 |
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Post by JokerFC on May 28, 2021 12:39:40 GMT -5
I'm not so sure. There isn't one of the talking heads that were involved in creative say that Vince wanted to be involved onscreen in a heel role (Ross, Cornette, Russo, Pritchard). He had to get badgered & talked into it. That severe reaction came from MSJ. Only after LONG talks with Pat Patterson did he decide to embrace it. Without the Screwjob? The fan reaction wasn't there....it was the fan reaction that created the character. They weren't even talking about it before that 🤷♂️ I could have sworn Pritchard said something about Vince wanting to be a baby face on TV, with most guys in the back saying it would never work, they are going to boo the hell out of you. I could have sworn he said that that was before the Survivor Series, I could be wrong. Oh He wanted to be a Babyface 100%...he wanted to be the opposite of Bischoffs character. Your right Pritchard & co told him no...you have to be a heel after the deal with Bret. Cue the discussion & badgering...there were no plans for Mr McMahon beforehand. Face Vince was a different discussion |
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Post by hitmancmedge on May 28, 2021 12:40:23 GMT -5
It’s crazy the two things people within the company (the screw job, giving Tyson that money) basically helped to save the company.
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 18, 2024 14:28:00 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2021 12:43:23 GMT -5
I have always wondered about this.
I think Bret's popularity in Canada would have taken a huge hit if it had been a clean pin fall.
I still think Shawn goes on to become the name he was and is.
Bret is interesting in this case. I see him going on to hold the tag titles with Owen and maybe a few more IC title runs, but I think that would have been his last world title.
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Post by MKSavage on May 28, 2021 15:35:09 GMT -5
It’s crazy the two things people within the company (the screw job, giving Tyson that money) basically helped to save the company. I'm not sure that had a lot to do with the company getting better ratings. They didn't start winning the war until after WM14. I think the main thing that pushed them over the edge was the Austin/McMahon feud. |
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
Posts: 3,147
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Post by Warriah' on May 30, 2021 7:22:03 GMT -5
I think the Harts would have naturally feuded with DX and Austin.
I also think they were grooming Furnas and Lefon to join.
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Post by cordless2016 on May 30, 2021 9:33:25 GMT -5
100% I believe they were building to Austin finally beating Bret at WM14 and winning the WWF Title. Austin was feuding with the Hart Foundation throughout all of 1997. He lost to Bret at WM13, then continued going after Bret and his new stable. Austin had his thing with Pillman, beat Bulldog and Owen for the tag titles, and then beat Owen twice for the IC Title. The only thing left to do was finally beat Bret and take the WWF Title.
I think Austin wins the rumble and goes on to beat Bret at WM. He then starts a feud with DX as long as HBK wasn’t hurt and we get Austin/HBK/Tyson at SummerSlam. As for the Hart Foundation, I think they start to breakup post-WM14 and Bret likely works with Foley, Rock, Shamrock, or maybe another feud with Owen or Bulldog.
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