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Post by CM Tusk on Jul 5, 2021 1:06:13 GMT -5
Bret beating Flair for the title in 92. In my hometown (where I still live) at a house show! Everything that stemmed from Vince taking a chance on a smaller guy and changing the direction of the company starts in that match. Everything that Bret as a main eventer leads to the New Generation and the end of the Golden Era, the rise of smaller guys like HBK and Owen, the New Hart Foundation, playing a part in the creation of DX, playing a major role in starting the Attitude Era helping get Stone Cold over, the Montreal Screwjob, and the creation of the Mr McMahon character. Not to mention the countless number of talent who were inspired seeing someone like Bret as the face of the company and became pro wrestlers because of it. Hogan may have been the bigger name and had bigger matches, but Bret helped usher in the wrestling boom of the 90s leading to the creation of two of the biggest characters in wrestling’s history in Stone Cold and Mr McMahon. Hogan may have helped with the boom in the 90s on the WCW with the NWO but he’s also the major reason for their downfall.
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Post by K5 on Jul 5, 2021 12:16:55 GMT -5
in some ways, inoki vs flair in Korea
you have a major star from American culture, along with a major star of Japanese culture, coming together to entertain a completely separate culture through the means of the art of professional wrestling.
in some forms, it was a display of base humanity in it's utmost, and came somewhat close to the unity that world events such as the Olympics undertake.
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Post by kennyw86v2 on Jul 5, 2021 15:59:12 GMT -5
Brock vs Roman 47. Really raised the stakes with that one, especially as it was Brock 46, Roman 0 at that point.
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Post by punksnotdead on Jul 6, 2021 11:06:06 GMT -5
As evidence by this thread, there is no such thing as the single most important match of something that has been evolving for a hundred years. We can’t even settle on the most important match of the modern WWF era.
You can’t apply singular credit to an incredibly complex equation. The thing I’ve learned the most from hearing Jeff Jarrett pull back the curtain on TNA is that success requires so many ingredients, so much luck, and perseverance. And TNA has only been around for 20 years.
Hulkamania was insanely important to modern wrestling, WrestleMania I specifically in my opinion, but the steroid trials almost bankrupted Vince. So it was as much Bret and Shawn, Mr. McMahon, then Austin, that gave birth to the peak of WWF popularity. And if Hall and Nash don’t jump, WCW never has their 83 week run. So it’s impossible not to call that Bash at the Beach match one of the most important in history, too.
There are tons of examples. Omega vs Okada at WK11 probably is the catalyst for what becomes AEW if I were to pin point a single match. But even before that, AJ Styles beating Okada at Dontaku, skyrocketing the BC for North American viewers, is just as important.
We’re going to ignore things like KVE beating Ric Flair? Ali vs Inoki? How about Moolah vs Richter if we really want to get into the modern landscape of women in wrestling? How about Paul Heyman bringing over talent from Mexico and Japan and introducing them to American television? Guys like Benoit, Jericho, Rey, Eddie, all incredibly important to wrestling history.
What if Piper isn’t the foil for Hulkamania and Rock n Wrestling? He comes after Hogan wins the title. He’s more important to wrestling history than Sheik imo. Assigning one match as the most important in wrestling history is just a matter of subjective opinion, even though certain matches (plural) can be supported with objective information.
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Post by Valbroski on Jul 6, 2021 11:18:03 GMT -5
I thought you hated Hogan?
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Post by Artie Kendall on Jul 6, 2021 11:32:21 GMT -5
AWA Super Sunday April 24, 1983
Verne Gagne dicks Hogan around way too much and finally Hogan is like "I can either go play bass for Metallica or go see Vance McManus in New York."
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Post by BoJack Hogan on Jul 7, 2021 13:11:38 GMT -5
It's tough to say, but I don't think there's a single match across all decades. There are definitely key individuals who were in the most important matches and helped shape the landscape of the next several years. It's subjective. For me it would be Hogan/Shiek because I'd have never gotten into wrestling if not for Hogan, and neither would most of that generation. It was completely different, and it led to merchandising, mainstream appeal, and these larger than life characters that just didn't have the same platform before. I personally couldn't care less about wrestling that occurred before the 80's, and much of it that occurred in the mid 2000s. Hogan/Shiek ushered in that era.
Also, I don't know why EVERY time there's a thread that highlights Hulk's importance to wrestling, several people have to say that he's a racist piece of crap, as if that devalues his contribution. Chris Benoit is still one of the 3 best wrestlers who consistently put on the best matches of the late 90's-early 2000's (Kurt Angle and Eddie Guererro are the other two). That is the statement which can be backed up. Murder/Suicide has nothing to do with that - just like Austin was THE MAN from 97-2003. That is the statement that can be backed up. Drunken wife beater doesn't change that. There should be no 'yeah, but' when we are talking about accomplishments that actually happened.
Now if we're talking about what wrestlers were fantastic people, Hogan is a dumbass who went off the deep end years ago, so he wouldn't make that list, but I don't know for sure who would aside from Titus.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Jul 7, 2021 18:05:19 GMT -5
Hard to say really, because there are some matches that you can point to and say "without this moment, none of the other moments we're discussing would even have happened" (e.g. Hogan vs Andre or Sheik) but then there are moments that propelled the business on to the point that there are still fans to remember those aforementioned moments (e.g. the Montreal Screwjob leading to Mr McMahon and Steve Austin which took wrestling to hitherto unheard of heights).
Then there are matches that are important because they influenced what wrestling is between the ropes (e.g. Savage vs Steamboat at WM, or Rey vs Eddie at Halloween Havoc '97).
Impossible to say.
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Post by Deep Figure Value on Jul 7, 2021 18:39:04 GMT -5
Everyone knows that Hulk Hogan, for better or for worse, is the most iconic figure in pro-wrestling. Why are you always trying to convince people? You're acting like he's some unsung hero living in someone else's shadow.
Sheik should have gone over. FACK the Virgil class big time jabroni raisin ball Hulk Hogan. Hack-TOOI. Camera man - ZOOM IT.
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
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Post by Warriah' on Jul 10, 2021 4:14:17 GMT -5
I don't think you can reasonably put Rock/Hogan or Warrior/Hogan as being the most important matches of all time. They're more among the greatest matches of all time due to the spectacle but they didn't shape the business in their wake.
Reasonably the 5 most important matches of all time would be:
Hogan vs. Sheik @msg NWO vs Sting, Luger and Savage @batb Bret Hart vs Steve Austin @wm13 Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels @ss97 Steve Austin vs Shawn Michaels @wm14
-The first set Hulkamania in motion and hence the wrestling boom of the 80s. -The second ignited WCW, the Monday Night Wars and the wrestling boom of the 90s. -The third set the stage for Austin to become the guy, turned him face and was the true starting point for the attitude era. -The fourth is the most talked about match in wrestling history, was responsible for pulling back the curtain on the industry. Also revealed vince at the face that runs the place and paved the way for the feud that saved the company. -Tyson's involvement gets major mainstream publicity, and Austin is officially anointed as the guy.
These matches weren't just spectacle, but shaped the direction of the entire industry. If you wanted to add another, I'd say Austin vs. Rock from Mania 17. It's important for all the wrong reasons though. Austin's heel turn was the catalyst for people losing interest in wrestling.
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Post by shanieomaniac on Jul 13, 2021 18:16:33 GMT -5
There is so dang much recency bias in this thread.
In my book, yeah, I have to agree with Lou Thesz vs. Buddy Rogers. People can argue and debate all they want about how if ____ hadn't happened or if _____ hadn't happened, the WWE never would have survived.
What about the fact that, without the disagreement over Thesz vs Rogers, the WWE probably never would have existed in the first place?
Tack on to that the fact that the true "First Match" of the WWWF never happened and, yeah. I'd have to say that Thesz vs Rogers was the most important match.
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Post by Kill Em' All on Jul 18, 2021 16:14:19 GMT -5
Hogan/Andre
For extreme wrestling breaking through further to the WWE Tag Team Ladder match at No Mercy 99-Followed by Triangle Ladder at WM2000
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Post by Mongo Bears on Jul 19, 2021 21:03:24 GMT -5
For me its Hogan/Andre. That was the larger than life unbelievable moment that sparked an entire revolution for the industry. Love or hate the guy Hogan let the way for what wrestling is today. Hogan/Andre for me as well. If it wasn’t for Hogan I would never have started watching wrestling.
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Post by Chip on Jul 20, 2021 8:11:49 GMT -5
Hogan vs Andre was the first
Austin vs Jake Roberts KOTR 96 was the 2nd
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walkingturtles
Main Eventer
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Post by walkingturtles on Jul 20, 2021 17:45:20 GMT -5
It's not a matter of who you ask but a matter of using common sense. Hogan saved wrestling in the 80's and Hogan saved wrestling again in the 90's with his heel turn. Without the nWo there is no Austin 3 16. King Of The Ring 96: June 23rd Bash At The Beach 96: July 7th LOL Safe to say the Summer of 96 reinvigorated wrestling for the huge boom it was about to enter.
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WWF Sim Fed
Superstar
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Post by WWF Sim Fed on Jul 21, 2021 6:36:08 GMT -5
It's not a matter of who you ask but a matter of using common sense. Hogan saved wrestling in the 80's and Hogan saved wrestling again in the 90's with his heel turn. Without the nWo there is no Austin 3 16. Hogan didn't save wrestling in the 80s, wrestling was doing fine in a lot of different territories. What he did was make it global. Wrestling would be going today if Hogan never joined the WWF, though, the look of professional wrestling would be different. The territories would still be around, maybe not as many, as there probably would have been some merging, but wrestling was not dead and Hogan saved it by joining the WWF. I tend to think that someone else would've filled Vince McMahon's void by now if WWF was never created. I agree territories would still be around but at some point I think someone else would've had the thought to go national. I may be wrong.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 7:34:32 GMT -5
Shawn and Bret at Montreal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2021 7:35:58 GMT -5
The Hogan/Andre match always gets put on a pedestal and I will never understand why.
Outside of the bodyslam spot, which I think Cesaro's with Big Show at 30 was better, the match itself was not good.
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Post by Deep Figure Value on Jul 21, 2021 7:40:57 GMT -5
Melina vs. Alicia Fox
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Jul 21, 2021 8:28:09 GMT -5
The Hogan/Andre match always gets put on a pedestal and I will never understand why. Outside of the bodyslam spot, which I think Cesaro's with Big Show at 30 was better, the match itself was not good. Nobody says it's a great match. It's important because it was the biggest match of the WWE's Golden Era.
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