Mclovin
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Post by Mclovin on Jul 23, 2021 15:26:30 GMT -5
Basically the DDP/Taker feud but it's Trips against every single wrestler from the Invasion. I remember the audible groans I would let out when he used to hit the pedrigree during his reign of death from 2002-2005. I was behind him as a heel. He had true working heat with me but it was still a foregone conclusion once he kicked the babyface in the gut & put that head between the legs. I started watching in 2006 so I never got the full reign of terror experience. I would have watched every PPV from that era on DVD, and as a Triple H fan I liked it all. I love long title reigns especially when it's a heel and Evolution is my favorite group of all the times. But the parts that suck is what happened to Booker T and Goldberg in 2003 and Orton's babyface run in 2004. If they would have waited until Mania 21 to have the Orton/HHH match and had Orton win the belt there for the second time (he still should have won it at SummerSlam '04 because it was great, just lose it to a babyface instead of Trips and then Trips wins it from said babyface) Orton would have been the biggest star in the business. That's the real cost of the reign of terror. Orton's failed babyface run is why he was number two to Cena. Booker T recovered in 2006, Goldberg recovered in 2016, but Orton never did. Orton has had one of the best careers ever, but if his babyface run would have been better timed he would have been THE BEST... Yeah I f*cking said it. Also I get the audible groan at the end of a match, it's how I felt every single night during the Cena years and it's how I felt when Roman beat Edge at Mania and MITB. And then when Cena came back at MITB... My level of Cena hate hasn't been this high since Backlash 2007.
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 23, 2021 15:26:40 GMT -5
Haha I can tell you this, watching the ppv unfold live, until I really listened to JR, I thought that a exactly what WAS happening. I thought Vince was turning face haha 80,000 people in Houston, Texas probably thought that until the next night on RAW because they didn't get to hear JR. Haha you're exactly right. It would be interesting to hear exactly what those attending thought. I know the next night they went out of their way to have Austin insult the crowd
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Mclovin
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Post by Mclovin on Jul 23, 2021 16:02:33 GMT -5
80,000 people in Houston, Texas probably thought that until the next night on RAW because they didn't get to hear JR. Haha you're exactly right. It would be interesting to hear exactly what those attending thought. I know the next night they went out of their way to have Austin insult the crowd Yeah I watched the April 2nd, 2001 episode of RAW a while back. It was weird, it was forced. On that level I get why fans turned on the heel turn (which makes no sense to say lmao). An Austin heel run could have been the shot in the arm 2001 WWF needed to hold on to the boom period. But it all worked out because the Ruthless Aggression Era was better than the Attitude Era ever was (90's kids punching and kicking the air right now).
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Post by Kill Em' All on Jul 23, 2021 16:09:20 GMT -5
I remember the audible groans I would let out when he used to hit the pedrigree during his reign of death from 2002-2005. I was behind him as a heel. He had true working heat with me but it was still a foregone conclusion once he kicked the babyface in the gut & put that head between the legs. I started watching in 2006 so I never got the full reign of terror experience. I would have watched every PPV from that era on DVD, and as a Triple H fan I liked it all. I love long title reigns especially when it's a heel and Evolution is my favorite group of all the times. But the parts that suck is what happened to Booker T and Goldberg in 2003 and Orton's babyface run in 2004. If they would have waited until Mania 21 to have the Orton/HHH match and had Orton win the belt there for the second time (he still should have won it at SummerSlam '04 because it was great, just lose it to a babyface instead of Trips and then Trips wins it from said babyface) Orton would have been the biggest star in the business. That's the real cost of the reign of terror. Orton's failed babyface run is why he was number two to Cena. Booker T recovered in 2006, Goldberg recovered in 2016, but Orton never did. Orton has had one of the best careers ever, but if his babyface run would have been better timed he would have been THE BEST... Yeah I f*cking said it. Also I get the audible groan at the end of a match, it's how I felt every single night during the Cena years and it's how I felt when Roman beat Edge at Mania and MITB. And then when Cena came back at MITB... My level of Cena hate hasn't been this high since Backlash 2007. That's true but off screen Randy; was total mess. I think I am fine with how things played out for Randy outside of his first run could of went to RR 05 or NYR 05
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 23, 2021 16:32:49 GMT -5
Haha you're exactly right. It would be interesting to hear exactly what those attending thought. I know the next night they went out of their way to have Austin insult the crowd Yeah I watched the April 2nd, 2001 episode of RAW a while back. It was weird, it was forced. On that level I get why fans turned on the heel turn (which makes no sense to say lmao). An Austin heel run could have been the shot in the arm 2001 WWF needed to hold on to the boom period. But it all worked out because the Ruthless Aggression Era was better than the Attitude Era ever was (90's kids punching and kicking the air right now). Yea, he became too much of a traditional heel for my taste. The best way I can describe it is that it was as if they deleted the Stone Cold save file and replaced it with a default heel save. He was more like Stunning Steve than he was Stone Cold...which was fitting because he had joined WCW. And the issue with Stone Cold turning heel specifically was that he was already a heel! He turned heels babyface and babyface heel. Its specific to him but he was one of few guys you couldn't really define as a heel or face because his character blurred that line. He was doing heel stuff but cheered as a baby face. So what do you do to turn him heel? Hey, like what you like. No argument here. As an 11 year old, I couldn't have asked for more during the Attitude Era, trust me, it was hitting me just right Haha. My personal favorite era was the early 90s, obviously. Thats what I grew up with, I'll always be fond of it but its whatever floats your boat.
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Mclovin
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Post by Mclovin on Jul 23, 2021 16:39:14 GMT -5
I started watching in 2006 so I never got the full reign of terror experience. I would have watched every PPV from that era on DVD, and as a Triple H fan I liked it all. I love long title reigns especially when it's a heel and Evolution is my favorite group of all the times. But the parts that suck is what happened to Booker T and Goldberg in 2003 and Orton's babyface run in 2004. If they would have waited until Mania 21 to have the Orton/HHH match and had Orton win the belt there for the second time (he still should have won it at SummerSlam '04 because it was great, just lose it to a babyface instead of Trips and then Trips wins it from said babyface) Orton would have been the biggest star in the business. That's the real cost of the reign of terror. Orton's failed babyface run is why he was number two to Cena. Booker T recovered in 2006, Goldberg recovered in 2016, but Orton never did. Orton has had one of the best careers ever, but if his babyface run would have been better timed he would have been THE BEST... Yeah I f*cking said it. Also I get the audible groan at the end of a match, it's how I felt every single night during the Cena years and it's how I felt when Roman beat Edge at Mania and MITB. And then when Cena came back at MITB... My level of Cena hate hasn't been this high since Backlash 2007. That's true but off screen Randy; was total mess. I think I am fine with how things played out for Randy outside of his first run could of went to RR 05 or NYR 05 Here's the thing though, as much of a mess Orton was. He was a kid. He was 25 years old. A 25 year old kid with the world in his hands is bound to do dumb sh*t. I hope I get to be the one who breaks his record for Youngest World Champion, because I'm confident in my maturity. But at the same time let me put this into context. I'm 17, that's only 7 years younger than Orton was when he won the world title. I couldn't imagine anyone in this age group having that kind of responsibility and that kind of pressure. Of course you're gonna have maturity issues. Then you throw all of the um... substances he would have been on back then, that makes everything worse duh. But by the time Orton was 28-30 he cleaned up his act for the most part. I don't even think his maturity issues he had in his 20's is what made him number two to Cena, I think it was the combination of his failed babyface run (he was over but his booking sucked) and John Cena being there. Had Cena not been there nothing would have stopped Orton from being number one. Which is the root cause of why I hate Cena, he cost me my childhood dream of Randy Orton being the biggest name in wrestling. If Cena wasn't there lets say he got fired on '02. No amount of failed babyface runs would have stopped Orton's rise, hell it might have not failed because all creative focus would have been on building Orton properly. But Orton and Cena were coming up at the exact same time. But in reality Orton has nothing to be ashamed of, he's one of the best ever. But in my head he has always been a step away from being the best, which always bothered me because he has always been one of my favorites if not my favorite. I've always believed that his rightful place is at the very top, but Mr. You Can't See Me ruined it lmao. I think an entire generation of wrestlers and wrestling fans suffered due to this, The Age of Orton would have been far better for wrestling's overall quality than the Cena era. You can't tell me I'm wrong.
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Mclovin
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Post by Mclovin on Jul 23, 2021 16:50:41 GMT -5
Yeah I watched the April 2nd, 2001 episode of RAW a while back. It was weird, it was forced. On that level I get why fans turned on the heel turn (which makes no sense to say lmao). An Austin heel run could have been the shot in the arm 2001 WWF needed to hold on to the boom period. But it all worked out because the Ruthless Aggression Era was better than the Attitude Era ever was (90's kids punching and kicking the air right now). Yea, he became too much of a traditional heel for my taste. The best way I can describe it is that it was as if they deleted the Stone Cold save file and replaced it with a default heel save. He was more like Stunning Steve than he was Stone Cold...which was fitting because he had joined WCW. And the issue with Stone Cold turning heel specifically was that he was already a heel! He turned heels babyface and babyface heel. Its specific to him but he was one of few guys you couldn't really define as a heel or face because his character blurred that line. He was doing heel stuff but cheered as a baby face. So what do you do to turn him heel? Hey, like what you like. No argument here. As an 11 year old, I couldn't have asked for more during the Attitude Era, trust me, it was hitting me just right Haha. My personal favorite era was the early 90s, obviously. Thats what I grew up with, I'll always be fond of it but its whatever floats your boat. I grew up with WWF Attitude on the N64 and tons of Attitude Era media. I remember during the RA era the internet even back then had their 90's nostalgia goggles on and Attitude Era fans were constantly complaining about the product. My whole life 90's kids have been dogging on us even though we grew up with the exact same sh*t and in many cases better versions of what the grew up with. I consider myself an "honorary 90's kid" because I have a brother over a decade older than me so I grew up with every 90's handmedowns and what not. Plus there was basically no differences in 90's and 00's culture, I would consider '98-'08 to be it's own decade independent from the years before or after it. But in the wrestling sphere I would say that the Ruthless Aggression Era is just a better Attitude Era, and if Steve Austin had lasted a few more years everyone would agree with me. Oh and back to Steve I think it would have been cool if he used the Stunning Steve theme, if you're going to make his character more like Stunning Steve and he is going to align with WCW you might as well use the theme. Also the comparison between Austin's character and a game save file is funny as hell and super true.
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Post by Kill Em' All on Jul 23, 2021 20:04:21 GMT -5
That's true but off screen Randy; was total mess. I think I am fine with how things played out for Randy outside of his first run could of went to RR 05 or NYR 05 Here's the thing though, as much of a mess Orton was. He was a kid. He was 25 years old. A 25 year old kid with the world in his hands is bound to do dumb sh*t. I hope I get to be the one who breaks his record for Youngest World Champion, because I'm confident in my maturity. But at the same time let me put this into context. I'm 17, that's only 7 years younger than Orton was when he won the world title. I couldn't imagine anyone in this age group having that kind of responsibility and that kind of pressure. Of course you're gonna have maturity issues. Then you throw all of the um... substances he would have been on back then, that makes everything worse duh. But by the time Orton was 28-30 he cleaned up his act for the most part. I don't even think his maturity issues he had in his 20's is what made him number two to Cena, I think it was the combination of his failed babyface run (he was over but his booking sucked) and John Cena being there. Had Cena not been there nothing would have stopped Orton from being number one. Which is the root cause of why I hate Cena, he cost me my childhood dream of Randy Orton being the biggest name in wrestling. If Cena wasn't there lets say he got fired on '02. No amount of failed babyface runs would have stopped Orton's rise, hell it might have not failed because all creative focus would have been on building Orton properly. But Orton and Cena were coming up at the exact same time. But in reality Orton has nothing to be ashamed of, he's one of the best ever. But in my head he has always been a step away from being the best, which always bothered me because he has always been one of my favorites if not my favorite. I've always believed that his rightful place is at the very top, but Mr. You Can't See Me ruined it lmao. I think an entire generation of wrestlers and wrestling fans suffered due to this, The Age of Orton would have been far better for wrestling's overall quality than the Cena era. You can't tell me I'm wrong. Orton to me will always be a better heel; however I enjoy his face stuff. His run in 2010 and even his babyface run in 04 could of got more mileage if done right. There's no denying Orton I even read on dirt sheets Orton was going to beat HHH at WM XX prior to the SS plan. So; a 23 yr old Orton. He was destined to be a star. And if there is a multiverse; there is one with Orton as the face of WWE without Cenas existence. I liked Cena's work always have; like any other heel loving kid of the 00's (mind you I am 3 yrs older then you ; so same generation growing up) I hated Cena. There was some issues; HBK if he was willing (he was not) should of got one more run with the belt in 07 imo. Edge/Cena should of ran to WM 22 for the title; Cena destroying Nexus some of the SuperCena stuff as a adult makes me still want to strangle someone. But any top babyface is superman in some regard. I can't see Orton as top babyface for very prolonged time. I am sure women and young dudes would belove full winged legend killer babyface. Women loved Randy especially in the 00's. We could of got more mileage; I don't think forever though. We could of got better wrestling; but Cena didn't do bad. He needed someone to supplement. But by 2011; Cena really started getting it together and filling his voids in the ring. To me the late 00's/2nd half of the RA was centered around Cena/Titsta/Edge/Orton with HHH/HBK/Jeff Hardy/Taker/Jericho even Punk rotating in at points. But those four for the majority headlined most PPVS.
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 23, 2021 22:35:20 GMT -5
Yea, he became too much of a traditional heel for my taste. The best way I can describe it is that it was as if they deleted the Stone Cold save file and replaced it with a default heel save. He was more like Stunning Steve than he was Stone Cold...which was fitting because he had joined WCW. And the issue with Stone Cold turning heel specifically was that he was already a heel! He turned heels babyface and babyface heel. Its specific to him but he was one of few guys you couldn't really define as a heel or face because his character blurred that line. He was doing heel stuff but cheered as a baby face. So what do you do to turn him heel? Hey, like what you like. No argument here. As an 11 year old, I couldn't have asked for more during the Attitude Era, trust me, it was hitting me just right Haha. My personal favorite era was the early 90s, obviously. Thats what I grew up with, I'll always be fond of it but its whatever floats your boat. I grew up with WWF Attitude on the N64 and tons of Attitude Era media. I remember during the RA era the internet even back then had their 90's nostalgia goggles on and Attitude Era fans were constantly complaining about the product. My whole life 90's kids have been dogging on us even though we grew up with the exact same sh*t and in many cases better versions of what the grew up with. I consider myself an "honorary 90's kid" because I have a brother over a decade older than me so I grew up with every 90's handmedowns and what not. Plus there was basically no differences in 90's and 00's culture, I would consider '98-'08 to be it's own decade independent from the years before or after it. But in the wrestling sphere I would say that the Ruthless Aggression Era is just a better Attitude Era, and if Steve Austin had lasted a few more years everyone would agree with me. Oh and back to Steve I think it would have been cool if he used the Stunning Steve theme, if you're going to make his character more like Stunning Steve and he is going to align with WCW you might as well use the theme. Also the comparison between Austin's character and a game save file is funny as hell and super true. Honorary 90s kid haha, that’s cool man. It’s funny you say that because I always refer to my brother as an 80’s kid that was born in the 90’s. Everything he likes is from the 80’s, I always tell him he was born in the wrong generation. It all comes full circle man, trust me. There will come a day when everyone will get older and your generation will be the main voice, you’ll all be ragging on the Attitude Era haha, you’ll see. Hang in there. I come from the early 90’s era of wrestling. There was a time when that era was revered, it all changes as people come and go. There were many teenager reasons I loved the attitude era back then haha, but even looking back on it now as an adult, it was a fun time. It’s mostly just people who grew up with it, that’s what I’m saying. People look back fondly on childhood and for wrestling fans. Obviously wrestling was a big part of our childhoods. We all think we grew up with the best stuff. You can appreciate the RA era, and I’m sure there are many people that didn’t necessarily grow up in the early 2000’s that like it just fine. It had good stuff for sure & some of the best WrestleManias. Don’t let anybody get to you, take that from an Ultimate Warrior fan 😅👍
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Mclovin
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Post by Mclovin on Jul 24, 2021 10:37:30 GMT -5
I grew up with WWF Attitude on the N64 and tons of Attitude Era media. I remember during the RA era the internet even back then had their 90's nostalgia goggles on and Attitude Era fans were constantly complaining about the product. My whole life 90's kids have been dogging on us even though we grew up with the exact same sh*t and in many cases better versions of what the grew up with. I consider myself an "honorary 90's kid" because I have a brother over a decade older than me so I grew up with every 90's handmedowns and what not. Plus there was basically no differences in 90's and 00's culture, I would consider '98-'08 to be it's own decade independent from the years before or after it. But in the wrestling sphere I would say that the Ruthless Aggression Era is just a better Attitude Era, and if Steve Austin had lasted a few more years everyone would agree with me. Oh and back to Steve I think it would have been cool if he used the Stunning Steve theme, if you're going to make his character more like Stunning Steve and he is going to align with WCW you might as well use the theme. Also the comparison between Austin's character and a game save file is funny as hell and super true. Honorary 90s kid haha, that’s cool man. It’s funny you say that because I always refer to my brother as an 80’s kid that was born in the 90’s. Everything he likes is from the 80’s, I always tell him he was born in the wrong generation. It all comes full circle man, trust me. There will come a day when everyone will get older and your generation will be the main voice, you’ll all be ragging on the Attitude Era haha, you’ll see. Hang in there. I come from the early 90’s era of wrestling. There was a time when that era was revered, it all changes as people come and go. There were many teenager reasons I loved the attitude era back then haha, but even looking back on it now as an adult, it was a fun time. It’s mostly just people who grew up with it, that’s what I’m saying. People look back fondly on childhood and for wrestling fans. Obviously wrestling was a big part of our childhoods. We all think we grew up with the best stuff. You can appreciate the RA era, and I’m sure there are many people that didn’t necessarily grow up in the early 2000’s that like it just fine. It had good stuff for sure & some of the best WrestleManias. Don’t let anybody get to you, take that from an Ultimate Warrior fan 😅👍 I grew up with a lot of New Gen and Attitude Era stuff too. Many of the stars of the Ruthless Aggression Era were around back then. For instance my favorite wrestlers growing up were Shawn, Triple H, Taker, Edge, and Jeff Hardy. I kinda rag on the Attitude Era for fun because I do think it is a little overrated due to nostalgia. There are two different parts of the Attitude Era ('97-'99 and '99-'02) and I very much prefer the second half. I think the mid-card was a little bad before Edge, Christian, The Hardy Boyz, The Dudley Boyz, Kurt Angle, and The Radicals were around. Also the biggest issue of the entire Attitude Era post Mania 14, there was no Shawn Michaels. He didn't wrestle, I think that hurts the Attitude Era. It's a shame that the man who built the Attitude Era couldn't be there for it's peak in an in-ring role. And even then I think that the stuff that was good in the Attitude Era was great in the Ruthless Aggression Era. I definitely understand the power of nostalgia, but even then I think this is an objective truth. When I'm bored I'll throw on a random Attitude Era PPV, it's always a good watch even during the early years when the in-ring work wasn't at it's best. Oh and I'll give you this one, the 1992 Royal Rumble Match is the best one... You're welcome, and this is coming from a Royal Rumble 2007 superfan lmao. I think the RA WrestleManias are the best. The only Attitude Era Manias I really like are 14 and X7. I thin 15, 2000, and X8 are kinda lame... We'll X8 is alright. Every single RA Era mania is a great one from 19 to 24, they're all so good that I don't have a favorite out of the group. I love the entire aesthetic of the Attitude and Ruthless Aggression Era, every show looked cool. In my opinion the only bad parts of the Ruthless Aggression Era was the John Cena super mega push, some parts of Triple H's reign of terror, and the at times sh*tty tag team roster. I think the Ruthless Aggression Era would have been much more beloved by the 90's kids if Steve Austin could have lasted longer. He left a month into the RA Era, came back 8 months later, had two matches, and then retired. If he had made it five more years the Ruthless Aggression Era would be a whole different ballgame. And about the Warrior, I'm a Rick Rude fan so I legally can't like Warrior. SummerSlam '90 should have been Rude's big night. But I can say one good thing about Warrior, the Mania 6 match is f*cking awesome.
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Post by The Sexy Psychotic on Jul 25, 2021 4:00:43 GMT -5
The initial plan was Trips/Austin at ManiaX8, however when he got injured that ed it up. That whole time seems to have been super week-to-week in terms of writing. I believe SummerSlam would have been Austin/Benoit for the title, and maybe you get Jericho/Trips too. Thankfully though Trips was injured, really was the breakout for both Angle and Edge!
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 25, 2021 14:54:41 GMT -5
Basically the DDP/Taker feud but it's Trips against every single wrestler from the Invasion. I remember the audible groans I would let out when he used to hit the pedrigree during his reign of death from 2002-2005. I was behind him as a heel. He had true working heat with me but it was still a foregone conclusion once he kicked the babyface in the gut & put that head between the legs. Most devastating finishing move ever. Just ask Booker T. Hunter hit that thing on him and didn’t pin him until the next day…and still got an easy 3 for the win.
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 25, 2021 15:46:58 GMT -5
I remember the audible groans I would let out when he used to hit the pedrigree during his reign of death from 2002-2005. I was behind him as a heel. He had true working heat with me but it was still a foregone conclusion once he kicked the babyface in the gut & put that head between the legs. Most devastating finishing move ever. Just ask Booker T. Hunter hit that thing on him and didn’t pin him until the next day…and still got an easy 3 for the win. Hahaha! Didn’t pin him until the next day. I think Bruce Prichard made every excuse in the book as to why that wasn’t a direct burial of Booker T. Like it’s not understood in wrestling, when you crawl over slowly after a finisher, the guys gonna kick out. I remember watching that like it was yesterday, every wrestling bone in my body told me, wasn’t he supposed to kick out!?
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 25, 2021 18:58:40 GMT -5
Most devastating finishing move ever. Just ask Booker T. Hunter hit that thing on him and didn’t pin him until the next day…and still got an easy 3 for the win. Hahaha! Didn’t pin him until the next day. I think Bruce Prichard made every excuse in the book as to why that wasn’t a direct burial of Booker T. Like it’s not understood in wrestling, when you crawl over slowly after a finisher, the guys gonna kick out. I remember watching that like it was yesterday, every wrestling bone in my body told me, wasn’t he supposed to kick out!? I remember a lot of fans thought it was a botch at first, or maybe Booker was legit injured and they called an audible…sadly we all knew neither was the case by the next night.
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 25, 2021 19:02:49 GMT -5
Hahaha! Didn’t pin him until the next day. I think Bruce Prichard made every excuse in the book as to why that wasn’t a direct burial of Booker T. Like it’s not understood in wrestling, when you crawl over slowly after a finisher, the guys gonna kick out. I remember watching that like it was yesterday, every wrestling bone in my body told me, wasn’t he supposed to kick out!? I remember a lot of fans thought it was a botch at first, or maybe Booker was legit injured and they called an audible…sadly we all knew neither was the case by the next night. Haha right, Exactly! I remember just being on autopilot and waiting for the kick out, like I would have bet anything, yes, I have watched enough wrestling to know, Booker is kicking out here. And when he didn’t I felt like wrestling broke haha. I remember looking at my brother and being like, did he just get pinned from the pedigree HHH hit like 20 minutes ago or did I miss something?? And I couldn’t rewind it or anything so I remember when we got the WM19 dvd it was one of the first things we looked at and it was beyond long, WAY too much time passes. Like Jesus, is the pedigree now on par with a blast from a tank??
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