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Post by Kill Em' All on Jul 20, 2021 17:27:25 GMT -5
When would these two boil over; and with this ongoing how much would this change the federations main stories running to Mania 18. Along with how a Invasion angle and not Invasion angle may impact the execution of it
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Post by jason88cubs on Jul 20, 2021 20:24:29 GMT -5
wasn't hhh suppose to lead the invasion?
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Post by Kill Em' All on Jul 20, 2021 22:28:30 GMT -5
wasn't hhh suppose to lead the invasion? I heard for team WWF; be the big savior? That or I heard him and Austin boil over as quick as SummerSlam |
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Post by The Brain on Jul 21, 2021 0:06:06 GMT -5
Gotta think these two would be the main event of SSlam that year. Man talk about a flop if it did happen. Austin as heel and Trips as baby?  |
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Jul 21, 2021 0:25:10 GMT -5
Hunter would have been bulletproof during the Invasion. Imagine how many Alliance guys would have been pedigreed & pinned clean in the middle.
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Post by rkfastmo on Jul 21, 2021 0:29:13 GMT -5
Hunter would have been bulletproof during the Invasion. Imagine how many Alliance guys would have been pedigreed & pinned clean in the middle. Answer: ALL OF THEM |
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Post by Eugene69 on Jul 21, 2021 12:27:44 GMT -5
I remember reading back then that they were going to wait awhile for the invasion angle. After hhh got hurt that's when Lance storm showed up as the first guy invaded. If hhh wouldn't have got hurt they probably would have had him and stone cold feud at summerslam and all through the fall until the big name wcw guys were freed up.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 22, 2021 23:03:21 GMT -5
At the time it was reported Austin would still turn heel and lead the Alliance while HHH was the face of team WWF. When he got hurt, Angle slotted into that role. Had HHH not been hurt, who knows where that leaves Angle but that face run was huge for Kurt and helped legitimize him as a top guy.
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Post by Kill Em' All on Jul 23, 2021 2:29:47 GMT -5
I think we lucked out; I liked the store nature of Austin-HHH; not my fav matches
to me that feud had maybe one more match out of it; that was HIC. Not fan of the Invasion angle other then the video packages and what it did for Angle
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 23, 2021 9:28:13 GMT -5
I was kinda getting turned off to WWF with the 2 man power trip. Austin as a heel was like watching a show without Stone Cold at that time, it felt so soulless.
I did enjoy the Invasion angle though because at that time, the prospect of what could happen week to week always kept me hooked, plus I liked ECW and they were well represented. They ruined DDP though and he was a favorite from WCW of mine.
Had Vince never bought WCW, I think the HHH/ Austin feud would have gone to Vengeance. WWE liked to have a feud that tied into the PPV name, Austin & HHH were already losing all their title belts and the last would have been Austin’s WWF title, which would have turned them on each other for the PPV. I don’t think that feud was going to make it to Summerslam.
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Post by Mclovin on Jul 23, 2021 9:40:30 GMT -5
Hunter would have been bulletproof during the Invasion. Imagine how many Alliance guys would have been pedigreed & pinned clean in the middle. Basically the DDP/Taker feud but it's Trips against every single wrestler from the Invasion. |
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Post by Mclovin on Jul 23, 2021 9:45:54 GMT -5
I was kinda getting turned off to WWF with the 2 man power trip. Austin as a heel was like watching a show without Stone Cold at that time, it felt so soulless. I did enjoy the Invasion angle though because at that time, the prospect of what could happen week to week always kept me hooked, plus I liked ECW and they were well represented. They ruined DDP though and he was a favorite from WCW of mine. Had Vince never bought WCW, I think the HHH/ Austin feud would have gone to Vengeance. WWE liked to have a feud that tied into the PPV name, Austin & HHH were already losing all their title belts and the last would have been Austin’s WWF title, which would have turned them on each other for the PPV. I don’t think that feud was going to make it to Summerslam. I wasn't watching in 2001, wasn't even alive. But this has always kinda boggled me. The Stone Cold character at it's core is a heel. I love the paranoid psychotic ruthless heel Austin character. I see it as a hyped up version of the pre-Mania 13 heel Austin, which is my favorite version of the character. I think the 2001 heel turn was great at times, but at the same time I see how longtime fans at the time would have hated it. Also Vengeance 2001 was in December, not it's usual July slot that it would have from '02 onwards. |
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Post by Mclovin on Jul 23, 2021 9:48:56 GMT -5
I think we lucked out; I liked the store nature of Austin-HHH; not my fav matches to me that feud had maybe one more match out of it; that was HIC. Not fan of the Invasion angle other then the video packages and what it did for Angle Triple H tearing his quad benefitted him long term. When he came back he was a super-popular babyface (which might not have happened had he just turned face on Austin, fans would side with Austin) and when he came back he was built like a tank even more so than before. '02 Triple H was built different. |
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 23, 2021 10:29:42 GMT -5
I was kinda getting turned off to WWF with the 2 man power trip. Austin as a heel was like watching a show without Stone Cold at that time, it felt so soulless. I did enjoy the Invasion angle though because at that time, the prospect of what could happen week to week always kept me hooked, plus I liked ECW and they were well represented. They ruined DDP though and he was a favorite from WCW of mine. Had Vince never bought WCW, I think the HHH/ Austin feud would have gone to Vengeance. WWE liked to have a feud that tied into the PPV name, Austin & HHH were already losing all their title belts and the last would have been Austin’s WWF title, which would have turned them on each other for the PPV. I don’t think that feud was going to make it to Summerslam. I wasn't watching in 2001, wasn't even alive. But this has always kinda boggled me. The Stone Cold character at it's core is a heel. I love the paranoid psychotic ruthless heel Austin character. I see it as a hyped up version of the pre-Mania 13 heel Austin, which is my favorite version of the character. I think the 2001 heel turn was great at times, but at the same time I see how longtime fans at the time would have hated it. Also Vengeance 2001 was in December, not it's usual July slot that it would have from '02 onwards. Which PPV was Invasion supposed to be? That’s the one I mean haha Fully Loaded maybe? Here’s the thing for me, Heel Austin would have been an interesting change of pace at that time. Austin wasn’t stale IMO, but I can see how they may have seen running out of road ahead. I just would have made him more like the 1996 version, the fans may still cheer him, but that’s fine, he just needs to intensify his character. My thing is this, they turned him heel because they were afraid he was gonna be boo’d due to being stale. If so, then they would have boo’d him anyway haha. Just play into it. Joining Vince could have been something even he wasn’t comfortable with, but did because of his paranoia. This would have made him unlikable but also set him up to eventually turn on Vince and be himself again. The whole hugging Vince, it was entertaining, but it was the most damning thing to the Stone Cold character. He was never the same for me after that. It was character damning. It is what it is, it’s wrestling, I know WHY they do stuff like that, and I almost think of it as a separate universe Stone Cold haha, but I really hate the thought of somebody reading about the Stone Cold character and eventually they get to a point where he joins Vince….like, ugh why haha. I wish they had just turned up the ruthlessness. Beat up Lita like they did, join Vince, do all of that. But don’t make him turn into a coward. Stone Cold ‘96 was a perfect template |
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Post by Mclovin on Jul 23, 2021 10:58:29 GMT -5
I wasn't watching in 2001, wasn't even alive. But this has always kinda boggled me. The Stone Cold character at it's core is a heel. I love the paranoid psychotic ruthless heel Austin character. I see it as a hyped up version of the pre-Mania 13 heel Austin, which is my favorite version of the character. I think the 2001 heel turn was great at times, but at the same time I see how longtime fans at the time would have hated it. Also Vengeance 2001 was in December, not it's usual July slot that it would have from '02 onwards. Which PPV was Invasion supposed to be? That’s the one I mean haha Fully Loaded maybe? Here’s the thing for me, Heel Austin would have been an interesting change of pace at that time. Austin wasn’t stale IMO, but I can see how they may have seen running out of road ahead. I just would have made him more like the 1996 version, the fans may still cheer him, but that’s fine, he just needs to intensify his character. My thing is this, they turned him heel because they were afraid he was gonna be boo’d due to being stale. If so, then they would have boo’d him anyway haha. Just play into it. Joining Vince could have been something even he wasn’t comfortable with, but did because of his paranoia. This would have made him unlikable but also set him up to eventually turn on Vince and be himself again. The whole hugging Vince, it was entertaining, but it was the most damning thing to the Stone Cold character. He was never the same for me after that. It was character damning. It is what it is, it’s wrestling, I know WHY they do stuff like that, and I almost think of it as a separate universe Stone Cold haha, but I really hate the thought of somebody reading about the Stone Cold character and eventually they get to a point where he joins Vince….like, ugh why haha. I wish they had just turned up the ruthlessness. Beat up Lita like they did, join Vince, do all of that. But don’t make him turn into a coward. Stone Cold ‘96 was a perfect template I think that cowardly Austin works when he's WWF Champion, because he has to keep the belt. I loved the psychology of psychotic paranoid cowardly Champion Austin. I love the dynamic of a heel Champion that's willing to do anything to stay Champion. When he was heel Champ in 2001 that was great, also I loved his heel theme. He should have never been with Vince, and he shouldn't have joined the Invasion. Why would he join WCW? Why would he align with Vince? Both made his life a living hell (one in real life, the other in kayfabe). He should have been independent, DTA don't trust anybody. He could have affiliated with Paul Heyman and ECW, but not WWF or WCW. If the Invasion never happened the Invasion PPV would have most likely been Fully Loaded, as it was the July PPV for the previous three years. Austin was stale in his own head, and that's what truly matters. Austin could have never changed at all for a thousand years and people would still love it, it's been 25 years and people still love him. But if you are tired of what you're doing, you gotta change it up. I think that Austin's 2001 heel turn was one or two things away from pure greatness. If the character was a little more true to the base of itself (96 Austin) it would have been better. But it has to at the same time be different. I think the paranoid part of the character was what it needed, turn that part all the way up. Don't align with anybody, because DTA is the base of Stone Cold. |
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 23, 2021 11:17:55 GMT -5
Which PPV was Invasion supposed to be? That’s the one I mean haha Fully Loaded maybe? Here’s the thing for me, Heel Austin would have been an interesting change of pace at that time. Austin wasn’t stale IMO, but I can see how they may have seen running out of road ahead. I just would have made him more like the 1996 version, the fans may still cheer him, but that’s fine, he just needs to intensify his character. My thing is this, they turned him heel because they were afraid he was gonna be boo’d due to being stale. If so, then they would have boo’d him anyway haha. Just play into it. Joining Vince could have been something even he wasn’t comfortable with, but did because of his paranoia. This would have made him unlikable but also set him up to eventually turn on Vince and be himself again. The whole hugging Vince, it was entertaining, but it was the most damning thing to the Stone Cold character. He was never the same for me after that. It was character damning. It is what it is, it’s wrestling, I know WHY they do stuff like that, and I almost think of it as a separate universe Stone Cold haha, but I really hate the thought of somebody reading about the Stone Cold character and eventually they get to a point where he joins Vince….like, ugh why haha. I wish they had just turned up the ruthlessness. Beat up Lita like they did, join Vince, do all of that. But don’t make him turn into a coward. Stone Cold ‘96 was a perfect template I think that cowardly Austin works when he's WWF Champion, because he has to keep the belt. I loved the psychology of psychotic paranoid cowardly Champion Austin. I love the dynamic of a heel Champion that's willing to do anything to stay Champion. When he was heel Champ in 2001 that was great, also I loved his heel theme. He should have never been with Vince, and he shouldn't have joined the Invasion. Why would he join WCW? Why would he align with Vince? Both made his life a living hell (one in real life, the other in kayfabe). He should have been independent, DTA don't trust anybody. He could have affiliated with Paul Heyman and ECW, but not WWF or WCW. If the Invasion never happened the Invasion PPV would have most likely been Fully Loaded, as it was the July PPV for the previous three years. Austin was stale in his own head, and that's what truly matters. Austin could have never changed at all for a thousand years and people would still love it, it's been 25 years and people still love him. But if you are tired of what you're doing, you gotta change it up. I think that Austin's 2001 heel turn was one or two things away from pure greatness. If the character was a little more true to the base of itself (96 Austin) it would have been better. But it has to at the same time be different. I think the paranoid part of the character was what it needed, turn that part all the way up. Don't align with anybody, because DTA is the base of Stone Cold. You touched on something there that I agree with despite my disinterest in this run. 1) His heel music was awesome, I still love it haha. 2) When he got away from Vince and joined the alliance, despite the lack of logic, at this point I felt everything he did wasn’t true to form of what Stone Cold would do, so I was game for anything at that point haha, I felt once he got away from Vince and all the hugging Vince SPECIFICALLY, he was more enjoyable as a heel. Again, had it not been Stone Cold, I would have enjoyed this, it was the fact that this was the path this great rebel eventually got to that bothers me haha. His alliance work was much better, because he was just this paranoid heel. And I guess the logic (if there is any) in him joining WCW is because he felt under appreciated by WWF and Vince, and Shane/ Stephanie showed him some love. IDK…again, once he hugged Vince, logic went out the window for this man haha. And I do agree, changing it up if anything gives a greater appreciation to the original incarnation as well as provides longevity. I personally loved ABA Taker, but even if you didn’t, returning to the dead man gimmick was all the greater because it was absent for some time. So I agree you gotta change it up, I just wish it was eased into a little more in character and not just a 180 about face and so damning to the previous character. Like, if I told you Ulysses S. Grant joined the confederates at the end of the Civil War, it devalues everything he had done up until then if you know what I mean haha. It’s not the same because you know he joins the very people he was against |
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Post by Mclovin on Jul 23, 2021 12:23:26 GMT -5
I think that cowardly Austin works when he's WWF Champion, because he has to keep the belt. I loved the psychology of psychotic paranoid cowardly Champion Austin. I love the dynamic of a heel Champion that's willing to do anything to stay Champion. When he was heel Champ in 2001 that was great, also I loved his heel theme. He should have never been with Vince, and he shouldn't have joined the Invasion. Why would he join WCW? Why would he align with Vince? Both made his life a living hell (one in real life, the other in kayfabe). He should have been independent, DTA don't trust anybody. He could have affiliated with Paul Heyman and ECW, but not WWF or WCW. If the Invasion never happened the Invasion PPV would have most likely been Fully Loaded, as it was the July PPV for the previous three years. Austin was stale in his own head, and that's what truly matters. Austin could have never changed at all for a thousand years and people would still love it, it's been 25 years and people still love him. But if you are tired of what you're doing, you gotta change it up. I think that Austin's 2001 heel turn was one or two things away from pure greatness. If the character was a little more true to the base of itself (96 Austin) it would have been better. But it has to at the same time be different. I think the paranoid part of the character was what it needed, turn that part all the way up. Don't align with anybody, because DTA is the base of Stone Cold. You touched on something there that I agree with despite my disinterest in this run. 1) His heel music was awesome, I still love it haha. 2) When he got away from Vince and joined the alliance, despite the lack of logic, at this point I felt everything he did wasn’t true to form of what Stone Cold would do, so I was game for anything at that point haha, I felt once he got away from Vince and all the hugging Vince SPECIFICALLY, he was more enjoyable as a heel. Again, had it not been Stone Cold, I would have enjoyed this, it was the fact that this was the path this great rebel eventually got to that bothers me haha. His alliance work was much better, because he was just this paranoid heel. And I guess the logic (if there is any) in him joining WCW is because he felt under appreciated by WWF and Vince, and Shane/ Stephanie showed him some love. IDK…again, once he hugged Vince, logic went out the window for this man haha. And I do agree, changing it up if anything gives a greater appreciation to the original incarnation as well as provides longevity. I personally loved ABA Taker, but even if you didn’t, returning to the dead man gimmick was all the greater because it was absent for some time. So I agree you gotta change it up, I just wish it was eased into a little more in character and not just a 180 about face and so damning to the previous character. Like, if I told you Ulysses S. Grant joined the confederates at the end of the Civil War, it devalues everything he had done up until then if you know what I mean haha. It’s not the same because you know he joins the very people he was against The part that gets lost on most people is that when Austin turned heel, he turned heel in Texas. Anywhere it's hard to get people to not like Austin, but in Texas? It's impossible. Might as well have just turned Vince face. |
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 23, 2021 13:49:59 GMT -5
You touched on something there that I agree with despite my disinterest in this run. 1) His heel music was awesome, I still love it haha. 2) When he got away from Vince and joined the alliance, despite the lack of logic, at this point I felt everything he did wasn’t true to form of what Stone Cold would do, so I was game for anything at that point haha, I felt once he got away from Vince and all the hugging Vince SPECIFICALLY, he was more enjoyable as a heel. Again, had it not been Stone Cold, I would have enjoyed this, it was the fact that this was the path this great rebel eventually got to that bothers me haha. His alliance work was much better, because he was just this paranoid heel. And I guess the logic (if there is any) in him joining WCW is because he felt under appreciated by WWF and Vince, and Shane/ Stephanie showed him some love. IDK…again, once he hugged Vince, logic went out the window for this man haha. And I do agree, changing it up if anything gives a greater appreciation to the original incarnation as well as provides longevity. I personally loved ABA Taker, but even if you didn’t, returning to the dead man gimmick was all the greater because it was absent for some time. So I agree you gotta change it up, I just wish it was eased into a little more in character and not just a 180 about face and so damning to the previous character. Like, if I told you Ulysses S. Grant joined the confederates at the end of the Civil War, it devalues everything he had done up until then if you know what I mean haha. It’s not the same because you know he joins the very people he was against The part that gets lost on most people is that when Austin turned heel, he turned heel in Texas. Anywhere it's hard to get people to not like Austin, but in Texas? It's impossible. Might as well have just turned Vince face. Haha I can tell you this, watching the ppv unfold live, until I really listened to JR, I thought that a exactly what WAS happening. I thought Vince was turning face haha |
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Post by Mclovin on Jul 23, 2021 14:02:41 GMT -5
The part that gets lost on most people is that when Austin turned heel, he turned heel in Texas. Anywhere it's hard to get people to not like Austin, but in Texas? It's impossible. Might as well have just turned Vince face. Haha I can tell you this, watching the ppv unfold live, until I really listened to JR, I thought that a exactly what WAS happening. I thought Vince was turning face haha 80,000 people in Houston, Texas probably thought that until the next night on RAW because they didn't get to hear JR. |
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Jul 23, 2021 14:33:21 GMT -5
Hunter would have been bulletproof during the Invasion. Imagine how many Alliance guys would have been pedigreed & pinned clean in the middle. Basically the DDP/Taker feud but it's Trips against every single wrestler from the Invasion. I remember the audible groans I would let out when he used to hit the pedrigree during his reign of death from 2002-2005. I was behind him as a heel. He had true working heat with me but it was still a foregone conclusion once he kicked the babyface in the gut & put that head between the legs. |
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