nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Jul 28, 2021 11:58:19 GMT -5
Apologies if this has been covered, I tend to have periods away from the board these days.
So I’m watching WWF 96 at the moment. I’ve always given Pillman credit with his role in the WWF taking a new direction. The Pillman’s got a gun angle was always the catalyst for me.
However, on watching the first few weeks of his run, you could see the seeds being planted. From his use of language in interviews, sexual innuendo’s and border line racial slurs (and straight laced Vince apologising for the use of the words a$$ and b!tch) it’s so much easier to see in hindsight what was in store in the coming years. He also talks about his stint on the WWF superstar line drawing in big money to line Vince’s pockets, at a time when it wasn’t openly acknowledged that McMahon was the owner.
To me, Pillman did more to set up the Attitude Era run more than any other superstar. What are you guys thoughts?
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Post by The Brain on Jul 28, 2021 12:06:15 GMT -5
Yeah I look at the gun incident as the first official seed for the AE.Pillman in 98 WWF man must see TV.Shame we just missed it as a feud with Austin for the belt wouldve been fantastic.
Also imagine him in the ring doing a promo with Vince.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jul 28, 2021 18:15:47 GMT -5
That era from In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies in April 96 up to December 97 was a strange time for the WWF.
It wasn't quite New Generation, but it wasn't quite Attitude Era either. It was almost like..... a mixture between the two. Where the WWF wasn't sure which side they were gonna go with, so let's just keep doing both.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 28, 2021 22:04:08 GMT -5
I love Pillman, don’t get me wrong. I think he absolutely put the foot to the accelerator on the Attitude Era. Hugely responsible for the progression of the era and maybe responsible for its inception.
I always consider Goldust to be the true pioneer of the attitude era because he was the first drastic change in course. He was an edgy character at a time when they didn’t have any, and he was absolutely NOT endorsed by parents coast to coast at that time. I feel like once they pushed the envelope with Goldust and saw the attention that shock tv got them, it was off to the races.
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Post by The Brain on Jul 28, 2021 22:50:35 GMT -5
I love Pillman, don’t get me wrong. I think he absolutely put the foot to the accelerator on the Attitude Era. Hugely responsible for the progression of the era and maybe responsible for its inception. I always consider Goldust to be the true pioneer of the attitude era because he was the first drastic change in course. He was an edgy character at a time when they didn’t have any, and he was absolutely NOT endorsed by parents coast to coast at that time. I feel like once they pushed the envelope with Goldust and saw the attention that shock tv got them, it was off to the races. His initial heel run was the best in the characters run IMO.He really put all he had in it and it showed.
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Jul 28, 2021 23:58:13 GMT -5
I also think Goldust was one of the first to bring in an attitude era to WWF. I also personally hated the Loose Cannon gimmick. After so many years of seeing happy, smiling Brian it really hurt seeing how legit crazy he seemed to become. I will also never not think about what he did to Bobby Heenan when I think of the totality of Brian's career. That one incident ruins his whole career for me, I'm sorry to say.
Bobby obviously had an injured neck, this was probably well known in any locker room and Brian took advantage of him to get this character's craziness over on TV. He surely knew Bobby would not retaliate like some commentators would. I'm sure if Dusty or Larry had been grabbed they would have come out swinging and probably knocked Brian out and the character would be DOA.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 29, 2021 2:38:40 GMT -5
I also think Goldust was one of the first to bring in an attitude era to WWF. I also personally hated the Loose Cannon gimmick. After so many years of seeing happy, smiling Brian it really hurt seeing how legit crazy he seemed to become. I will also never not think about what he did to Bobby Heenan when I think of the totality of Brian's career. That one incident ruins his whole career for me, I'm sorry to say. Bobby obviously had an injured neck, this was probably well known in any locker room and Brian took advantage of him to get this character's craziness over on TV. He surely knew Bobby would not retaliate like some commentators would. I'm sure if Dusty or Larry had been grabbed they would have come out swinging and probably knocked Brian out and the character would be DOA. haha, I actually understand where you’re coming from on that. The character was such a radical departure from what it was, for example, I’ll never forget. One of my first set of action figures as a kid were the Galoob WCW figures, specifically Pillmans. (Because as a kid who didn’t like things with tiger stripes haha). I’ll never forget being in CVS of all places a few years later & seeing the Brian Pillman Bone Cruncher and I had to swear up in down to my Mom that I wouldn’t do drugs and I wouldn’t act like Pillman…my Mom legit thought he had become a drugged out lunatic that went off the deep end lol…and I can honestly say I thought he had actually gone crazy myself. So it’s funny you say that because I do remember at that time, it was SUCH a change in direction for Brian, people legit thought he had gone nuts. Having said that, I did enjoy the character even back then and in 2021 I have nothing but the utmost respect for his dedication to pull something like that off. The Heenan stuff, and take this with a grain of salt because if it was me with the injured neck, who am I to say what’s overreacting or not, but to me, you can watch that back and see that Brian is being very gentle with Bobby and he’s not at all really even touching him, but that’s the beauty in the gimmick because I think Heenan was LEGIT concerned with even such a minor off script moment. He was properly rattled even though Pillman, IMO, wasn’t doing anything that really warranted that sort of reaction. But Heenan wasn’t having any of it and it’s the idea that he made Bobby that uneasy that I truly respect how hard he was working everybody haha. Pillmans in my top 10 all time favorites, I loved him as a baby face, and I find the loose cannon gimmick endlessly entertaining. If I had 3 wrestling wishes, I’d use one of them to stop that car accident from ever happening just to see where Brian would have gone without the injuries, and I totally mean that. I feel so ripped off that all that happened right at the height of his career and It’s a legitimate damn shame that happened. Nobody to blame but Brian but damn….just damn. I love Pillman, don’t get me wrong. I think he absolutely put the foot to the accelerator on the Attitude Era. Hugely responsible for the progression of the era and maybe responsible for its inception. I always consider Goldust to be the true pioneer of the attitude era because he was the first drastic change in course. He was an edgy character at a time when they didn’t have any, and he was absolutely NOT endorsed by parents coast to coast at that time. I feel like once they pushed the envelope with Goldust and saw the attention that shock tv got them, it was off to the races. His initial heel run was the best in the characters run IMO.He really put all he had in it and it showed. I agree, and it was another example of somebody at school saying one day, “you know that’s Dustin Rhodes from WCW right?” And my mind being blown, like…noooooo, there’s no way that’s the same guy. He REALLY put some effort into that character. My personal favorite Goldust moment was when Dustin was doing the “he’s coming” gimmick, inferring Jesus was coming back during his feud with Val Venis, only to reveal it was actually Goldust he was talking about. I love that moment because it genuinely felt like the character had turned a corner and could now be appreciated for how eccentric it was. Also, to clarify. I think guys like Pillman & Austin were Taylor made to push the envelope for WWE into becoming what would be the Attitude Era. I think they were a conscious effort to make the show more adult, but I feel they only went that route after seeing just how effective Goldust was at expanding those boundaries and providing that system shock to the landscape. Even with somebody like Stone Cold, I always say, my favorite time for the character was 1996 because he was so drastically different when compared to the rest of the show. By 1999, you had a roster of Steve Austins so his crazy antics were surrounded by other crazy antics. But when he first came ln TV in that kid friendly environment, and he was throwing fingers and cursing, it was such entertaining television to see the ripple effects of that play out. It was like sticking Duke Nukem onto Sesame Street haha.
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Post by rkmo: Autonomous Meat Shield on Jul 29, 2021 12:23:46 GMT -5
Vince and DX created the Attitude Era. Despite popularity being higher than it had ever been before in history and having an upward trajectory like nobody could have predicted, they decided the company needed to shake things up.
Learn your history, courtesy of WWE 😉
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Post by MKSavage on Jul 29, 2021 20:00:28 GMT -5
His initial heel run was the best in the characters run IMO.He really put all he had in it and it showed. I agree, and it was another example of somebody at school saying one day, “you know that’s Dustin Rhodes from WCW right?” And my mind being blown, like…noooooo, there’s no way that’s the same guy. He REALLY put some effort into that character. My personal favorite Goldust moment was when Dustin was doing the “he’s coming” gimmick, inferring Jesus was coming back during his feud with Val Venis, only to reveal it was actually Goldust he was talking about. I love that moment because it genuinely felt like the character had turned a corner and could now be appreciated for how eccentric it was. Also, to clarify. I think guys like Pillman & Austin were Taylor made to push the envelope for WWE into becoming what would be the Attitude Era. I think they were a conscious effort to make the show more adult, but I feel they only went that route after seeing just how effective Goldust was at expanding those boundaries and providing that system shock to the landscape. Even with somebody like Stone Cold, I always say, my favorite time for the character was 1996 because he was so drastically different when compared to the rest of the show. By 1999, you had a roster of Steve Austins so his crazy antics were surrounded by other crazy antics. But when he first came ln TV in that kid friendly environment, and he was throwing fingers and cursing, it was such entertaining television to see the ripple effects of that play out. It was like sticking Duke Nukem onto Sesame Street haha. Same. It took me a while before I knew it was Dustin. I first realized it during a match (can't remember which) when most of his face paint wore off. He did a really good job with the character.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 29, 2021 21:39:30 GMT -5
I agree, and it was another example of somebody at school saying one day, “you know that’s Dustin Rhodes from WCW right?” And my mind being blown, like…noooooo, there’s no way that’s the same guy. He REALLY put some effort into that character. My personal favorite Goldust moment was when Dustin was doing the “he’s coming” gimmick, inferring Jesus was coming back during his feud with Val Venis, only to reveal it was actually Goldust he was talking about. I love that moment because it genuinely felt like the character had turned a corner and could now be appreciated for how eccentric it was. Also, to clarify. I think guys like Pillman & Austin were Taylor made to push the envelope for WWE into becoming what would be the Attitude Era. I think they were a conscious effort to make the show more adult, but I feel they only went that route after seeing just how effective Goldust was at expanding those boundaries and providing that system shock to the landscape. Even with somebody like Stone Cold, I always say, my favorite time for the character was 1996 because he was so drastically different when compared to the rest of the show. By 1999, you had a roster of Steve Austins so his crazy antics were surrounded by other crazy antics. But when he first came ln TV in that kid friendly environment, and he was throwing fingers and cursing, it was such entertaining television to see the ripple effects of that play out. It was like sticking Duke Nukem onto Sesame Street haha. Same. It took me a while before I knew it was Dustin. I first realized it during a match (can't remember which) when most of his face paint wore off. He did a really good job with the character. Same thing happened with Scott Steiner. I remember turning on WCW one day and I had no idea that Big Poppa Pump was Scott Steiner.
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Jul 30, 2021 9:22:44 GMT -5
I was thinking last night about how popular Brian would have been if he lived into 1998/1999. Think about who was really starting to get over during the Attitude Era. It was A LOT of guys who had been were jobbers with a gimmick and most never made it to a PPV unless a Rumble or Survivor Series filler. Brian had 7 or so years of being over and while sometimes he disappeared from WCW or they didn't use him, the times he was around he made the show.
Brian may have been opening match in WCW but he was always presented as a threat to a guys title belt or as one of the more exciting guys on the roster. If Hardcore Holly and Road Dogg, Al Snow and so many others found such big fame during the Attitude Era after years of jobbing, I can imagine Brian being the innovator he was, his friendship with Austin that may help with a higher spot on the card and being totally unpredictable and unscripted would be insanely popular. It would have also been interesting to see how the Marlena angle went had he lived. I imagine she would have gone with him and Goldust kept face.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 30, 2021 15:40:45 GMT -5
I was thinking last night about how popular Brian would have been if he lived into 1998/1999. Think about who was really starting to get over during the Attitude Era. It was A LOT of guys who had been were jobbers with a gimmick and most never made it to a PPV unless a Rumble or Survivor Series filler. Brian had 7 or so years of being over and while sometimes he disappeared from WCW or they didn't use him, the times he was around he made the show. Brian may have been opening match in WCW but he was always presented as a threat to a guys title belt or as one of the more exciting guys on the roster. If Hardcore Holly and Road Dogg, Al Snow and so many others found such big fame during the Attitude Era after years of jobbing, I can imagine Brian being the innovator he was, his friendship with Austin that may help with a higher spot on the card and being totally unpredictable and unscripted would be insanely popular. It would have also been interesting to see how the Marlena angle went had he lived. I imagine she would have gone with him and Goldust kept face. Great points. And I always think of this too, I’d be interested to see how Pillman played out had he LIVED….imagine how it would have played out had he never gotten HURT! in WWF, we were getting strictly a Brian Pillman with 1/4th of his ability in the ring, he was getting by on his character alone. Imagine had he never gotten hurt, I mean, this was one of the all time in ring performers and he now had a gimmick to match. I’d love to see the alternate reality where Pillman didn’t get hurt and debuted in WWF with all his weapons.
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Jul 30, 2021 18:21:46 GMT -5
Great points. And I always think of this too, I’d be interested to see how Pillman played out had he LIVED….imagine how it would have played out had he never gotten HURT! in WWF, we were getting strictly a Brian Pillman with 1/4th of his ability in the ring, he was getting by on his character alone. Imagine had he never gotten hurt, I mean, this was one of the all time in ring performers and he now had a gimmick to match. I’d love to see the alternate reality where Pillman didn’t get hurt and debuted in WWF with all his weapons. A healthy Brian would have been awesome but I feel like it would be the older crowd who could really appreciate him. I was 12 when he came to WWF and wasn't "smart" at all to anything. When he said "Brian F'n Pillman" at King of the Ring I didn't understand it and thought his middle name was "Effron" or something like that. I grew up on Jesse and Gorilla and Jesse said one of his relatives was "Effron The Body" so I had no idea that Brian was trying to be edgy in his promo. I thought that was his middle name and wrote it in my real name note pad his middle name was "Effron." As much as I didn't like his gimmick change I do wish he got the chance to make it to the Attitude Era as I know he would have over shadowed a lot of guys in WWF and a lot of the guys who became famous in the Attitude Era were pretty much total jobbers and would never make it in any other era.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 30, 2021 19:33:50 GMT -5
Great points. And I always think of this too, I’d be interested to see how Pillman played out had he LIVED….imagine how it would have played out had he never gotten HURT! in WWF, we were getting strictly a Brian Pillman with 1/4th of his ability in the ring, he was getting by on his character alone. Imagine had he never gotten hurt, I mean, this was one of the all time in ring performers and he now had a gimmick to match. I’d love to see the alternate reality where Pillman didn’t get hurt and debuted in WWF with all his weapons. A healthy Brian would have been awesome but I feel like it would be the older crowd who could really appreciate him. I was 12 when he came to WWF and wasn't "smart" at all to anything. When he said "Brian F'n Pillman" at King of the Ring I didn't understand it and thought his middle name was "Effron" or something like that. I grew up on Jesse and Gorilla and Jesse said one of his relatives was "Effron The Body" so I had no idea that Brian was trying to be edgy in his promo. I thought that was his middle name and wrote it in my real name note pad his middle name was "Effron." As much as I didn't like his gimmick change I do wish he got the chance to make it to the Attitude Era as I know he would have over shadowed a lot of guys in WWF and a lot of the guys who became famous in the Attitude Era were pretty much total jobbers and would never make it in any other era. Dude….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. The Brian “Effron” Pillman thing has me legit laughing. If you still have the journal you gotta post a pic. That’s an awesome story haha. I was 9 at the time & grew up in an all Italian home outside of NYC. I was pretty positive I knew what the “fn” was referring to haha. That’s a funny story though man haha. Bravo 👏 But yea though, if he was healthy during the Attitude Era, that would have been something to see. Once he went into the Hart Foundation, he kind of became wallpaper, he never really did anything of note after that.
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Jul 30, 2021 20:41:41 GMT -5
Dude….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. The Brian “Effron” Pillman thing has me legit laughing. If you still have the journal you gotta post a pic. That’s an awesome story haha. I was 9 at the time & grew up in an all Italian home outside of NYC. I was pretty positive I knew what the “fn” was referring to haha. That’s a funny story though man haha. Bravo 👏 But yea though, if he was healthy during the Attitude Era, that would have been something to see. Once he went into the Hart Foundation, he kind of became wallpaper, he never really did anything of note after that. Most everything from my childhood is gone but I seriously thought Brian was giving out his middle name to all the King of the Ring fans. I guess I just didn't get his gimmick at any time and I guess I was a bit naive. I stopped watching WWF in late 1996 so didn't see him from a little past the gun angle until Summerslam 1997 time. By time I got KOTR 1997 he probably had passed though I thought the skit with he and Austin where Austin put his head in the toilet was BS. Austin should have had enough power to try and make Brian a main eventer. Brian did kind of blend in with the Hart Foundation, maybe one step above Anvil but below Owen and Bulldog but all five guys together made an amazing team. If I had a choice to end WWF or wrestling on TV in general as if it were a major TV serious I would have ended it the night of Canadian Stampede.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 30, 2021 22:02:31 GMT -5
Dude….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. The Brian “Effron” Pillman thing has me legit laughing. If you still have the journal you gotta post a pic. That’s an awesome story haha. I was 9 at the time & grew up in an all Italian home outside of NYC. I was pretty positive I knew what the “fn” was referring to haha. That’s a funny story though man haha. Bravo 👏 But yea though, if he was healthy during the Attitude Era, that would have been something to see. Once he went into the Hart Foundation, he kind of became wallpaper, he never really did anything of note after that. Most everything from my childhood is gone but I seriously thought Brian was giving out his middle name to all the King of the Ring fans. I guess I just didn't get his gimmick at any time and I guess I was a bit naive. I stopped watching WWF in late 1996 so didn't see him from a little past the gun angle until Summerslam 1997 time. By time I got KOTR 1997 he probably had passed though I thought the skit with he and Austin where Austin put his head in the toilet was BS. Austin should have had enough power to try and make Brian a main eventer. Brian did kind of blend in with the Hart Foundation, maybe one step above Anvil but below Owen and Bulldog but all five guys together made an amazing team. If I had a choice to end WWF or wrestling on TV in general as if it were a major TV serious I would have ended it the night of Canadian Stampede. Oh dude, that’s an amazing match at Canadian Stampede. It’s very bitter sweet now because it’s such an awesome match, and I can’t help but think at the end of that match, that’s one of the last times all the Harts were together. I know they’ve had their issues and that ring would start losing members starting with Pillman in October. It was a truly special moment. The Hart family was like wrestling’s first family. Haha, I always used to laugh at the Austin/ Pillman bathroom scene. On my “because Stone cold said so” VHS back in the day, when Austin would peer over Brian’s shoulder, man, we’d laugh so much at that. I too wish Pillman had been used as a main event er but I just think his accident screwed everything up. He just wasn’t able to go like he needed to.
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Post by MKSavage on Jul 30, 2021 23:54:01 GMT -5
I think there were a lot of moments from 1995-1998 that really helped push the Attitude Era until they finally went with it. Diesel's heelish good-guy run after turning on Bret at Survivor Series 95. Goldust's arrival in the fall of 1995 and some of his more controversial stuff with Razor, Warrior, Piper and Ahmed. Pillman coming into the company in the Spring of 1996, playing on his loose cannon gimmick. Austin going from the Ringmaster to Stonecold after WM12, becoming a lot more edgier. Mankind's character was also a lot darker than many. HBK vs Mankind at IYH in 1996, they did a lot of outside the ring wrestling, and hardcore style stuff - especially compared to other matches from the New Generation Era. Same thing for the Boiler Room Brawl at Summer Slam 1996. Undertaker going to a more edgier "Goth" gimmick in late 1996 after Paul Bearer turned on him. Definitely Austin's 3:16 promo at King of the Ring in 1996 and his vicious attack on Pillman on Raw. The "Gunshot" segment on Raw with Austin and Pillman. Bret becoming a lot more vocal about the way the company was going at the time, complaining about the lack of respect in his promos. Farooq going from his weird gladiator gimmick to his Nation of Domination gimmick in late 1996, early 1997. Bret and Austin's feud from late 1996 through mid 1997. Bret shoving Vince down on Raw before WM13. Definitely Austin vs Bret at WM13 and the double turn. Mick Foley branching out with his characters (Mankind, Dude Love, and Cactus Jack). Shawn becoming a lot more edgier. The creation of DX. The Rock changing his character from the goodie-two-shoes to the cocky, arrogant heel. The Bret/Shawn incidents. Vince going from just an announcer to the owner of the company, I believe this was the first time they officially announced that. The Montreal Screwjob. Vince saying Bret Screwed Bret. Vince saying that they were going to pull back the curtain and give you (the audience) a more grown-up, edgier product. And the addition of Mike Tyson for the WM14 storyline. All of these moments really spurred on the Attitude Era, some long before they officially went with it after WM14.
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 31, 2021 2:36:34 GMT -5
I think there were a lot of moments from 1995-1998 that really helped push the Attitude Era until they finally went with it. Diesel's heelish good-guy run after turning on Bret at Survivor Series 95. Goldust's arrival in the fall of 1995 and some of his more controversial stuff with Razor, Warrior, Piper and Ahmed. Pillman coming into the company in the Spring of 1996, playing on his loose cannon gimmick. Austin going from the Ringmaster to Stonecold after WM12, becoming a lot more edgier. Mankind's character was also a lot darker than many. HBK vs Mankind at IYH in 1996, they did a lot of outside the ring wrestling, and hardcore style stuff - especially compared to other matches from the New Generation Era. Same thing for the Boiler Room Brawl at Summer Slam 1996. Undertaker going to a more edgier "Goth" gimmick in late 1996 after Paul Bearer turned on him. Definitely Austin's 3:16 promo at King of the Ring in 1996 and his vicious attack on Pillman on Raw. The "Gunshot" segment on Raw with Austin and Pillman. Bret becoming a lot more vocal about the way the company was going at the time, complaining about the lack of respect in his promos. Farooq going from his weird gladiator gimmick to his Nation of Domination gimmick in late 1996, early 1997. Bret and Austin's feud from late 1996 through mid 1997. Bret shoving Vince down on Raw before WM13. Definitely Austin vs Bret at WM13 and the double turn. Mick Foley branching out with his characters (Mankind, Dude Love, and Cactus Jack). Shawn becoming a lot more edgier. The creation of DX. The Rock changing his character from the goodie-two-shoes to the cocky, arrogant heel. The Bret/Shawn incidents. Vince going from just an announcer to the owner of the company, I believe this was the first time they officially announced that. The Montreal Screwjob. Vince saying Bret Screwed Bret. Vince saying that they were going to pull back the curtain and give you (the audience) a more grown-up, edgier product. And the addition of Mike Tyson for the WM14 storyline. All of these moments really spurred on the Attitude Era, some long before they officially went with it after WM14. I think you’ve documented it best there Macho. It’s funny you mention Warrior in there because I often watch his promo after ‘Mania 12 with Goldust and I wanna say that’s one of the first times somebody used strong language on WWF programming. I can’t think of another instance where somebody cursed like thatt, it was a very adult promo for that time. I’d find it weird if the first use of strong language on WWE tv came from the Ultimate Warrior lol. Who could have guessed that. Having said that, I wish we had gotten more time with ‘96 Warrior. I loved the Attitude-ish version of him.
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Post by MKSavage on Jul 31, 2021 12:46:09 GMT -5
I think there were a lot of moments from 1995-1998 that really helped push the Attitude Era until they finally went with it. Diesel's heelish good-guy run after turning on Bret at Survivor Series 95. Goldust's arrival in the fall of 1995 and some of his more controversial stuff with Razor, Warrior, Piper and Ahmed. Pillman coming into the company in the Spring of 1996, playing on his loose cannon gimmick. Austin going from the Ringmaster to Stonecold after WM12, becoming a lot more edgier. Mankind's character was also a lot darker than many. HBK vs Mankind at IYH in 1996, they did a lot of outside the ring wrestling, and hardcore style stuff - especially compared to other matches from the New Generation Era. Same thing for the Boiler Room Brawl at Summer Slam 1996. Undertaker going to a more edgier "Goth" gimmick in late 1996 after Paul Bearer turned on him. Definitely Austin's 3:16 promo at King of the Ring in 1996 and his vicious attack on Pillman on Raw. The "Gunshot" segment on Raw with Austin and Pillman. Bret becoming a lot more vocal about the way the company was going at the time, complaining about the lack of respect in his promos. Farooq going from his weird gladiator gimmick to his Nation of Domination gimmick in late 1996, early 1997. Bret and Austin's feud from late 1996 through mid 1997. Bret shoving Vince down on Raw before WM13. Definitely Austin vs Bret at WM13 and the double turn. Mick Foley branching out with his characters (Mankind, Dude Love, and Cactus Jack). Shawn becoming a lot more edgier. The creation of DX. The Rock changing his character from the goodie-two-shoes to the cocky, arrogant heel. The Bret/Shawn incidents. Vince going from just an announcer to the owner of the company, I believe this was the first time they officially announced that. The Montreal Screwjob. Vince saying Bret Screwed Bret. Vince saying that they were going to pull back the curtain and give you (the audience) a more grown-up, edgier product. And the addition of Mike Tyson for the WM14 storyline. All of these moments really spurred on the Attitude Era, some long before they officially went with it after WM14. I think you’ve documented it best there Macho. It’s funny you mention Warrior in there because I often watch his promo after ‘Mania 12 with Goldust and I wanna say that’s one of the first times somebody used strong language on WWF programming. I can’t think of another instance where somebody cursed like thatt, it was a very adult promo for that time. I’d find it weird if the first use of strong language on WWE tv came from the Ultimate Warrior lol. Who could have guessed that. Having said that, I wish we had gotten more time with ‘96 Warrior. I loved the Attitude-ish version of him. That is a good point, I do remember him and even Piper using "stronger" language when working with Goldust. I also remember Razor Ramon beating the crap out of him backstage, if I remember correctly, that was probably the first time (not counting Savage attacking Hogan to break up the Mega Powers) that we saw someone getting beaten up back stage. That would become a staple of the attitude era, but was definitely not common in the "golden era" or "new generation era". Also, I liked Warrior, I was very interested in his return in 1996. I think, if his mind was right, that he could have fit in that era. He changed his look up a bit which fit in more with the more colorful era of the New Generation. Not sure if he would have worked in the attitude era, he would have had to change up his look even more and changed his promo style to a more realistic one. But, when he was in WCW in 1998, he did change his look somewhat, wearing jeans more when not wrestling.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
Posts: 2,627
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 31, 2021 13:47:03 GMT -5
I think you’ve documented it best there Macho. It’s funny you mention Warrior in there because I often watch his promo after ‘Mania 12 with Goldust and I wanna say that’s one of the first times somebody used strong language on WWF programming. I can’t think of another instance where somebody cursed like thatt, it was a very adult promo for that time. I’d find it weird if the first use of strong language on WWE tv came from the Ultimate Warrior lol. Who could have guessed that. Having said that, I wish we had gotten more time with ‘96 Warrior. I loved the Attitude-ish version of him. That is a good point, I do remember him and even Piper using "stronger" language when working with Goldust. I also remember Razor Ramon beating the crap out of him backstage, if I remember correctly, that was probably the first time (not counting Savage attacking Hogan to break up the Mega Powers) that we saw someone getting beaten up back stage. That would become a staple of the attitude era, but was definitely not common in the "golden era" or "new generation era". Also, I liked Warrior, I was very interested in his return in 1996. I think, if his mind was right, that he could have fit in that era. He changed his look up a bit which fit in more with the more colorful era of the New Generation. Not sure if he would have worked in the attitude era, he would have had to change up his look even more and changed his promo style to a more realistic one. But, when he was in WCW in 1998, he did change his look somewhat, wearing jeans more when not wrestling. Oh yea, even the backstage brawl with Piper & Goldust, hell before that, Savage & Crush at WM10. Those matches were so fascinating to me as a kid because we never saw the guys outside the ring. That’s very true. Look, I’m a Warrior mark haha, so people will think I just like everything Warrior did…and that’s very true haha. There’s a reason I like him. I know he gets hate in WCW but his debut promo on Hogan in WCW is one of my all time favorites. He did exactly that, he spoke more articulately, which again, I love Warriors nonsensical promos, but he was actually a pretty well spoken guy and I think his WWF ‘96 run and definitely his WCW run touched on that the best. I think the issue with Warrior in WCW was that he was branded in such WWF colors and people wanted to see Sting defeat Hogan, not Warrior. It felt to me like taking a storyline from another show and concluding it on this show. Warrior/Hogan was too big of a rematch to not take center stage, but I don’t think it was necessary or anything needed at that time. Warrior coming in to WCW was like Optimus Prime coming into Ninja Turtles and defeating Shredder. I can like Transformers and I can like Ninja Turtles, but I don’t really want the star of this show concluding the series on that show, if that makes sense? I wanna see the Ninja Turtles beat Shredder, that’s what I’m invested in. That’s also disregarding the entire reason they brought in Warrior in the first place which was to build Hogan as a bigger heel…but regardless, I think that’s why the interest kinda waned. Kinda went on a tangent there haha
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