|
|
Post by TKO Propagandist on Aug 2, 2021 8:00:06 GMT -5
I know there is a Sting thread already but I figured this would get more eyes as its own post, so here it goes...
I have been recently binge watching all WCW from 1995-1998 and just viewed the Starrcade 97' show for the first time. I had always heard about the controversy with Nick Patrick in the main event but had never even seen any clips of it. So when I saw the match the other day, I was stunned. Before I heard anything about a fast count, I quickly rewound and my first thought was that Sting got the right shoulder up. I may even still think this. Did Sting realize he was being screwed by Patrick who wasn't going to do the planned fast count so thinking on the fly, Sting tried to feintly get the shoulder up to ensure there was still rightful controversy in the finish? I have never seen it mentioned, but again this is my first time seeing and then reading up on all of this. So let me know what you guys think.
Check out video of the count
|
|
|
|
Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Aug 2, 2021 10:47:03 GMT -5
I don't know, if he did it doesn't really look like it from what I see in that video.
That match was so badly screwed up from a booking standpoint that a shoulder up or not, it wouldn't have saved that match. To me, the match was dead in the water when Lex Luger won the WCW Title earlier that summer on Nitro. Lex already defeated Hogan, even if it was for a week. Sting doing it isn't gonna be as exciting now.
|
|
|
|
Post by PJ on Aug 2, 2021 15:42:41 GMT -5
Yes, he lifted and rolled his right shoulder under Hogan’s body.
|
|
Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
Posts: 2,627
|
Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Aug 2, 2021 22:33:26 GMT -5
It definitely looks like he noticed Patrick wasn’t fast counting and tried to protect himself by lifting his shoulder.
|
|
|
|
Post by K5 on Aug 3, 2021 15:54:33 GMT -5
eh, I think he was just trying to kick out as soon as the three got counted to clarify that he wasn’t down and out at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by TKO Propagandist on Aug 5, 2021 14:46:37 GMT -5
Just watched the Sting Macho Man Nitro main event from Feb' 98. Savage was meant to hit the elbow then have Sting beat but Hogan breaks it up before three. But Hogan was so slow coming down that Randy had to stall, so when he went to cover, Stinger made sure to kick out just as Hollywood broke it up. Then the story being told is that Hulk broke it up because he wants to be the one to first pin Crow Sting. So Macho had him beat in their eyes! Creative were prepared to make Stinger look bad again!! In my mind these were two solid kickouts. They told the wrong story. STING GOT THE SHOULDER UP. TWICE NOW. YOU WILL NOT SCREW HIM. Yet.....
|
|
Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
Posts: 2,627
|
Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Aug 6, 2021 15:08:32 GMT -5
Just watched the Sting Macho Man Nitro main event from Feb' 98. Savage was meant to hit the elbow then have Sting beat but Hogan breaks it up before three. But Hogan was so slow coming down that Randy had to stall, so when he went to cover, Stinger made sure to kick out just as Hollywood broke it up. Then the story being told is that Hulk broke it up because he wants to be the one to first pin Crow Sting. So Macho had him beat in their eyes! Creative were prepared to make Stinger look bad again!! In my mind these were two solid kickouts. They told the wrong story. STING GOT THE SHOULDER UP. TWICE NOW. YOU WILL NOT SCREW HIM. Yet..... The Sting vs nWo story is my all time favorite angle in the history of pro wrestling. I have given it serious thought and over the years, the more I have described the intricacies of the angle, whether intentional or not, it’s the most awesome angle both in front of the cameras and behind the scenes, as the story stays the same for both. …having said that, WCW ran that football like Barry Sanders right to the 1 inch line…and then just decided to throw the football backwards 80 yards for no reason haha. Whether Sting got screwed or not made no difference to me, why on EARTH was he dominated so completely in that match against Hogan? Then, to botch the fast count, ok it went from bad to FAR worse, because now it looks like Hogan just beat the hell out of Sting in 10 minutes fair and square. Then Bret comes out and basically screws HOGAN…who just beat Sting fair and square. Now he’s getting screwed and Sting wins because reasons…and then the cherry on the cake. The man says nothing for a year, the first thing he says is Mamazita…just WTF man haha. They flushed that angle down the drain so efficiently, it was like being homeless, winning the lottery, and lighting the money on fire all in 10 seconds And again I have to stress, this angle is PERFECT…perfect, right up until Starrcade. Then WCW just destroyed all they had built for over a year. And the excuses are ridiculous, “Sting wasn’t in shape, not sure if Sting could carry the ball”…Dude, you just spent 15 months putting this guy over and made him the hottest star in the business, you can’t have cold feet at the 11th hour and 59th minute…ESPECIALLY WHEN IT WORKED! he was over, he was red hot, like what the hell were they thinking? At that point, you bought the bullets, you loaded the gun..Jesus just pull the trigger at that point and see what happens, you did all the work! Totally ridiculous. If they had doubts in Sting, than they probably shouldn’t have put him over as an unstoppable force for 15 months haha. They killed that, what a botch to a perfect angle. I’m still bitter. And I also scrutinize the decision to just make him pro WCW right after he won. I would have had him win the belt and stay neutral because he could have been that Stone Cold character for WCW that could wrestle the heels and the faces and still remain baby face. WCW had betrayed him, I would have made it so they earned his trust again. |
|
|
|
Post by TKO Propagandist on Aug 6, 2021 15:45:29 GMT -5
Just watched the Sting Macho Man Nitro main event from Feb' 98. Savage was meant to hit the elbow then have Sting beat but Hogan breaks it up before three. But Hogan was so slow coming down that Randy had to stall, so when he went to cover, Stinger made sure to kick out just as Hollywood broke it up. Then the story being told is that Hulk broke it up because he wants to be the one to first pin Crow Sting. So Macho had him beat in their eyes! Creative were prepared to make Stinger look bad again!! In my mind these were two solid kickouts. They told the wrong story. STING GOT THE SHOULDER UP. TWICE NOW. YOU WILL NOT SCREW HIM. Yet..... The Sting vs nWo story is my all time favorite angle in the history of pro wrestling. I have given it serious thought and over the years, the more I have described the intricacies of the angle, whether intentional or not, it’s the most awesome angle both in front of the cameras and behind the scenes, as the story stays the same for both. …having said that, WCW ran that football like Barry Sanders right to the 1 inch line…and then just decided to throw the football backwards 80 yards for no reason haha. Whether Sting got screwed or not made no difference to me, why on EARTH was he dominated so completely in that match against Hogan? Then, to botch the fast count, ok it went from bad to FAR worse, because now it looks like Hogan just beat the hell out of Sting in 10 minutes fair and square. Then Bret comes out and basically screws HOGAN…who just beat Sting fair and square. Now he’s getting screwed and Sting wins because reasons…and then the cherry on the cake. The man says nothing for a year, the first thing he says is Mamazita…just WTF man haha. They flushed that angle down the drain so efficiently, it was like being homeless, winning the lottery, and lighting the money on fire all in 10 seconds And again I have to stress, this angle is PERFECT…perfect, right up until Starrcade. Then WCW just destroyed all they had built for over a year. And the excuses are ridiculous, “Sting wasn’t in shape, not sure if Sting could carry the ball”…Dude, you just spent 15 months putting this guy over and made him the hottest star in the business, you can’t have cold feet at the 11th hour and 59th minute…ESPECIALLY WHEN IT WORKED! he was over, he was red hot, like what the hell were they thinking? At that point, you bought the bullets, you loaded the gun..Jesus just pull the trigger at that point and see what happens, you did all the work! Totally ridiculous. If they had doubts in Sting, than they probably shouldn’t have put him over as an unstoppable force for 15 months haha. They killed that, what a botch to a perfect angle. I’m still bitter. And I also scrutinize the decision to just make him pro WCW right after he won. I would have had him win the belt and stay neutral because he could have been that Stone Cold character for WCW that could wrestle the heels and the faces and still remain baby face. WCW had betrayed him, I would have made it so they earned his trust again. It really is awesome during the build-up. Every week the fans were clammering for him, then through the crowd he came or from the rafters he propelled. The one angle they did were the nWo laid him out for the first time which was before World War 3. My heart sank. I was so invested. I was reminded of being a kid watching RoboCop & first seeing Officer Murphy gunned down & later were the goons took him apart after he became RoboCop. Those feelings came flooding back as I watched Stinger get beaten down. They had run through the entire roster... except for Sting. He was the one they just couldn't get to. He was the one who could single handledly fight them all off! So when they finally were able to have their way with him it was super effective. People might have thought it was silly for Stinger to go down to the ring & fight them alone. But he had done it before!! AND HELD THEM ALL OFF!!! The segments with JJ popped me huge, it was obvious to everyone sure. But those segments made every fan in the world, without any shadow of a doubt want this match. There was also the debut of the scorpion death drop segment or how about when he came from underneath the ring canvass & hit in on Bischoff, or when he hit it on pretty much the whole nWo, then when he saved DDP by hooking him in & the two went up together, the fake sting as the dummy only to actually be the real Sting whippin' ass. All of it, just amazing TV. But my all time favorite moment Sting moment was at the Clash with the vulture & the debut of the crow theme. The spooky monologue, the crazy looking bird, the dead pan stare by Sting down from the rafters. The siren. The entire nWo looking scared sh*tless. It was epic. I mean damn, it's the most awesome, slow burning angle ever. The climax at the biggest show in their history just wrote itself. If ever there was a downright simple booking decision to be made, this was it. Sure we got the celebrations. And my jaw was on the floor when he yelled ''mamacita!'' into the camera after not saying a word for 15 months. Sting was just the absolute best. It is just such a shame that he has been so screwed around by creative & political wrestlers or being put off by the warranted fear of similar happening in WWF. Made worse by the fact those fears became somewhat of a reality during the bad run he had working for Titan in 2015. For such an iconic, cream of the crop talent, he deserved so much better creatively. Atleast we still get to see some of them wrongs righted today if only a little with him still being involved in memorable moments & matches in 2020/21 in All Elite. |
|
Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
Posts: 2,627
|
Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Aug 6, 2021 18:08:17 GMT -5
The Sting vs nWo story is my all time favorite angle in the history of pro wrestling. I have given it serious thought and over the years, the more I have described the intricacies of the angle, whether intentional or not, it’s the most awesome angle both in front of the cameras and behind the scenes, as the story stays the same for both. …having said that, WCW ran that football like Barry Sanders right to the 1 inch line…and then just decided to throw the football backwards 80 yards for no reason haha. Whether Sting got screwed or not made no difference to me, why on EARTH was he dominated so completely in that match against Hogan? Then, to botch the fast count, ok it went from bad to FAR worse, because now it looks like Hogan just beat the hell out of Sting in 10 minutes fair and square. Then Bret comes out and basically screws HOGAN…who just beat Sting fair and square. Now he’s getting screwed and Sting wins because reasons…and then the cherry on the cake. The man says nothing for a year, the first thing he says is Mamazita…just WTF man haha. They flushed that angle down the drain so efficiently, it was like being homeless, winning the lottery, and lighting the money on fire all in 10 seconds And again I have to stress, this angle is PERFECT…perfect, right up until Starrcade. Then WCW just destroyed all they had built for over a year. And the excuses are ridiculous, “Sting wasn’t in shape, not sure if Sting could carry the ball”…Dude, you just spent 15 months putting this guy over and made him the hottest star in the business, you can’t have cold feet at the 11th hour and 59th minute…ESPECIALLY WHEN IT WORKED! he was over, he was red hot, like what the hell were they thinking? At that point, you bought the bullets, you loaded the gun..Jesus just pull the trigger at that point and see what happens, you did all the work! Totally ridiculous. If they had doubts in Sting, than they probably shouldn’t have put him over as an unstoppable force for 15 months haha. They killed that, what a botch to a perfect angle. I’m still bitter. And I also scrutinize the decision to just make him pro WCW right after he won. I would have had him win the belt and stay neutral because he could have been that Stone Cold character for WCW that could wrestle the heels and the faces and still remain baby face. WCW had betrayed him, I would have made it so they earned his trust again. It really is awesome during the build-up. Every week the fans were clammering for him, then through the crowd he came or from the rafters he propelled. The one angle they did were the nWo laid him out for the first time which was before World War 3. My heart sank. I was so invested. I was reminded of being a kid watching RoboCop & first seeing Officer Murphy gunned down & later were the goons took him apart after he became RoboCop. Those feelings came flooding back as I watched Stinger get beaten down. They had run through the entire roster... except for Sting. He was the one they just couldn't get to. He was the one who could single handledly fight them all off! So when they finally were able to have their way with him it was super effective. People might have thought it was silly for Stinger to go down to the ring & fight them alone. But he had done it before!! AND HELD THEM ALL OFF!!! The segments with JJ popped me huge, it was obvious to everyone sure. But those segments made every fan in the world, without any shadow of a doubt want this match. There was also the debut of the scorpion death drop segment or how about when he came from underneath the ring canvass & hit in on Bischoff, or when he hit it on pretty much the whole nWo, then when he saved DDP by hooking him in & the two went up together, the fake sting as the dummy only to actually be the real Sting whippin' ass. All of it, just amazing TV. But my all time favorite moment Sting moment was at the Clash with the vulture & the debut of the crow theme. The spooky monologue, the crazy looking bird, the dead pan stare by Sting down from the rafters. The siren. The entire nWo looking scared sh*tless. It was epic. I mean damn, it's the most awesome, slow burning angle ever. The climax at the biggest show in their history just wrote itself. If ever there was a downright simple booking decision to be made, this was it. Sure we got the celebrations. And my jaw was on the floor when he yelled ''mamacita!'' into the camera after not saying a word for 15 months. Sting was just the absolute best. It is just such a shame that he has been so screwed around by creative & political wrestlers or being put off by the warranted fear of similar happening in WWF. Made worse by the fact those fears became somewhat of a reality during the bad run he had working for Titan in 2015. For such an iconic, cream of the crop talent, he deserved so much better creatively. Atleast we still get to see some of them wrongs righted today if only a little with him still being involved in memorable moments & matches in 2020/21 in All Elite. You’re on the money my friend. The Stinger was/ is a favorite of mine only second to Warrior. And when I watched WCW Saturday Nights, he was WCW Warrior for me. (Which as I would come to find they were actual tag partners breaking in, which made it make all the sense in the world haha) My epic Sting moment was after Uncensored when he came down on the wire and beat up the nWo for the first time. He came down as perfect as can be, that stuff was super hero like. I agree though, 100%, it wrote itself. How oh how did they screw that up? |
|
