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Post by jason88cubs on Nov 30, 2021 16:44:58 GMT -5
Another Survivor Series 91 topic! Thanks to Brain and his awesome retro nights
If you watch the match you see alot of people cheering for Taker and booing Hogan. There was some anti Hogan sign and some pro Taker signs
91 was a interesting year because society was changing, 80s hair metal was gone or dying (unfortunately) as Grunge was making waves, 80s programming was ending or near end (Cosby show, Cheers) and newer more loud, maybe filthy? stuff was coming in (Roseanne, SImpsons,)
So my question is was Taker really over that time? or was it more of a Anti Hogan thing. Basically if you are going against Hogan we are rooting for you. People tired of the cheesy Hogan stuff liking the dark Undertaker gimmick.
I liked Taker but he didn't talk, didn't have fantastic matches, but in that match people were cheering hard for him
It was the first time I remember a crowd being against Hulk (I'm not counting his match with Warrior in this, because they were still Hogan fans) Then of course Rumble 92 he was booed Mania 93 he was cheered, booed at King of Ring 93
Just curious on thoughs
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 30, 2021 16:48:33 GMT -5
Probably a combination of both.
If you look at Wrestlemania VIII just a few months later, Undertaker was a complete baby face good guy! So fans were cheering him whether it was against Hogan, or against a heel like Jake Roberts.
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Post by jason88cubs on Nov 30, 2021 16:59:59 GMT -5
Probably a combination of both. If you look at Wrestlemania VIII just a few months later, Undertaker was a complete baby face good guy! So fans were cheering him whether it was against Hogan, or against a heel like Jake Roberts. Why do you think he was so over? Like I said he didn't talk, not great matches technically. Was it his look? mystique? |
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Post by The Brain on Nov 30, 2021 17:05:43 GMT -5
I'd say combination as well.
They built Taker up strong the whole year so I can see the fans taking notice of em.As far as Hogan goes, That was the year in which I noticed fans getting tired of the act.
And once again I'll throw in the classic Bobby line.... HULKAMANIA IS DEAD,LONG LIVE THE UNDERTAKER!!!
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Post by jason88cubs on Nov 30, 2021 17:08:13 GMT -5
I'd say combination as well. They built Taker up strong the whole year so I can see the fans taking notice of em.As far as Hogan goes, That was the year in which I noticed fans getting tired of the act. And once again I'll throw in the classic Bobby line.... HULKAMANIA IS DEAD,LONG LIVE THE UNDERTAKER!!! It's funny because I remember being younger renting VHS tapes and knowing hogan would win everytime pretty much lol |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 30, 2021 17:16:09 GMT -5
Probably a combination of both. If you look at Wrestlemania VIII just a few months later, Undertaker was a complete baby face good guy! So fans were cheering him whether it was against Hogan, or against a heel like Jake Roberts. Why do you think he was so over? Like I said he didn't talk, not great matches technically. Was it his look? mystique?
He had an aura about him. Andre the Giant had that aura, because of his size and height. Undertaker had that aura, because in 1991 not everyone was smartened to the business of wrestling yet. Undertaker couldn't be hurt. He would take anything the good guy had and come back for more. He was like what Hogan was in the 80s, only darker.
But as others said, the style was changing in 1991. Music was about Nirvana, Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, Metallica, etc. Undertaker represented that. As 80s kids we were now growing into teenagers into the 90s. So we change. Our tastes change. Goodbye Hogan, Hello Undertaker!
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Post by jason88cubs on Nov 30, 2021 17:28:58 GMT -5
Why do you think he was so over? Like I said he didn't talk, not great matches technically. Was it his look? mystique?
He had an aura about him. Andre the Giant had that aura, because of his size and height. Undertaker had that aura, because in 1991 not everyone was smartened to the business of wrestling yet. Undertaker couldn't be hurt. He would take anything the good guy had and come back for more. He was like what Hogan was in the 80s, only darker.
But as others said, the style was changing in 1991. Music was about Nirvana, Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, Metallica, etc. Undertaker represented that. As 80s kids we were now growing into teenagers into the 90s. So we change. Our tastes change. Goodbye Hogan, Hello Undertaker!
Interesting. See I was born in 88 so I missed all this as it was happening |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 30, 2021 19:28:58 GMT -5
He had an aura about him. Andre the Giant had that aura, because of his size and height. Undertaker had that aura, because in 1991 not everyone was smartened to the business of wrestling yet. Undertaker couldn't be hurt. He would take anything the good guy had and come back for more. He was like what Hogan was in the 80s, only darker.
But as others said, the style was changing in 1991. Music was about Nirvana, Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, Metallica, etc. Undertaker represented that. As 80s kids we were now growing into teenagers into the 90s. So we change. Our tastes change. Goodbye Hogan, Hello Undertaker!
Interesting. See I was born in 88 so I missed all this as it was happening
I was born in 1980, so I lived through the Hulkamania WWF era as I was growing up. By 1991, I still did like Hulk Hogan, but then I was only 11 yrs old when Survivor Series happened. By 1993 when Hogan beat Yokozuna for the WWF Title at Wrestlemania IX, I was so far removed from being a Hogan fan. I would have been okay with Hogan and Beefcake winning the Tag Titles, because that was something new and fresh for Hogan. But that WWF Title win was not needed. Everyone my age was a Bret Hart fan over Hogan.
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Post by Mongo Bears on Nov 30, 2021 21:16:26 GMT -5
Undertaker was that over.
He was big and scary and I liked it. I was always a Hogan guy but that’s because of how impressive he was. Undertaker was great then.
I stopped liking undertaker when he dropped the western mortician gimmick though and I consider myself not an undertaker fan overall.
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Post by LA Times on Nov 30, 2021 21:21:21 GMT -5
IMO Summerslam 1991 was the end of the Hulkamania Era with the Ultimate Warrior getting fired and Hulk Hogan leaving to make movies. The times were a changin.
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Post by Scott! on Nov 30, 2021 21:30:08 GMT -5
I'm maybe of a different era mindset here being born in '93 and only going back and actually watching the match and years to come, but I'll throw my opinion in anyway.
If you look at it from where both would go from here, Hogan was still cheered at Wrestlemania 8 but I think that had more to do with the fact it was against Sid. Undertaker after it would really take off and be a cool guy to cheer for, with the gimmick he had. His run with Jake and turn to face him at 'Mania 8 was well done and I think it had to do with Paul Bearer as well. They were edgy in the sense that he had a gimmick never done before and it was done well enough that people were interested. I think the younger fans who hadn't watch in the 80's were more drawn to it than they were Hogan at the time.
Hogan had a huge fan base, but it's like the kids of today that grew up and grew out of it (AKA John Cena). He couldn't survive with the same act for the next 5 years in WWF or else you'd have seen even more fans turn against him. I think that's a booking problem more than a Hogan problem. I mean, look at his WCW run. It worked because he was turned and led the nWo, and his fan base grew yet again because it was totally different than anything he'd done previous.
Same as Undertaker at that point, if you get me.
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dixol
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Post by dixol on Nov 30, 2021 22:57:59 GMT -5
I think it was more anti-Hogan. Undertaker didn’t seem that over to me. I remember being surprised that he got the title shot because he had only been in the company for a year and only had 1 real feud vs Warrior that didn’t really go anywhere. A lot of people were getting tired of Hogan’s act. And grunge didn’t take hold until 92. Nirvana topped the charts in January for the 1st time and spring/summer was the rise of grunge.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Dec 1, 2021 22:13:46 GMT -5
Another Survivor Series 91 topic! Thanks to Brain and his awesome retro nights If you watch the match you see alot of people cheering for Taker and booing Hogan. There was some anti Hogan sign and some pro Taker signs 91 was a interesting year because society was changing, 80s hair metal was gone or dying (unfortunately) as Grunge was making waves, 80s programming was ending or near end (Cosby show, Cheers) and newer more loud, maybe filthy? stuff was coming in (Roseanne, SImpsons,) So my question is was Taker really over that time? or was it more of a Anti Hogan thing. Basically if you are going against Hogan we are rooting for you. People tired of the cheesy Hogan stuff liking the dark Undertaker gimmick.
I liked Taker but he didn't talk, didn't have fantastic matches, but in that match people were cheering hard for him It was the first time I remember a crowd being against Hulk (I'm not counting his match with Warrior in this, because they were still Hogan fans) Then of course Rumble 92 he was booed Mania 93 he was cheered, booed at King of Ring 93 Just curious on thoughs
Hogan fatigue I’d say. And it all started when Hogan beat Slaughter at Mania 7 because it just felt like more of the same, I think that’s when people started to grow tired of Hulk. Taker started the trend of getting better reactions, then it was Sid. Undertaker was different though but I don’t know, at that time I never felt the inclination to cheer him. I liked the character, I was mildly afraid of the character being 5 lol… |
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Post by Its Tiffy Time on Dec 2, 2021 8:45:33 GMT -5
Wasnt there gonna be a Hogan/Roberts feud but it got scrapped because Jake was getting cheered over Hulk?
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Dec 2, 2021 9:31:39 GMT -5
Wasnt there gonna be a Hogan/Roberts feud but it got scrapped because Jake was getting cheered over Hulk? I think that was on Jakes dvd. I take that with a grain of salt though because, yes Jake was getting over but he wasn’t anywhere near threatening to Hogan like Warrior was in 89-90, and Hogan put him over clean. I think Hogan gets a bad rap at times. Even in Bret Harts book, I feel like he recounts the events honestly, I just don’t get the sense that Hogan was this backstabbing politician. (I’m sure he politicked but who didn’t) but, I don’t think every time a new star came along it was like, let me snuff them out! Like in Bret’s book, when Bret got wind that Hogan wouldn’t drop the belt to him, Hogan took Bret right to Vince and was angry about it…so I don’t know. I think people connect dots sometimes with Hogan because he was THE GUY, Hogan was the first to truly have that kind of success in wrestling so I don’t know what’s it like to be in his shoes. |
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Post by jason88cubs on Dec 2, 2021 9:39:03 GMT -5
Wasnt there gonna be a Hogan/Roberts feud but it got scrapped because Jake was getting cheered over Hulk? I think that was on Jakes dvd. I take that with a grain of salt though because, yes Jake was getting over but he wasn’t anywhere near threatening to Hogan like Warrior was in 89-90, and Hogan put him over clean. I think Hogan gets a bad rap at times. Even in Bret Harts book, I feel like he recounts the events honestly, I just don’t get the sense that Hogan was this backstabbing politician. (I’m sure he politicked but who didn’t) but, I don’t think every time a new star came along it was like, let me snuff them out! Like in Bret’s book, when Bret got wind that Hogan wouldn’t drop the belt to him, Hogan took Bret right to Vince and was angry about it…so I don’t know. I think people connect dots sometimes with Hogan because he was THE GUY, Hogan was the first to truly have that kind of success in wrestling so I don’t know what’s it like to be in his shoes. If I recall Jake have Hulk a DDT on the Snake Pit and fans were chanting "DDT" so Vince nixed it |
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Dec 2, 2021 10:11:12 GMT -5
I think that was on Jakes dvd. I take that with a grain of salt though because, yes Jake was getting over but he wasn’t anywhere near threatening to Hogan like Warrior was in 89-90, and Hogan put him over clean. I think Hogan gets a bad rap at times. Even in Bret Harts book, I feel like he recounts the events honestly, I just don’t get the sense that Hogan was this backstabbing politician. (I’m sure he politicked but who didn’t) but, I don’t think every time a new star came along it was like, let me snuff them out! Like in Bret’s book, when Bret got wind that Hogan wouldn’t drop the belt to him, Hogan took Bret right to Vince and was angry about it…so I don’t know. I think people connect dots sometimes with Hogan because he was THE GUY, Hogan was the first to truly have that kind of success in wrestling so I don’t know what’s it like to be in his shoes. If I recall Jake have Hulk a DDT on the Snake Pit and fans were chanting "DDT" so Vince nixed it And that’s the thing, Vince nixed it because Hogan is HIS cash cow, but it’ll be Hogan that politicked. The reason Vince nixed the angle is obviously he didn’t want Jake causing a divide, especially being that they knew they couldn’t count on Jake at that time to carry any sort of ball if he were to overthrow Hogan in popularity (which I don’t think was even a possibility). If anything, Jake would have caused a disruption but he was never a potential threat to Hogans crown like Warrior was. |
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Post by BoJack Hogan on Dec 2, 2021 11:34:06 GMT -5
Definitely a combination. Undertaker was a new cool gimmick, and Hogan had been on top for almost ten years at that point. I was still very pro-Hogan, but I look at 1991 as the beginning of the end. Lots of Hogan's young fans were either aging out of wrestling altogether or getting tired of seeing the same thing over and over. In my mind this is when Terry Bollea the person started to derail Hogan a bit since he could sense the end coming and was so desperate to hang on. He even said in the Hulk Still Rules dvd (I think it was when they were covering this time period) that Vince said it was time to wind it down. He admitted that it was hard for him to take (which also aligns with the time table of Hogan's reputation in wrestling starting to take a fall).
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Post by Nivro™ on Dec 3, 2021 22:57:55 GMT -5
Hogan was still hugely over. He was getting some of if not the loudest pops still. He wasnt on his peak any more though like mid 80s & had been around for quite awhile. I can understand why others were getting cheers.
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