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Post by hbkjason on Feb 3, 2022 11:52:03 GMT -5
I know I have not done one of these in ages, but something in my mind sparked when reading some of the comments in the post about WM loses that bothered people.
We have all seen the video of Lex Luger with the WWF Title and heard how be blabed to some journalist and stuff like that. What I am asking is not what if Lex Luger walked out of WrestleMania X as the WWF Champion. I am asking, what if Lex Luger beat Yokozuna, but then lost to Bret Hart at the end of the show?
The Garden loved Bret Hart so I think the reaction that Luger would have gotten going up against him would have been very interesting. I really do not think it would have been a 50/50 split, if anything I could see portions of the crowd booing Lex!
Had this gone down how would Lex have been booked for the rest of 1994? Would have tried again to become the WWF Champion? Would he still have his thing with the Corporation that made him look like a freaking moron? I do not see him being in the WWF title picture, I think Bret vs Owen is still a sure thing for the summer and at best I could see Lex Luger vs Bret Hart at the 1994 King of the Ring.
I would love to hear your thoughts on how you think Lex winning the title from Yokozuna, but dropping it to Bret later that night would have changed things or if you think the rest of 94 just plays out the way that it did. In this scenario I think the fans in the Gardens reaction to Lex vs Bret would have been the most interesting thing about this.
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Post by MKSavage on Feb 3, 2022 12:30:47 GMT -5
I think that would have been interesting. If they had gone that route, I definitely think the Lex should have turned heel at Summer Slam. Make him turn heel and join DiBiase because he was frustrated that he lost the title. Make it seem like he doesn't think that he could have beaten Bret fare and square so he joined the Million Dollar Corporation for help. Then have him feud with Bret at the end of the year and into 1995. If they had didn't go that route, have Lex take Backlund's spot for Survivor Series 1994 (as a baby face), then he turns on Bret with the help of Owen and the Million Dollar Corporation and wins the WWF title. Bret and Luger could have the rematch at the Royal Rumble, have Owen interfere costing Bret the win and the belt. Also have Diesel enter in the Rumble and win, last eliminating HBK. Then Lex and Diesel face off at WM11 for the belt, with Diesel winning (since that seems to be where Vince wanted to go). Bret and Owen could face off at WM11 to end their feud; it could be a tag team match between Bret and Davey vs. Owen and Yoko (replacing Neidhart). At the first In Your House PPV, you can have Diesel vs. Shawn (just moving their feud and angle down one PPV, the night after the event they could have Sid attach Shawn turning HBK face), Bret vs. Lex (to give Bret his win over Lex), and Owen/Yoko vs. the Smoking Gunns (for the Tag Titles).
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Post by The Brain on Feb 3, 2022 15:28:35 GMT -5
Heel turn all the way. He finally wins the big one but loses it the same night? Yeah that has heel turn written all over it. Like MKSavage said, turn em at SSlam(which to me wouldve been the best option) then have the match with Bret at SSeries
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Warriah'
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Post by Warriah' on Feb 3, 2022 16:42:09 GMT -5
I just said this in another thread but Luger losing to Bret and becoming the Narcissist again is peak fantasy booking
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Post by MKSavage on Feb 3, 2022 16:50:47 GMT -5
I just said this in another thread but Luger losing to Bret and becoming the Narcissist again is peak fantasy booking Yeah. I think they gave it a shot and the USA gimmick just didn't work. Going back to the Narcissist gimmick would have been great. I think Luger is better as a heel, he comes off naturally arrogant. Plus, I think there was more for that gimmick than the USA one. Plus, in 1994 and 1995, the WWF was really lacking on the top heel personalities, having Luger would have helped.
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Feb 3, 2022 18:20:14 GMT -5
Fantasy booking for Lex is fun because he just floated around aimlessly for most of his WWF run after WrestleMania X. However, Bret had a fantastic 1994 so I'm not sure if anything involving Luger would be better than what we actually got.
Bret/Owen was easily the feud of the year and those two had excellent matches. Then you had the crazy Bob Backlund heel turn which was done so well and lead to one of the best storytelling matches in wrestling history at Survivor Series.
I would love a do-over for Lex, but the stuff Bret did in 1994 was fine as is in my opinion and I don't think I would change anything. 1995 is a different story though as both guys seemed lost in the shuffle and a hot feud between the two would have been a breath of fresh air during a very stale time for the company.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2022 20:06:49 GMT -5
they coulda had piper as ref for luger/yoko and mr perfect ref for bret/luger.
so perfect can turn on luger causing him to lose, so he didnt have to lose clean to bret in a good guy vs good guy match.
but then yea, have him turn back to narcissist after perfect leaves again.
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Post by Its Tiffy Time on Feb 3, 2022 20:07:08 GMT -5
it would've been a make good giving how stupid he looked winning by countout at Summerslam and celebrating like he won the title.
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Warriah'
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Post by Warriah' on Feb 4, 2022 3:57:54 GMT -5
Fantasy booking for Lex is fun because he just floated around aimlessly for most of his WWF run after WrestleMania X. However, Bret had a fantastic 1994 so I'm not sure if anything involving Luger would be better than what we actually got. Bret/Owen was easily the feud of the year and those two had excellent matches. Then you had the crazy Bob Backlund heel turn which was done so well and lead to one of the best storytelling matches in wrestling history at Survivor Series. I would love a do-over for Lex, but the stuff Bret did in 1994 was fine as is in my opinion and I don't think I would change anything. 1995 is a different story though as both guys seemed lost in the shuffle and a hot feud between the two would have been a breath of fresh air during a very stale time for the company. Technically everything in 94 could have played out exactly how it did if they just had Luger win the belt at Summerslam and drop it back due to shenanigans ahead of Survivor Series
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Feb 4, 2022 12:06:03 GMT -5
If Lex beat Yoko instead of Bret.... I think it would have went something like this.
Lex Luger would celebrate with the WWF Title at the end of Mania with all the good guys. Owen Hart would come out and look at Lex and then turn around and leave.
Lex would defend the WWF Title vs. Diesel at the KOTR, and Bret would interfere in the Crush/Yoko vs. Headshrinkers tag title match.
At SummerSlam, Lex Luger vs. Owen Hart would happen in a cage match in a "brother vs. brother" match, which would make zero sense since neither are related to each other. While Tatanka will start a war with Bret by saying Bret sold out to Ted DiBiase and they would have a match at SummerSlam.
Lex Luger would go on to lose the WWF Title to Bob Backlund after Owen makes Helen Hart throw in the towel on Lex. Which makes even less sense than their SummerSlam match they had.
Lex would go on to have a 60 minute iron man match with HBK at Wrestlemania 12, while Bret Hart would show up on the first WCW Nitro and challenge Hulk Hogan, along the side of his good friend Sting - who he just met minutes earlier.
So that sums up how it would be if Lex had won instead of Bret! Ha ha ha
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Post by jason88cubs on Feb 4, 2022 18:33:10 GMT -5
Then at King of Ring or Summerslam, Yoko could have challenged Bret
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Post by CM Tusk on Feb 4, 2022 18:46:24 GMT -5
Lex rightfully should have never been the WWF champion and Bret should have won the Rumble by himself. If they were going to do two winners it should have been Owen, not Luger. Open Wrestlemania X with Bret vs Yoko and close with Bret vs Owen.
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Post by hbkjason on Feb 5, 2022 4:44:48 GMT -5
Lex rightfully should have never been the WWF champion and Bret should have won the Rumble by himself. If they were going to do two winners it should have been Owen, not Luger. Open Wrestlemania X with Bret vs Yoko and close with Bret vs Owen. I have always said that Vince never fully went all in with Bret. He was always looking for the next big thing, but he already had it in Bret Hart! He should have fully focused on him. If anything Lex should have been used as a tool to get Bret over even more. I loved Bret Hart as a kid, but his stuff has well and truly aged like a fine wine and I appreciate him even more as an adult. His in ring work I feel has aged better than pretty much any other WWF main eventer.
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Feb 5, 2022 6:14:30 GMT -5
Lex rightfully should have never been the WWF champion and Bret should have won the Rumble by himself. If they were going to do two winners it should have been Owen, not Luger. Open Wrestlemania X with Bret vs Yoko and close with Bret vs Owen. I have always said that Vince never fully went all in with Bret. He was always looking for the next big thing, but he already had it in Bret Hart! He should have fully focused on him. If anything Lex should have been used as a tool to get Bret over even more. I loved Bret Hart as a kid, but his stuff has well and truly aged like a fine wine and I appreciate him even more as an adult. His in ring work I feel has aged better than pretty much any other WWF main eventer. I agree with this 100%. His run with the belt from WrestleMania X to Survivor Series 1994 was the only reign where it felt like Vince was fully invested as Bret being THE guy. Every other time it felt like a stop gap solution to put the title on him as if Vince knew it was the safe move to make while he thought up his next big idea or champion. His inaugural reign felt like a trial run for sure. They were trying to get away from the Hogan/Warrior image and heavily emphasized his ability as an in-ring technician and the "hardest-working" champion in company history. Of course, they tossed it all away for Hogan and reverted right back to their old ways. Bret never even received a rematch and was pushed aside for Lex who was clearly Vince's new pet project. If Vince had it his way, Lex would have been the guy on top and Bret could have stayed tucked away as the reliable workhorse in the upper part of the card. He only went back to Bret when it was clear that Lex wasn't nearly as over as they wanted him to be and the fans let them know it was Bret who they were solidly behind. Even during his longest run with the belt in 1994 when Bret was arguably at his peak, it is now clear Vince was already looking ahead to Diesel. The Bret/Backlund angle was so good and their match at Survivor Series told such a fantastic story. However, the impact of that whole program was immediately diminished the second Diesel squashed Backlund for the belt a few days later. Bret spent most of the next year spinning his wheels in meaningless feuds until once again Vince put the belt back on him because Diesel as a babyface wasn't getting over. Notice the theme here. I don't always agree with Bret even though he is my all-time favorite, but that particular reign was criminally thrown under the rug as it was all about Shawn then. It felt like an afterthought and only happened to have him pass the torch to HBK. You can even make a similar comparison to his final run as champion except this time the roles were reversed as both he and Shawn were now heels. Bret and the Hart Foundation angle were the hottest thing going in the WWF in 1997 until Vince decided to go with Shawn again. Bret was the World champion wrestling on the undercard while Shawn main evented back-to-back PPVs leading up to their final showdown in Montreal. Vince never wanted Bret to be the guy. He just always knew the belt was safe when he had it and only put it on him when some of his other experiments didn't pan out. Bret was reliable and believable as champion which bought Vince time to work on how to build his next champion. They were constantly looking beyond him.
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Post by jason88cubs on Feb 5, 2022 10:54:34 GMT -5
I have always said that Vince never fully went all in with Bret. He was always looking for the next big thing, but he already had it in Bret Hart! He should have fully focused on him. If anything Lex should have been used as a tool to get Bret over even more. I loved Bret Hart as a kid, but his stuff has well and truly aged like a fine wine and I appreciate him even more as an adult. His in ring work I feel has aged better than pretty much any other WWF main eventer. I agree with this 100%. His run with the belt from WrestleMania X to Survivor Series 1994 was the only reign where it felt like Vince was fully invested as Bret being THE guy. Every other time it felt like a stop gap solution to put the title on him as if Vince knew it was the safe move to make while he thought up his next big idea or champion. His inaugural reign felt like a trial run for sure. They were trying to get away from the Hogan/Warrior image and heavily emphasized his ability as an in-ring technician and the "hardest-working" champion in company history. Of course, they tossed it all away for Hogan and reverted right back to their old ways. Bret never even received a rematch and was pushed aside for Lex who was clearly Vince's new pet project. If Vince had it his way, Lex would have been the guy on top and Bret could have stayed tucked away as the reliable workhorse in the upper part of the card. He only went back to Bret when it was clear that Lex wasn't nearly as over as they wanted him to be and the fans let them know it was Bret who they were solidly behind. Even during his longest run with the belt in 1994 when Bret was arguably at his peak, it is now clear Vince was already looking ahead to Diesel. The Bret/Backlund angle was so good and their match at Survivor Series told such a fantastic story. However, the impact of that whole program was immediately diminished the second Diesel squashed Backlund for the belt a few days later. Bret spent most of the next year spinning his wheels in meaningless feuds until once again Vince put the belt back on him because Diesel as a babyface wasn't getting over. Notice the theme here. I don't always agree with Bret even though he is my all-time favorite, but that particular reign was criminally thrown under the rug as it was all about Shawn then. It felt like an afterthought and only happened to have him pass the torch to HBK. You can even make a similar comparison to his final run as champion except this time the roles were reversed as both he and Shawn were now heels. Bret and the Hart Foundation angle were the hottest thing going in the WWF in 1997 until Vince decided to go with Shawn again. Bret was the World champion wrestling on the undercard while Shawn main evented back-to-back PPVs leading up to their final showdown in Montreal. Vince never wanted Bret to be the guy. He just always knew the belt was safe when he had it and only put it on him when some of his other experiments didn't pan out. Bret was reliable and believable as champion which bought Vince time to work on how to build his next champion. They were constantly looking beyond him. I was gonna create a thread about what exactly you and HBKJASON said.
Vince was never fully behind Bret
Bret was that dependable guy who would never say no or cause trouble
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Warriah'
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Post by Warriah' on Feb 7, 2022 7:11:49 GMT -5
I feel like people overlook how over Luger still was even after Summerslam 93.
At the 94 rumble he got a huge pop, and they popped big for his announcement as the winner (not so much afterwards, as the crowd clearly favoured Bret). But again at Mania X his pop was massive. Even at the 95 Rumble, Luger probably got the biggest pop of the night.
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Post by JokerFC on Feb 19, 2022 19:31:34 GMT -5
Interesting scenario...one I'd never considered either to be honest.
I think him turning heel after WMX on Raw in a tag match with Bret would have been dynamite & hot as hell for a feud.
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