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Post by JokerFC on Jul 14, 2022 12:48:40 GMT -5
So in late 99 Russo & Ferrara come up with re-creating the nWo with World Champ Bret Hart, Tag Champs Outsiders, US Champ Jeff Jarrett & Scott Steiner. On paper not a bad bunch to be thrown together but man alive even without WCWs hairbrained booking was this faction absolutely snakebit from day #1. within 2 weeks of it starting you get...
Bret Hart sidelined with a concussion
Jeff Jarrett sidelined with a concussion
Nash sidelined with Back and bicep injuries
Hall falls off the wagon HARD.
My God even if the best creative in wrestling history had been in operation? They would have struggled here....thoughts, discussions memories of this incarnation? also a question...
Would history look back on this faction and its inception more favourably if it were to be called something else?
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Post by The Brain on Jul 14, 2022 12:57:34 GMT -5
Was not a fan. Just look at the name ''NWO 2000'', If that doesnt scream flop I dont know what does.
Looking back it's a shame Bret had to be involved in this stinker.And this was the end of his career too.Damn shame.
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Post by hbkjason on Jul 14, 2022 14:39:49 GMT -5
I have to be honest and say that at first, I loved the concept, well moreso the line up of guys that made the group, but and did this thing derail fast. I think that if the group was called something else it would have been better. Also a major problem I have with WCW in 2000 to 2001 is that most of the stuff that happened during this time is just a blur! I can remember WWF and ECW like it was yesterday, but the last year of WCW had so much crap thrown against the wall it was like a random show each week and as a result, I have a hard time remembering the majority of it.
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nibs92
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 29, 2008 5:47:21 GMT -5
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Post by nibs92 on Jul 14, 2022 16:17:37 GMT -5
Was never really a fan of WCW so no real memories of this. The bit that bothered me about the whole NWO thing was the saturation of it. The original three member team had such an impact on the wrestling industry as a whole. Over time the whole concept became diluted with wolfpacks, LWO’s, 2000 etc. by 99 the a*se had been ripped out of the concept.
No name change or creative genius was ever going to turn it in to a success imo.
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Post by JokerFC on Jul 14, 2022 17:39:27 GMT -5
I have to be honest and say that at first, I loved the concept, well moreso the line up of guys that made the group, but and did this thing derail fast. I think that if the group was called something else it would have been better. Also a major problem I have with WCW in 2000 to 2001 is that most of the stuff that happened during this time is just a blur! I can remember WWF and ECW like it was yesterday, but the last year of WCW had so much crap thrown against the wall it was like a random show each week and as a result, I have a hard time remembering the majority of it. Ya blitzkrieg booking man. I was so burnt out by WCW when the New Blood angle started I was tuning out. Was gone for good by May 2000 |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jul 14, 2022 20:32:35 GMT -5
IMO WCW felt naked without the nWo so being a kid at the time I was delighted that they were returning.
All the injuries killed it from the get go.
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Joined on: Feb 22, 2010 21:37:52 GMT -5
Posts: 2,807
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Jul 14, 2022 21:17:59 GMT -5
I have to be honest and say that at first, I loved the concept, well moreso the line up of guys that made the group, but and did this thing derail fast. I think that if the group was called something else it would have been better. Also a major problem I have with WCW in 2000 to 2001 is that most of the stuff that happened during this time is just a blur! I can remember WWF and ECW like it was yesterday, but the last year of WCW had so much crap thrown against the wall it was like a random show each week and as a result, I have a hard time remembering the majority of it. Ya blitzkrieg booking man. I was so burnt out by WCW when the New Blood angle started I was tuning out. Was gone for good by May 2000 Even the WWF programming back in those days was pretty chaotic on a week-to-week basis. The big difference, however, was that the chaos happening on WCW at the time was simply nonsensical madness which would continue until their demise a year later. As for the nWo 2000, while it was stacked with big names it was destined to fail. The whole nWo angle in general was a shell of what it was. It meant nothing anymore to be a part of that group and it was obvious this was a last gasp to keep their biggest cash cow on life support. The lWo left a bigger impact than nWo 2000. |
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Post by PJ on Jul 15, 2022 5:55:24 GMT -5
I felt by that point the whole NWO gimmick had been beaten to death with a stick. And any reference to a new NWO incarnations should have been put to rest for at least a decade. I mean there was NWO where by the end it seemed like everyone and their mother was in. Then the Wolfpac and LWO. It was overkill.
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Post by The Brain on Jul 15, 2022 8:06:18 GMT -5
I lost interest in the NWO angle as soon as the Wolfpack stuff started.Then you had the LWO, Black and White group A and B. Like PJ said overkill |
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nibs92
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 29, 2008 5:47:21 GMT -5
Posts: 2,351
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Post by nibs92 on Jul 15, 2022 9:06:02 GMT -5
I felt by that point the whole NWO gimmick had been beaten to death with a stick. And any reference to a new NWO incarnations should have been put to rest for at least a decade. I mean there was NWO where by the end it seemed like everyone and their mother was in. Then the Wolfpac and LWO. It was overkill. Completely. When the likes of Horace Hogan and Vincent being involved, the whole concept lost the elitist feeling that made the NWO a success in the first place. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 15, 2022 17:46:20 GMT -5
nWo had been done to death by this point, but even has the group been called something else, I just don’t think it works. Bret stuck out like a sore thumb from the other members.
Had they don’t something with Nash, Hall, Steiner, and Jarrett, and not call them the nWo, something may have come of it, but as it was, I wasn’t into the group even had they remained healthy.
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Post by Mongo Bears on Jul 15, 2022 18:42:17 GMT -5
By the time Bret hart was in nwo I had already finished watching wrestling.
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Joined on: Feb 22, 2010 21:37:52 GMT -5
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Jul 16, 2022 7:51:53 GMT -5
I lost interest in the NWO angle as soon as the Wolfpack stuff started.Then you had the LWO, Black and White group A and B. Like PJ said overkill Nothing will every top the glory days of 1996-97, but when the nWo initially splintered off and formed the Wolfpack I think that actually kind of rejuvenated the brand overall. The Wolfpack was OVER! Every week when that awesome tune hit the crowd would erupt and they always got some of the best pops of the night. If you wore a Wolfpack shirt at my middle school you would get "too sweet" salutes all day in the hallways. They were the new cool group in WCW. I will even argue that for a time there in 1998, the Wolpack was on par with Degeneration X in terms of popularity. The nail in the coffin for me was right after the "Finger Poke of Doom" when they merged the two factions back together like some sort of experimental bastard child. That is when the nWo completely fell off a cliff which - maybe not coincidentally - is also when WCW began its downward spiral into oblivion. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jul 16, 2022 9:18:36 GMT -5
I liked it!
I did, I felt like it was a small enough group that had star power that could easily be a threat to the champions of WCW.
However, with all that being said.... I hated it too.
I hated it because Bret Hart just had the baby face run of his life in WCW for those few short months. He was over like rover finally there, and had some great matches with the likes of Sting and Chris Benoit, and then they have him and Goldberg win the WCW Tag Titles too, and Bret is riding high as the man in WCW and then.... unnecessary heel turn.
It shouldn't have shocked me, being they flip flopped Bret so many times within two years of his WCW run, but this time it seemed like Bret was gonna be the main baby face WCW guy for a while.
The NWO 2000 name is taken from Russo's WWF Creative Book. He must have looked up LOD 2000 and thought, NWO 2000 will do the trick!
The black and silver is a nice touch though.
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Post by JokerFC on Jul 18, 2022 2:55:05 GMT -5
Lots of people moan about Vincent in the nWo....but he played the vital role of bullet stopper in the group. Somebody the babyfaces could whale on...get the pop and still leave the fans thirsting for the likes of Nash etc to get beat on. plus he was there when the original group was riding high....yet most cite his inclusion with the decline of the group. It quite literally had nothing to do with it.
Interesting thoughts & opinions here in this thread.... Bret's heel turn was pure lunacy when you think about it. fans were big into him and he had huge sympathy after Owens tragic accident.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 18, 2022 7:30:43 GMT -5
I lost interest in the NWO angle as soon as the Wolfpack stuff started.Then you had the LWO, Black and White group A and B. Like PJ said overkill Nothing will every top the glory days of 1996-97, but when the nWo initially splintered off and formed the Wolfpack I think that actually kind of rejuvenated the brand overall. The Wolfpack was OVER! Every week when that awesome tune hit the crowd would erupt and they always got some of the best pops of the night. If you wore a Wolfpack shirt at my middle school you would get "too sweet" salutes all day in the hallways. They were the new cool group in WCW. I will even argue that for a time there in 1998, the Wolpack was on par with Degeneration X in terms of popularity. The nail in the coffin for me was right after the "Finger Poke of Doom" when they merged the two factions back together like some sort of experimental bastard child. That is when the nWo completely fell off a cliff which - maybe not coincidentally - is also when WCW began its downward spiral into oblivion. The funny thing is that following the Finger Poke of Doom, Nitro’s ratings actually went up for the next few weeks. Fans wanted to see Goldberg end the nWo once and for all…so WCW logically followed this up with Hogan/Flair and we all know how the WCW ship went from there. |
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nibs92
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Joined on: May 29, 2008 5:47:21 GMT -5
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Post by nibs92 on Jul 18, 2022 11:20:43 GMT -5
Lots of people moan about Vincent in the nWo....but he played the vital role of bullet stopper in the group. Somebody the babyfaces could whale on...get the pop and still leave the fans thirsting for the likes of Nash etc to get beat on. plus he was there when the original group was riding high....yet most cite his inclusion with the decline of the group. It quite literally had nothing to do with it. Interesting thoughts & opinions here in this thread.... Bret's heel turn was pure lunacy when you think about it. fans were big into him and he had huge sympathy after Owens tragic accident. Vincent had nothing to do with the direct decline of the NWO. The concept of the likes of Vincent being in the group is what I feel was part of the problem. I!m maybe comparing apples and pears here but I’m thinking of the likes of the Four Horsemen and DX. To me, there was always a sense of equality within those groups and that being a part of them had an exclusivity to it. It never sat well with me thinking of the former Virgil being on par with the likes of Hogan. I’ve always thought it was the beginning of the oversaturation of it. The Outsiders was a fantastic angle and the addition of Hogan was genius. The likes of Savage, the Giant and Syxx were fine . And running the NWO Japan angle in NJPW was ok as well as the majority of the casual audience probably weren’t even aware. But when mid to lower mid card such as Vincent are involved, it gives the impression that anyone can join (IMO). I totally take on board that Vincent could be beaten on while protecting the likes of Nash and Co, but Syxx could have easily been that guy. As talented as Waltman is, he could easily hang with the likes of Luger, DDP et al and taken the beating. I don’t see that taking away from the aura of the NWO and would leave the fans thirsting on the big players getting their comeuppance. |
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Post by MKSavage on Jul 18, 2022 15:16:07 GMT -5
Lots of people moan about Vincent in the nWo....but he played the vital role of bullet stopper in the group. Somebody the babyfaces could whale on...get the pop and still leave the fans thirsting for the likes of Nash etc to get beat on. plus he was there when the original group was riding high....yet most cite his inclusion with the decline of the group. It quite literally had nothing to do with it. Interesting thoughts & opinions here in this thread.... Bret's heel turn was pure lunacy when you think about it. fans were big into him and he had huge sympathy after Owens tragic accident. I think the other reason for the inclusion of all the other members, you really couldn't believably take over an organization with just 5 or 6 members. You needed more soldiers - so to speak. Otherwise, the numbers game would always be in WCW's favor. Plus, keeping people guessing as to who would join next kept people interested. And yeah, they had no clue how to use Bret. It seemed for a time, even before the Owen tragedy, they only used Bret to turn on people. One week he was WCW, a few weeks later he was NWO. Then he hated Hogan, then he liked Hogan. Even as a fan of Bret, this was getting annoying. It's a shame, in 1999 they finally seemed to be doing something with Bret, and he was getting over with the fans, then they just turned him heel and shortly after that he was done. Shame. Nothing will every top the glory days of 1996-97, but when the nWo initially splintered off and formed the Wolfpack I think that actually kind of rejuvenated the brand overall. The Wolfpack was OVER! Every week when that awesome tune hit the crowd would erupt and they always got some of the best pops of the night. If you wore a Wolfpack shirt at my middle school you would get "too sweet" salutes all day in the hallways. They were the new cool group in WCW. I will even argue that for a time there in 1998, the Wolpack was on par with Degeneration X in terms of popularity. The nail in the coffin for me was right after the "Finger Poke of Doom" when they merged the two factions back together like some sort of experimental bastard child. That is when the nWo completely fell off a cliff which - maybe not coincidentally - is also when WCW began its downward spiral into oblivion. The funny thing is that following the Finger Poke of Doom, Nitro’s ratings actually went up for the next few weeks. Fans wanted to see Goldberg end the nWo once and for all…so WCW logically followed this up with Hogan/Flair and we all know how the WCW ship went from there. That's true. WCW in 1999 still had good ratings, they were just always behind WWF at this point. But I believe they still held 3.0 or higher ratings for the entire year. But their insistence of rehashing old feuds instead of creating new ones I think really led to their downfall. In 1999, you were still getting Hogan/Flair, Hogan/Savage, Flair/Sting, Sting/Luger, etc. They needed something new. Most of those were rehashes of feuds that people had seen for over a decade. The ultimate goal should have been to get to Hogan/Goldberg at a big event. Honestly, the person who should have ended Goldberg's streak should have been Hogan (through heel tatics). This way Goldberg and Hogan can build to another big match with Goldberg winning. |
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Post by The Brain on Jul 18, 2022 15:45:01 GMT -5
I love Naitch but him main eventing with Hogan in 99 was a very bad idea.Plus it led to those awful Flair in the mental ward segments...
And without question them not doing Goldberg/Hogan for the belt on a PPV is one of the biggest head scratchers of all time.I understand wanting to pop a TV rating but damn the story wrote itself
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Post by MKSavage on Jul 18, 2022 15:47:31 GMT -5
I love Naitch but him main eventing with Hogan in 99 was a very bad idea.Plus it led to those awful Flair in the mental ward segments... And without question them not doing Goldberg/Hogan for the belt on a PPV is one of the biggest head scratchers of all time.I understand wanting to pop a TV rating but damn the story wrote itself Yeah, I have no problem with them having Hogan/Goldberg at the Georgia Dome on TV for free, especially since ratings meant more at the time to the companies, but not getting them in a big feud with Hogan wanting his belt back and culminating the feud at a big PPV or two was ridiculous. |
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