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Post by POOR-ly Cuyler on Jul 25, 2022 14:33:50 GMT -5
I think you’re both kind of right, in a way. I mean if you’re going to have a 4 figure set, the Horsemen makes sense to me. Maybe they over produced it though. I’m not saying they NEVER deserved a spot down line. But the opening lineup on a new elite multipack when up to that point… anything containing more than one elite had failed… you would think they would have been smarter. Who tf gives a shyt about the Four Horsemen? Yes they were big at the time. But they’re not transcendent talent that resonates with every generation like Hogan, Bret, Shawn, Sting, Undertaker etc. The Jim Cornettes of the world will boast about how their wrasslin’ was the best of its time. Um okay. They’re not moving merch now so who gives af?The biggest reactions from SDCC came from… you guessed it… Hogan, Bret, Warrior, Savage, etc. Shawn is the hottest Ultimate right now. That’s reality. Again, not saying they don’t ever deserve a spot. But 1st series in a risky set was a bad idea. Plain and simple. What does merchandise have to do with good wrestling that actually drew real crowds. You didn’t need to sell $30 xxxl shirts to turn a buck. Tickets made money. Not that it wasn’t ever before, but wrestling is embarrassing now. Just because we like toys doesn’t make the show good. |
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jokerjohn
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Post by jokerjohn on Jul 25, 2022 14:51:34 GMT -5
I don't know how anyone would not think of the Horsemen for a possible 4pack release. They are probably one of the most well known groups and fit perfectly for that format. The failure in my opinion may have been lack of value for the price. Imagine that same set if Flair came with a robe and all members had a title. World, US and Tag. Throw in some shirts for Arn and Tully and people would have gone nuts.
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Post by gentlemanjohnny on Jul 25, 2022 14:57:39 GMT -5
I don't know how anyone would not think of the Horsemen for a possible 4pack release. They are probably one of the most well known groups and fit perfectly for that format. The failure in my opinion may have been lack of value for the price. Imagine that same set if Flair came with a robe and all members had a title. World, US and Tag. Throw in some shirts for Arn and Tully and people would have gone nuts. Great point. Flair is one of the flashiest guys out there and they just had him in black trunks. The set was too bland and would’ve been much better with the robe for Flair and belts for the others. |
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Post by POOR-ly Cuyler on Jul 25, 2022 15:01:19 GMT -5
What does merchandise have to do with good wrestling that actually drew real crowds. You didn’t need to sell $30 xxxl shirts to turn a buck. Tickets made money. Not that it wasn’t ever before, but wrestling is embarrassing now. Just because we like toys doesn’t make the show good. My point was moreso that those kinds of talents don’t transcend generations like those other names I mentioned. Many people of all ages can immediately think of great matches and promos at the drop of a hat with Shawn, Stone Cold, Bret, etc. And those names DO move merch, unlike the 4 horsemen. And when did I say wrestling is NOT embarrassing now? Lol I don’t watch the current product at all. But I’d still prefer to watch Brock or Cena over Whippersnapper Jim or the Bangin’ Boulder Brothers. It had Ric Flair in it. I’m not sure how Ric Flair doesn’t transcend generations when there’s literally rap songs about him…Arn Anderson, Daniel Tosh would mention on his Comedy Central show. Tully was just recently a character on tv, and Barry well, you got me there, but he was a ftitl so there’s that. |
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Post by aglassbottlecocacola on Jul 25, 2022 16:43:01 GMT -5
Well, for one, hindsight is already on my side as the 4 pack hardly sold and was clearanced out (I still saw it in stores months after the fact). But overall, it was really underwhelming. I don’t deny their success or placement in wrestling history. But at the time, if a new multi-pack elite line was launching and people were told to submit wish lists… I seriously doubt Barry Windham and Arn Anderson was gracing a whole lot of lists. Look I love Mattel and what they have done overall. But holy hell they have had some misfires, not the least of which is dooming new lines with poor opening lineups. ALL THREE elite multipacks were a disaster. Here are some other lineups that were 100% doomed from the start due to poor roster selection… - the original legends line (everyone knows this story and it has since come back so no need to retread) - Epic Moments (who tf was asking for a Festival of Friendship 🤦♂️) - again the elite multipacks we are discussing - Target Elite 2 Packs (So Mattel’s original elite 2 packs failed miserably… they decide to try again and what they do they open with… the Wild Samoans 🤨). - The TNF line at Walmart —> so much potential here again totally blown. The one set they did get right (BATB) was marred by Sting’s Donkey Kong head and Luger’s boots). The Epic Moments one is especially sickening. Soooooo much potential with that one. Aside from the Hardys, every set was trash. But none of the 4 packs did well, neither the Heenan Family nor the Nitro stars did well. So yes, the 4 packs were a bad idea, but it wasn't a bad idea because they went with the Horsemen, or that the Horsemen were used first. It seems like 4 packs were just too much for most people to pay for at one time. The larger the set, the harder the sell at retail. The cost is higher (fewer impulse purchases) and with each additional figure, the larger the likelihood of a consumer disliking one in the set and passing on the whole thing. Particularly the more Legends (older) oriented the set is. So I'm agreeing with you - I think there's only one potential four pack that would do decently at retail right now, The Bloodline with Heyman. But even the most popular group of the last handful of years would struggle at $80-$85. But overall it has less to do with the lineup choices than the simple fact that 3-4 figures is a big ask for most consumers. You see that with DC and Marvel properties too. |
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crush
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WF 10+ Year Member
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Post by crush on Jul 25, 2022 17:09:19 GMT -5
While I agree that there are some early questionable lineup decisions, 4-packs, 3-packs, and even Elite and Ultimate Two-Packs have never been, and especially now, aren't viable at major retail at this point, no matter who is in them. $50 and up is too expensive for an impulse buy, even from casual collectors, and the hardcore collectors will jump on it as soon as they find it (if it wasn't available for preorder beforehand) so second, third, fourth shipments are going to sit. Though I will say, Festival of Friendship seemed to be way more in-demand and harder to find than Milk 'O Mania.
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Post by Crossfit Jesus on Jul 25, 2022 17:12:33 GMT -5
Not really. All sets seem to do bad at retail. Even the Undertaker 5 pack figure set sat at ToysRus's and got discounted. Having big names doesn't always equal big sales. Dude that Undertaker set was a five pack of basic repaints. Not at all the same thing. What if one of the first four packs was one of the following… 1) Elite 98 Taker 2) Debut Kane rerelease 3) Paul Bearer 4) Mankind (Cell match attire) or 1) Shawn Michaels Royal Rumble 98 (just repaint E19) 2) WMX Razor (again repaint) 3) Bret (just do any 96-97 attire) 4) Diesel (repaint) Those two would have sold exponentially more and the line would have survived longer at the very least. With the new risky line you have to go for a knockout punch. Work the dead weight like the Horsemen and wild Samoans later on down the road when you have other knockouts to cushion around it. nothing but facts here |
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Post by Crossfit Jesus on Jul 25, 2022 17:19:42 GMT -5
The elite 2 packs had so much potential.
Festival of friendship DUD
Hardy’s Home run
Rey/Joe DUD we already had been flooded with joes and no one is gonna spend 40 for single Rey plus a paperweight
AJ/Balor Aj had already been flooding shelves with that top picks(mania34), elite 66 plus we already had gotten a blue aj balor was just a repaint of that entrance great which also was clearanced if I remember correctly
Chyna/ Hhh pretty solid tbh and I remember it was sought after for a while before it got restocked
Rock/ mankind amazing and we can see that it sold pretty well as it’s been out of stock
Goldberg/Bret Brets singlet was terrible as far as color, Goldberg had already been clearanced in that entrance greats and there was no reason to get this pack except for that WCW Bret but they messed up the pink so bad
Hhh/hardy they had just released the ultimate so it was weird to make an elite so soon. I only bought this for hardy but that was once it had been reduced in price
Imagine if we had mega powers, dudleys, edge and Christian
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moxicityrko33
Mid-Carder
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Post by moxicityrko33 on Jul 25, 2022 17:20:17 GMT -5
On the topic of 4 packs, I’d sell my left nut for an Evolution Armageddon 2003 4 pack with nice Elite collector packaging.
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Post by Crossfit Jesus on Jul 25, 2022 17:37:32 GMT -5
On the topic of 4 packs, I’d sell my left nut for an Evolution Armageddon 2003 4 pack with nice Elite collector packaging. me too |
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burtgummer
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Post by burtgummer on Jul 25, 2022 18:00:04 GMT -5
True. Another company usually sells the BAF separate so you don’t have to buy the whole set( so that’s probably what I’ll buy. Just depends on the price, if not I’ll do like you said I know which place you're talking about and have been curious to buy them, but are they Jakks scale or Mattel? A lot of the accessories I've bought there were Jakks scale. We must be talking about 2 different places. This place sells the BAF parts together just out of packaging , so it’s mattel. |
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MWFD
Main Eventer
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Post by MWFD on Jul 25, 2022 18:16:36 GMT -5
Do we have a picture of this RAW set MOC? Also, I did not know Undertaker is coming with soft goods jacket. Was that confirmed?  Oh excellent, thank you sir! This does look great MOC. |
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Post by casanova on Jul 26, 2022 8:51:09 GMT -5
Guys! Anybody willing to help out a fellow international collector and order one of these sets for and ship it over to me? Of course I‘d cover all costs and compensate you for your time. Just don’t want to miss out on this lovely set. Any help would be highly appreciated!
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Jul 26, 2022 9:33:40 GMT -5
Dan and Bill start discussing this set right around the 6:00 mark.
Towards the end, Bill mentions "everything you see here is included." Do you think the packaging doubles as that Manhattan Center diorama? Sounds too good to be true, but that looks so incredible.
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ℍ𝕒𝕣𝕕 𝕋𝕠 𝕂𝕚𝕝𝕝
Main Eventer
ask me about how Verizon owes me over $4,000
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Post by ℍ𝕒𝕣𝕕 𝕋𝕠 𝕂𝕚𝕝𝕝 on Jul 26, 2022 9:39:51 GMT -5
Dan and Bill start discussing this set right around the 6:00 mark. Towards the end, Bill mentions "everything you see here is included." Do you think the packaging doubles as that Manhattan Center diorama? Sounds too good to be true, but that looks so incredible. No, that diorama is way too big and detailed to be included in the $65 set that already includes 3 elites and the letters. And there's nothing on the packaging that says "Included Diorama!" or anything. It would be weird to include something that nice and not show off that its included. |
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Jul 26, 2022 11:01:03 GMT -5
Dan and Bill start discussing this set right around the 6:00 mark. Towards the end, Bill mentions "everything you see here is included." Do you think the packaging doubles as that Manhattan Center diorama? Sounds too good to be true, but that looks so incredible. No, that diorama is way too big and detailed to be included in the $65 set that already includes 3 elites and the letters. And there's nothing on the packaging that says "Included Diorama!" or anything. It would be weird to include something that nice and not show off that its included. Yeah, figured as much, but man does that look great. The perfect backdrop for those Raw letters or even the neon entryway. |
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ℍ𝕒𝕣𝕕 𝕋𝕠 𝕂𝕚𝕝𝕝
Main Eventer
ask me about how Verizon owes me over $4,000
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Post by ℍ𝕒𝕣𝕕 𝕋𝕠 𝕂𝕚𝕝𝕝 on Jul 26, 2022 11:02:42 GMT -5
No, that diorama is way too big and detailed to be included in the $65 set that already includes 3 elites and the letters. And there's nothing on the packaging that says "Included Diorama!" or anything. It would be weird to include something that nice and not show off that its included. Yeah, figured as much, but man does that look great. The perfect backdrop for those Raw letters or even the neon entryway. Extreme Sets is dropping a ballroom type backdrop soon with a balcony. It looks perfect for this set and the New Gen set. |
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Old Zeke
Main Eventer
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Post by Old Zeke on Jul 26, 2022 13:20:06 GMT -5
Yeah, figured as much, but man does that look great. The perfect backdrop for those Raw letters or even the neon entryway. Extreme Sets is dropping a ballroom type backdrop soon with a balcony. It looks perfect for this set and the New Gen set. I haven't bought anything from them since the OG Arena pop-up way back in 2015, but I'm 100% picking up the ballroom to go with the New Gen Arena. |
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frightberry
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Post by frightberry on Jul 26, 2022 13:53:36 GMT -5
Forgive my ignorance here, is there a HHH basic or elite that would fit well with this era for display?
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skogen
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Post by skogen on Jul 26, 2022 14:03:43 GMT -5
Forgive my ignorance here, is there a HHH basic or elite that would fit well with this era for display? Probably the WWE Network Spotlight elite  |
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