Zincdust
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WF 20+ Year Member WF Day 1 Member
Redefining "Old Toy Weirdo"
Joined on: Dec 18, 2001 15:13:21 GMT -5
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Post by Zincdust on Nov 23, 2022 15:43:50 GMT -5
This was brought up in a discussion via a FB group that I'm in.
Most wrestlers have been both a good guy and a bad guy during their career. What's an example of someone who was MUCH better at being one or the other?
One I can think of is Rick Martel. He was super bland and boring as a good guy, but man, he made you whole-heartedly believe his character as The Model!
What are some of your examples?
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Post by tmnt316 on Nov 23, 2022 15:53:22 GMT -5
Sting was much better as a babyface vs The short lived heel turn in late 99.
Bayley is a better heel imo that's what finally made me a fan.
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Post by Evil Abed on Nov 23, 2022 15:58:49 GMT -5
I never thought Raven worked as a face, his character was meant to be heel. I can only recall a couple of times he was face but almost immediately turned back.
ECW Late 1999 - tagging with Tommy Dreamer before leaving for WWF WCW Early 1999 - tagging with Saturn before leaving WCW WWF Mid 2001 - Shortlived before Invasion Angle
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Teddy Bearburg
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Post by Teddy Bearburg on Nov 23, 2022 16:03:08 GMT -5
Off the top of my head, I think Alexa Bliss is MUCH better as a heel. She has such a character and personality and every time she is face I feel like she loses her personality entirely. Not really a knock on her, but the writing for her.
Charlotte Flair only good as a heel in my opinion.
Dexter Lumis/Sam Shaw. The heel persona in Impact did wonders for the character but the WWE babyface run has been nothing but cringe. Again, mainly on the writing though and not him.
This might be controversial but Triple H. I think he is only good as a heel and I think he is a pretty bad/not believable babyface.
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Teddy Bearburg
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Post by Teddy Bearburg on Nov 23, 2022 16:03:52 GMT -5
I never thought Raven worked as a face, his character was meant to be heel. I can only recall a couple of times he was face but almost immediately turned back. ECW Late 1999 - tagging with Tommy Dreamer before leaving for WWF WCW Early 1999 - tagging with Saturn before leaving WCW WWF Mid 2001 - Shortlived before Invasion Angle I agree for the most part, but I actually think he was a pretty good face in TNA.
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Nov 23, 2022 17:20:28 GMT -5
I’d go with Mr Perfect. Much better as a heel than a face. Whilst it wasn’t the worst, I was never fully invested in his late 92/93 face turn.
Nikolai Volkoff as well. I get the Cold War ended so the Soviet gimmick was redundant but his face run just didn’t fit him at all.
Powers of Pain much better as heels, same for the Nasty boys.
There’s probably loads of others but all I can think of off the top of my head
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Post by Evil Abed on Nov 23, 2022 17:26:12 GMT -5
I never thought Raven worked as a face, his character was meant to be heel. I can only recall a couple of times he was face but almost immediately turned back. ECW Late 1999 - tagging with Tommy Dreamer before leaving for WWF WCW Early 1999 - tagging with Saturn before leaving WCW WWF Mid 2001 - Shortlived before Invasion Angle I agree for the most part, but I actually think he was a pretty good face in TNA. Lol I don't know why, but I completely forgot about his TNA run.
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Post by The Brain on Nov 23, 2022 20:04:36 GMT -5
Perfect-Way more natural as a heel
Piper-Entertaining as a babyface no doubt but man nothing tops him as a heel in the 80s
Sid/Vader-Both better in the monster heel role
Ricky Morton-What were they thinking turning em heel in 91?
Just off the top of my head here. I'll also say that I'm more partial to the heels.Big reason why I got into wrestling all those years ago. Always rooted for em over the faces
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 30, 2024 4:53:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2022 21:21:16 GMT -5
luger - better heel
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Post by MKSavage on Nov 24, 2022 1:17:39 GMT -5
Honky Tonk Man - way better as a heel, how Vince ever thought that Honky could be a fan favorite is beyond me Ken Patera - much better as a heel Paul Orndorff - good as a babyface, but much better as a heel Natural Disasters - better monster heels
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Post by The Brain on Nov 24, 2022 1:24:23 GMT -5
Honky Tonk Man - way better as a heel, how Vince ever thought that Honky could be a fan favorite is beyond me Ken Patera - much better as a heel Paul Orndorff - good as a babyface, but much better as a heel Natural Disasters - better monster heels Honky as a face...man what a flop. Luckily it didnt last long I do wish ND had a longer run as heels
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Post by GreyHaze:Big Bad Booty Daddy on Nov 24, 2022 1:42:55 GMT -5
Seth Rollies baby. For whatever reason besides him being in The Shield he never came across as a good face. He's just not believable especially on the mic. Seth is just a natural heel imo and he plays that role perfectly. Every heel version of Seth was great imo, the chicken crap heel, The Messiah, The Visionary... Roman as well, the John Cena gimmick that Vince was forcing him to do didn't work. As a face, Roman needed to be one of those silent killers that only spoke when needed. I believe when he does turn face again, he should be more of an antihero.
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Post by hbkjason on Nov 24, 2022 4:24:25 GMT -5
While it was awesome when Mr. Perfect came back in 1992 to wrestle, I just could not buy him as a face at all. Natural Disasters trying to be faces was terrible as were The Nasty Boys, but I thought they were great heel tag teams. I always prefered Triple H as a heel as well, I felt that he could pull off being a face very well, especially when he was leading DX and even some of his solo stuff as well actually, but I much prefered him as the sadistic heel going up against the likes of The Rock, Steve Austin and then Shawn Michaels..
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Post by tmnt316 on Nov 24, 2022 8:46:42 GMT -5
I'll add Christian to the better as heel category but he wasn't a terrible face.
Sasha definitely better as heel.
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Post by PJ on Nov 24, 2022 23:08:47 GMT -5
Muraco was a much better heel than face. While Triple H was entertaining as a face he’s great as a heel. HBK was a better heel to me as well. Jericho was a really good face, but great heel.
As were these others that were already mentioned… Piper Orndorff Hennig
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saintegenevieve
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Post by saintegenevieve on Nov 25, 2022 2:32:27 GMT -5
The best face character has fire. A great face worker conveys vulnerability. Heel characters are dastardly. Great heel workers are menacing. Both can get away with a lot if they're likable
Flair was a much better face. I thought he was an above average heel on his very best day. He's dastardly but only insofar as he's amusing to watch. I never took him as dangerous. A lot of casuals think the same way
Bret Hart was a way better heel than face. As a face, he lacked a lot of fire.
Hulk Hogan balanced the two face aspects probably better than anyone I've ever seen. He could send people home happy going against someone like Honky Tonk Man and still sell that he was vulnerable. He could have done both as a heel. I think his age in WCW, being an old guy well past his prime, has his heel work below his face work. In his prime, Hogan would have been an awesome heel
Mr. Perfect was overrated in all departments. I think why people push him hard is that he was likable. He was probably a better face than heel in theory, since his face work happened when he was past his prime (drugs mainly). As a heel, his offense was weak and his finisher stupid for what the audience expected. Though he was dastardly at points, I never thought his stuff was over the top enough to be enraging. Probably the most overrated worker of the last 40 years
Savage was a better face. Because of Savage's size, I think he looked less dangerous than he should have since he'd bump a lot. I think his style was never unhinged enough for what he was doing as a character. His face work conveyed a lot of vulnerability. Without Elizabeth from 1985-1992, he would have struggled to be a star. Elizabeth was a great foil to draw out his inner psychopath up until 1987. He couldn't really do the same with a harlot character like Queen Sherri.
Demolition was a much better face team.
Undertaker had a lot of fire as a face and had great timing when doing it
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saintegenevieve
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Post by saintegenevieve on Nov 25, 2022 2:33:49 GMT -5
HHH was also a great heel. One of the better workers of the last 40 years. I don't think he was even m ever likable enough except in the rare underdog story to be a better face than heel
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Nov 27, 2022 17:27:10 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels. Seriously the whole HBK persona screams heel and he was so damn good at playing the role. He always felt out of place as a face.
Ric Flair. I have never found him to be likable, so he fits the heel category.
The Dudley Boyz. While they were good heels, they were just more successful as faces. Their 2015 return was ruined by their heel turn.
Seth Rollins. As a face he's as generic as they get but awesome as a heel.
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Post by MKSavage on Nov 27, 2022 19:15:30 GMT -5
The best face character has fire. A great face worker conveys vulnerability. Heel characters are dastardly. Great heel workers are menacing. Both can get away with a lot if they're likable Flair was a much better face. I thought he was an above average heel on his very best day. He's dastardly but only insofar as he's amusing to watch. I never took him as dangerous. A lot of casuals think the same way Bret Hart was a way better heel than face. As a face, he lacked a lot of fire. Hulk Hogan balanced the two face aspects probably better than anyone I've ever seen. He could send people home happy going against someone like Honky Tonk Man and still sell that he was vulnerable. He could have done both as a heel. I think his age in WCW, being an old guy well past his prime, has his heel work below his face work. In his prime, Hogan would have been an awesome heel Mr. Perfect was overrated in all departments. I think why people push him hard is that he was likable. He was probably a better face than heel in theory, since his face work happened when he was past his prime (drugs mainly). As a heel, his offense was weak and his finisher stupid for what the audience expected. Though he was dastardly at points, I never thought his stuff was over the top enough to be enraging. Probably the most overrated worker of the last 40 yearsSavage was a better face. Because of Savage's size, I think he looked less dangerous than he should have since he'd bump a lot. I think his style was never unhinged enough for what he was doing as a character. His face work conveyed a lot of vulnerability. Without Elizabeth from 1985-1992, he would have struggled to be a star. Elizabeth was a great foil to draw out his inner psychopath up until 1987. He couldn't really do the same with a harlot character like Queen Sherri. Demolition was a much better face team. Undertaker had a lot of fire as a face and had great timing when doing it You're probably not going to get a lot of people to agree with you on this, Perfect was a great wrestler - IMO, and he was one of the better IC champions - his run in 1990/91 was tremendous. Add to it, the pairing of him with the Brain, and it was one of the best. I do agree with you that Hogan seemed to do both heel and face the best. When he was the immortal Hulk Hogan, he was the most over guy in the business, and when he was Hollywood Hogan, he was the most despised guy in the business. I would also say that Savage did a great job as both a heel and a face.
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Post by PJ on Nov 28, 2022 8:40:04 GMT -5
The best face character has fire. A great face worker conveys vulnerability. Heel characters are dastardly. Great heel workers are menacing. Both can get away with a lot if they're likable Flair was a much better face. I thought he was an above average heel on his very best day. He's dastardly but only insofar as he's amusing to watch. I never took him as dangerous. A lot of casuals think the same way Bret Hart was a way better heel than face. As a face, he lacked a lot of fire. Hulk Hogan balanced the two face aspects probably better than anyone I've ever seen. He could send people home happy going against someone like Honky Tonk Man and still sell that he was vulnerable. He could have done both as a heel. I think his age in WCW, being an old guy well past his prime, has his heel work below his face work. In his prime, Hogan would have been an awesome heel Mr. Perfect was overrated in all departments. I think why people push him hard is that he was likable. He was probably a better face than heel in theory, since his face work happened when he was past his prime (drugs mainly). As a heel, his offense was weak and his finisher stupid for what the audience expected. Though he was dastardly at points, I never thought his stuff was over the top enough to be enraging. Probably the most overrated worker of the last 40 yearsSavage was a better face. Because of Savage's size, I think he looked less dangerous than he should have since he'd bump a lot. I think his style was never unhinged enough for what he was doing as a character. His face work conveyed a lot of vulnerability. Without Elizabeth from 1985-1992, he would have struggled to be a star. Elizabeth was a great foil to draw out his inner psychopath up until 1987. He couldn't really do the same with a harlot character like Queen Sherri. Demolition was a much better face team. Undertaker had a lot of fire as a face and had great timing when doing it You're probably not going to get a lot of people to agree with you on this, Perfect was a great wrestler - IMO, and he was one of the better IC champions - his run in 1990/91 was tremendous. Add to it, the pairing of him with the Brain, and it was one of the best. I do agree with you that Hogan seemed to do both heel and face the best. When he was the immortal Hulk Hogan, he was the most over guy in the business, and when he was Hollywood Hogan, he was the most despised guy in the business. I would also say that Savage did a great job as both a heel and a face. Of course you would! Personally though I liked him better as a heel.
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