TWJT
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Post by TWJT on Mar 7, 2023 0:59:05 GMT -5
Obviously ECW was a strong, eight-year revolution that got so many guys exposure, and influenced WCW and the WWF. Heyman’s current run in the WWE, from his return in 2012 up until the present, has mainly been based around Lesnar, Punk, Reigns, Cesaro, Ryback, a few others, and the folks feuding with said clients. So though the circle of people being impacted by him is smaller, is it possible that his current WWE run (2012-2023, not getting into his earlier WWE stuff after ECW closed, like the Alliance, Lesnar’s first run, managing Show and Angle, the One Night Stands, etc.) has actually been bigger for him and the business than ECW itself? So many top guys have been impacted by what he’s done, and we’ve even seen the end of The Streak through this run. Roman’s current run on top has been untouchable. Would you say Heyman’s current run has become bigger than ECW?
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kinnikuman
Main Eventer
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Post by kinnikuman on Mar 7, 2023 6:54:02 GMT -5
No.
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Mar 7, 2023 7:40:53 GMT -5
No. ECW literally changed the game, and essentially everything you see in wrestling today was influence in one way or another by ECW.
From the edgy reality based storylines that lead to the attitude Era, the lucha libre style coming to America, "hardcore" style wrestling with blood and weapons.....
WWF/WWE and WCW were able to adapt, thrive, and evolve based on the talent and aspects of ECW that they stole and were able to showcase to their television audience.
If it wasn't for ECW.....WWF would have stayed where the wrestlers were cartoon characters and occupations, and WCW would have stayed with that Southern Wrasslin' style.....but the 90's were a different time, and ECW led the way and Paul saw the writing on the wall and he saw what was hot and trendy or what was soon to BECOME hot and trendy, and Paul sort of took those risks first, and then Vince and Eric swooped in and got all the glory.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Mar 7, 2023 14:08:27 GMT -5
No
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TWJT
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Post by TWJT on Mar 7, 2023 14:54:28 GMT -5
Fair points, but one could argue ECW derived from Mid-South Wrestling (the bloody, hardcore style actually started in the southern US, and Heyman discovered that as a tape-trader), FMW, and Joel Goodhart's Tri-State Wrestling Alliance. And the original owner of ECW wasn’t even Heyman. So one could argue an equivalent to ECW still finds a different way to exist without Heyman, because the roots already existed without him. But I don’t think his current 2012-2023 run has any way to exist without him. And one could argue that if you’re comparing accomplishments within someone’s career, the part that couldn’t exist without said person has to be considered bigger than the part that might have still existed without them. Just throwing out theories. I love ECW too, and maybe no equivalent could have existed without him. But it’s possible.
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kinnikuman
Main Eventer
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Post by kinnikuman on Mar 7, 2023 18:05:13 GMT -5
I mean, he ran an entire revolutionary promotion versus playing manager on TV. It's no contest.
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Papi Joker
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INTERNATIONAL COLLECTORS LIVES MATTER
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Post by Papi Joker on Mar 7, 2023 18:12:26 GMT -5
Not really he is basically a background character not a main character (or booker/promoter/etc)
Never understood how someone with so much wealth and connections could look like a regular cars salesman though
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TWJT
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Post by TWJT on Mar 7, 2023 18:55:05 GMT -5
His promos are pretty powerful though, and right in the center of things. I don’t really see him as just a background character, if I’m being honest.
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Post by Back to the Codyverse on Mar 7, 2023 20:24:11 GMT -5
Overall, no.
Is current his best on screen work? Absolutely
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Post by TheSystem 1.5 on Mar 7, 2023 22:26:26 GMT -5
Does Taz succeed without Heymans vision? Does RVD succeed if Heyman doesn’t give him a chance? Sabus career stateside? Shane Douglas not just being that Dean Douglas jabroni? Raven? Dreamer? Dudley’s? Public Enemy?
All Heymans vision.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Mar 7, 2023 22:28:32 GMT -5
Well, yes. He’s in the very top tier in wrestling. ECW was a glorified developmental league. Much like Elimination Chamber being bigger than all of Sami Zayn’s bingo hall matches combined, the bloodline storyline and Brock Lesnar ending Undertaker’s streak are bigger than all of Heyman’s bingo hall shows combined.
That said, he has also managed scrubs like Curtis Axel, Ryback and Cessro in this run.
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TWJT
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Post by TWJT on Mar 7, 2023 22:58:15 GMT -5
Well, yes. He’s in the very top tier in wrestling. ECW was a glorified developmental league. Much like Elimination Chamber being bigger than all of Sami Zayn’s bingo hall matches combined, the bloodline storyline and Brock Lesnar ending Undertaker’s streak are bigger than all of Heyman’s bingo hall shows combined. That said, he has also managed scrubs like Curtis Axel, Ryback and Cessro in this run. Hard to disagree. I'm a huge ECW fan, and I very much embrace the video library, books, memories, etc., but it's hard to top what Paul has been doing the last 11 years. He's literally at the tippity top of the business.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Mar 8, 2023 3:35:08 GMT -5
Well, yes. He’s in the very top tier in wrestling. ECW was a glorified developmental league. Much like Elimination Chamber being bigger than all of Sami Zayn’s bingo hall matches combined, the bloodline storyline and Brock Lesnar ending Undertaker’s streak are bigger than all of Heyman’s bingo hall shows combined. That said, he has also managed scrubs like Curtis Axel, Ryback and Cessro in this run. Hard to disagree. I'm a huge ECW fan, and I very much embrace the video library, books, memories, etc., but it's hard to top what Paul has been doing the last 11 years. He's literally at the tippity top of the business. Yeah. Running an influential developmental league or indie show is cool and all, but it’s just not on the same level as Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar. Triple H signing Johnny Gargano and making him NXT champion is a thing that happened, but it’s not as big a deal as Triple H’s feud with Daniel Bryan, let alone Triple H’s feud with The Rock.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2023 9:59:39 GMT -5
Paul Heyman ran a niche business, in a niche market, in front of niche fans, and he ran it into the ground. At least with his WWE run he doesn't have to worry about talent not getting paid
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Post by K5 on Mar 8, 2023 10:59:15 GMT -5
I think time will tell. as it stands, ecw has had a bigger impact. but the Roman/Heyman story is arguably the biggest one of the generation for many wrestling fans, so who knows how big it’s influence in time will be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2023 17:43:01 GMT -5
Not at all
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Mar 12, 2023 8:27:28 GMT -5
Nah but both are still great
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