kojikanemoto
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 18, 2023 17:45:08 GMT -5
Posts: 364
|
Post by kojikanemoto on Oct 7, 2024 7:27:09 GMT -5
Since you’re familiar with the particular details of their contracts I guess you’re saying that Mattel has exclusive rights to produce “retro style/scale” figures of Tatanka. Was the asylum tatanka done illegally too? Mattel uses the same form factor. Or are you saying it’s the specific look/gear that’s in breach since it’s a wwe ip? In short, you can’t make a product of someone that has a legends contract. They signed their likeness and name to the wwe for X amount of time that includes a clause for toys. you definitely can’t use a name like Papa Shango in marketing since that was a wwe grown product. That’s like if someone made a figure of mickey mouse with out the disney rights. Asylum was done illegally as well. Not to be a jerk or start some ish, but your company has done similar with WWE owned IP, so why come into this thread and talk down on someone else’s good work? |
|
arthur214
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 10, 2019 18:54:58 GMT -5
Posts: 359
|
Post by arthur214 on Oct 7, 2024 8:16:14 GMT -5
Since you’re familiar with the particular details of their contracts I guess you’re saying that Mattel has exclusive rights to produce “retro style/scale” figures of Tatanka. Was the asylum tatanka done illegally too? Mattel uses the same form factor. Or are you saying it’s the specific look/gear that’s in breach since it’s a wwe ip? In short, you can’t make a product of someone that has a legends contract. They signed their likeness and name to the wwe for X amount of time that includes a clause for toys. you definitely can’t use a name like Papa Shango in marketing since that was a wwe grown product. That’s like if someone made a figure of mickey mouse with out the disney rights. Asylum was done illegally as well. Technically, Steamboat Willie is now in public domain so that distinct Mickey look can be made by anyone. In fact, there is already a (terrible looking) Mickey Mouse horror movie being released called The Mousetrap.  |
|
walter7paisley
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 9, 2022 17:57:13 GMT -5
Posts: 1,713
|
Post by walter7paisley on Oct 7, 2024 13:59:05 GMT -5
Cheers, Chairshot and Taserface, I dunno how to multi-quote you both. I'm getting the Bulldog 95 and 96 figures, really looking forward to getting them. Not sure if I'll keep them mint or not, but if I open them they're definitely gonna get some work, so I hope they hold up, lol.
|
|
kanik89
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Oct 9, 2023 17:34:31 GMT -5
Posts: 56
|
Post by kanik89 on Oct 7, 2024 21:13:28 GMT -5
In short, you can’t make a product of someone that has a legends contract. They signed their likeness and name to the wwe for X amount of time that includes a clause for toys. you definitely can’t use a name like Papa Shango in marketing since that was a wwe grown product. That’s like if someone made a figure of mickey mouse with out the disney rights. Asylum was done illegally as well. Not to be a jerk or start some ish, but your company has done similar with WWE owned IP, so why come into this thread and talk down on someone else’s good work? we have never signed people that had a legends contract and used their names. i’m not starting shit. I was replying to a comment that was not properly informed. |
|
kanik89
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Oct 9, 2023 17:34:31 GMT -5
Posts: 56
|
Post by kanik89 on Oct 7, 2024 21:14:30 GMT -5
In short, you can’t make a product of someone that has a legends contract. They signed their likeness and name to the wwe for X amount of time that includes a clause for toys. you definitely can’t use a name like Papa Shango in marketing since that was a wwe grown product. That’s like if someone made a figure of mickey mouse with out the disney rights. Asylum was done illegally as well. Technically, Steamboat Willie is now in public domain so that distinct Mickey look can be made by anyone. In fact, there is already a (terrible looking) Mickey Mouse horror movie being released called The Mousetrap. that’s not how public domains actually work and i would rather not piss off the mouse and would rather work with the mouse. |
|
@Chair.Shot
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Jan 31, 2012 4:38:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,870
|
Post by @Chair.Shot on Oct 7, 2024 21:26:03 GMT -5
Not to be a jerk or start some ish, but your company has done similar with WWE owned IP, so why come into this thread and talk down on someone else’s good work? we have never signed people that had a legends contract and used their names. i’m not starting shit. I was replying to a comment that was not properly informed. How does Macho King work? Did you guys have to get special permission from WWE/pay them or does his estate own that? |
|
kanik89
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Oct 9, 2023 17:34:31 GMT -5
Posts: 56
|
Post by kanik89 on Oct 7, 2024 21:32:34 GMT -5
we have never signed people that had a legends contract and used their names. i’m not starting shit. I was replying to a comment that was not properly informed. How does Macho King work? Did you guys have to get special permission from WWE/pay them or does his estate own that? estate. now if we did macho with black and white had it with an nwo logo that’s a no no |
|
kojikanemoto
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 18, 2023 17:45:08 GMT -5
Posts: 364
|
Post by kojikanemoto on Oct 8, 2024 6:32:58 GMT -5
How does Macho King work? Did you guys have to get special permission from WWE/pay them or does his estate own that? estate. now if we did macho with black and white had it with an nwo logo that’s a no no He never worked as Macho King outside of the WWF. Don’t they own the rights to the likeness? |
|
kanik89
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Oct 9, 2023 17:34:31 GMT -5
Posts: 56
|
Post by kanik89 on Oct 8, 2024 9:08:16 GMT -5
estate. now if we did macho with black and white had it with an nwo logo that’s a no no He never worked as Macho King outside of the WWF. Don’t they own the rights to the likeness? No, if they did they would be making the merch and selling the figures. Thats what a legends deal is for. |
|
@Chair.Shot
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Jan 31, 2012 4:38:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,870
|
Post by @Chair.Shot on Oct 8, 2024 10:08:11 GMT -5
This is where things are getting a little murky to me and I’m not trying to make it sound confrontational or passive aggressive. So please, read it with that tone. IP seems tricky and my only intention is to better understand it.
If a wrestler plays a character within a company and that character was only used by that company, it would make sense that the company has a claim to that character. I know that wasn’t always the case but we have seen things play out like the fake Razor and Diesel where such things were tested legally. Doink is also an interesting and complicated one.
So if the character was created within the confines of that company but the company lets the TM expire…it is just smooth sailing for anyone to pick up that TM and use it?
I don’t want to pick on Macho King so let’s use Charles Wright as an example: For a moment let’s pretend he never had a legends deal. For the sake of the argument we can just pretend WWE has no interest in using him again. If Charles acquired that trademark once it was available, would he be free to start using the exact name and look(s) that he used in the WWF?
With Randy I can imagine things might be different. He had such a different relationship with the company during and after his time there. He paid for all of those amazing outfits and, to the best of my knowledge, WWF provided very little (not sure about his amazing robes). I’m fairly certain they did create the Macho King crown and scepter…but I have no clue if WWE would try to step in and stop the estate from using those. There are so many moving pieces to this unique situation which is why I find it so fascinating. I kind of want to reach out to Bulletproof Studio to see what their experience was like with getting the crown licensed but I wanted to wait until they are under less stress given their nonstop production schedule as of late.
|
|
kojikanemoto
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 18, 2023 17:45:08 GMT -5
Posts: 364
|
Post by kojikanemoto on Oct 8, 2024 10:57:44 GMT -5
He never worked as Macho King outside of the WWF. Don’t they own the rights to the likeness? No, if they did they would be making the merch and selling the figures. Thats what a legends deal is for. I don’t believe that’s correct. Also, whatever. |
|
kojikanemoto
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 18, 2023 17:45:08 GMT -5
Posts: 364
|
Post by kojikanemoto on Oct 8, 2024 10:59:49 GMT -5
Anyway, I really hope he has his current, good 3D sculptors work on Arn and Tully
|
|
hh2trotts
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jun 10, 2011 22:09:42 GMT -5
Posts: 167
|
Post by hh2trotts on Oct 8, 2024 13:32:53 GMT -5
No, if they did they would be making the merch and selling the figures. Thats what a legends deal is for. I don’t believe that’s correct. Also, whatever. You asked a question, he gave an answer to the best of his knowledge. Also, I could be wrong but isn’t he an attorney presently dealing in this exact area of law? You’ll be the same guy getting pissy when these retro companies will only answer questions on some 3 hour podcast. |
|
kojikanemoto
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 18, 2023 17:45:08 GMT -5
Posts: 364
|
Post by kojikanemoto on Oct 8, 2024 13:53:18 GMT -5
I don’t believe that’s correct. Also, whatever. You asked a question, he gave an answer to the best of his knowledge. Also, I could be wrong but isn’t he an attorney presently dealing in this exact area of law? You’ll be the same guy getting pissy when these retro companies will only answer questions on some 3 hour podcast. and I didn’t think his answer was correct, that’s ok. the “whatever” was to get the thread back on the topic of G&G rather then clog it up other topics. |
|
walter7paisley
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 9, 2022 17:57:13 GMT -5
Posts: 1,713
|
Post by walter7paisley on Oct 8, 2024 17:22:54 GMT -5
Anyone here from the UK ordered either of the two new Bulldogs? If so, have they arrived? I'm just wondering what the wait time is on these, whether they're in stock, etc?
|
|
@Chair.Shot
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Jan 31, 2012 4:38:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,870
|
Post by @Chair.Shot on Oct 8, 2024 20:23:56 GMT -5
Anyone here from the UK ordered either of the two new Bulldogs? If so, have they arrived? I'm just wondering what the wait time is on these, whether they're in stock, etc? Bulldog 95, 96, and 97 show they are available from R&R. So far I have only seen one person with 95 and 97; 96 might be too recent. Haven’t seen anything on the 2 pack. |
|
|
|
Post by micco on Oct 9, 2024 5:39:02 GMT -5
It would seem incumbent on the wrestler to not sign contracts with other licensors when they already have a deal with the wwe. How is Mitch supposed to know who does and doesn’t have a current legends deal? If the wwe had an issue, and Mitch can show a signed contract, the wwe’s first course of legal action would be to sue the person with whom they have an agreement. If they pursued litigation against Mitch, then he’d simply just have to sue the wrestler for whatever damages he incurred. Also, wouldn’t one have to know exactly when these guys signed with Mitch? If it predates their legends deal then if any contract is void, it would be the wwe one. Kinda similar to how the wwe was hesitant to sign Kevin Steen because they knew he already had a FTC deal and thus they wouldn’t have exclusive rights (if any at all) to produce figures of him.
|
|
britishbrickfan
Superstar
Joined on: Aug 19, 2019 7:02:28 GMT -5
Posts: 980
|
Post by britishbrickfan on Oct 9, 2024 9:28:51 GMT -5
It would seem incumbent on the wrestler to not sign contracts with other licensors when they already have a deal with the wwe. How is Mitch supposed to know who does and doesn’t have a current legends deal? If the wwe had an issue, and Mitch can show a signed contract, the wwe’s first course of legal action would be to sue the person with whom they have an agreement. If they pursued litigation against Mitch, then he’d simply just have to sue the wrestler for whatever damages he incurred. Also, wouldn’t one have to know exactly when these guys signed with Mitch? If it predates their legends deal then if any contract is void, it would be the wwe one. Kinda similar to how the wwe was hesitant to sign Kevin Steen because they knew he already had a FTC deal and thus they wouldn’t have exclusive rights (if any at all) to produce figures of him. their Legends contract would only be "void" if their prior contract with another manufacturer is an exclusive deal, and I suspect the WWE's legal dept is far more aware of what their contracts entail, and the damages it could cause to the talent's other WWE-derived income
for example - would any wrestler sign a licencing deal with another company, if it meant their ENTIRE Legends contract became void? which could mean no royalty payments from t-shirts/game characters/figures/TV appearances or even their royalties for previous work via Network/Netflix content
who would sign with a small company offering a handful of dollars for a figure, when their annual income from a Legends deal would dwarf the total sales revenue from their indy figure?
yes, Mitch may have a prior contract, but the talent would be losing out on much more if they believed their whole Legends deal was at risk. if it's just limited to figures, they may be ok with not getting a Mattel figure, even though those would likely sell in larger volume than a small company could offer
|
|
@Chair.Shot
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Jan 31, 2012 4:38:24 GMT -5
Posts: 4,870
|
Post by @Chair.Shot on Oct 9, 2024 9:32:42 GMT -5
All good points micco and questions I’m sure many have been wondering. If feathers get ruffled too much, it could be bad for the independent wrestling figure business which seems to be one of the messages Kanik was broadcasting. I’m not sure if any single independent toy company hasn’t done at least one thing that could earn them a cease and desist if WWE wanted to be unjustifiably aggressive. Even if a small company could win in court, it doesn’t mean they have the means to fight it nor would it be worth the time and stress. If WWE legal starts to take notice, we could very well see a “show of force” that would have these smaller toy companies pulling the plug on various projects to avoid the bigger fight. Legally, I’m not sure if one company would be responsible for not doing their due diligence to investigate any existing deals/contracts. I think there is probably wording in the Legends deals that would state the person signing has no other deals in place and such conflict could lead to voiding the contract/terminating the deal. But maybe not? Also, I’m not even sure how it works with a company sending someone a contract in a different state. Are the laws or penalties that would occur going to be originated from the state in which the contract is filed or are there complications with going after a party who signed it/lives in a state with different laws? Not that it is likely to ever go that far, I just wonder how it would be treated if it were to go all the way through the process. |
|
walter7paisley
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 9, 2022 17:57:13 GMT -5
Posts: 1,713
|
Post by walter7paisley on Oct 9, 2024 9:43:01 GMT -5
Anyone here from the UK ordered either of the two new Bulldogs? If so, have they arrived? I'm just wondering what the wait time is on these, whether they're in stock, etc? Bulldog 95, 96, and 97 show they are available from R&R. So far I have only seen one person with 95 and 97; 96 might be too recent. Haven’t seen anything on the 2 pack. I don't mind waiting, tbf, but I just wondered if these were ready to go. Can't wait to have these in hand! |
|
