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Post by CBT on Oct 17, 2007 12:14:46 GMT -5
This is just great. Where the  am I supposed to see my favorite Indy wrestlers like JC Bailey, Chuck Taylor, and CJ Otis?  I live in Illinois, I dont feel like traveling to Phili for a Chikara show. This sucks honestly, I loved IWA-MS to the death. I could say something about where you could see JC Bailey being booked, but I'll leave it to your imagination. It's alot better for my health that way. |
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Oct 17, 2007 13:15:38 GMT -5
I still don't understand why everyone he making excuses for Ian. Some of you are really blind if you think that Ian is not at fault for this. Booking the TPI around TNA guys was a mistake. Running shows in front of 80 people outside is a mistake. Changing almost the entire Point Proven card only three days before the show was a mistake. These are all extremely valid points. Ian makes for a better match maker and booker than he does a businessman. Booking TNA guys right now is probably a mistake. Its too costly and indy shows dont draw enough to bring them in. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2007 13:43:51 GMT -5
I still don't understand why everyone he making excuses for Ian. Some of you are really blind if you think that Ian is not at fault for this. Booking the TPI around TNA guys was a mistake. Running shows in front of 80 people outside is a mistake. Changing almost the entire Point Proven card only three days before the show was a mistake. These are all extremely valid points. Ian makes for a better match maker and booker than he does a businessman. Booking TNA guys right now is probably a mistake. Its too costly and indy shows dont draw enough to bring them in. none of those points are very valid, they were already shot down. and if you knew anything iwa cant book tna guys |
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Post by the franchise on Oct 17, 2007 14:05:13 GMT -5
That can't book TNA guys because they owe TNA money.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2007 14:43:55 GMT -5
...no crapsherlock
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Post by thephenominalone on Oct 17, 2007 14:46:08 GMT -5
LOL stop trying to defend Ian Rotten... all the passion in the world for wrestling doesnt make up for the fact that he has no business sense whatsoever, and no matter what you choose to believe, in the end wrestling is a business.
He made poor financial decisions, was gullible, and had no idea how to market his brand outside of a VERY SMALL cult-like following.
Its sad to see it go because while i'm not a fan of deathmatch garbage at all, they did have some great talents and some great matches throughout their history.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Oct 17, 2007 15:00:37 GMT -5
These are all extremely valid points. Ian makes for a better match maker and booker than he does a businessman. Booking TNA guys right now is probably a mistake. Its too costly and indy shows dont draw enough to bring them in. none of those points are very valid, they were already shot down. and if you knew anything iwa cant book tna guys ALL of the points are extremely valid and have not been shot down. You have made no points, just silly excuses. Call a spade a spade. And this is coming from someone who loves IWA and doesnt want it to close down. Its my second favorite promotion, next to Chikara right now. I know that IWA cant book TNA guys b/c they owe TNA money right now. You make it sound like its some sort of inside knowledge, cept its been public record for quite awhile. The idea booking TNA guys in the first place was a bad idea. Point Proven was a shell of its actual announced card. I know. I was there. I almost didnt go b/c of how botched up the final card was. But the Ki/Cide vs. Necro/Toby saved it for me. That was a phenomenal contest. No one denies his ability to make talent, passion for the business, etc. But his business sense is poor at best. This is indy wrestling. You draw maybe 200 people to a show. At $15 a pop.....you arent really making much. The bulk of your money is coming from vendors who rent out space, merchandise that is sold, dvds, etc. If IWA is going to be saved, someone other than Ian, needs to handle the money end of it. Spend less money on big name talent like Samoa Joe, Black Machismo, etc. and more on the guys that make IWA. I bet booking Low Ki is a hell of a lot cheaper than Joe and you are going to get a better match out of him. Stick with guys like Quack, Taylor, Cannon, Hero, etc. Those guys are TRUE indy talents right now and put on 5 star matches. If you want to bring a big name like Joe or whatever, bring them in for autographs and charge $20 an autograph. So now you got the fan spending $15 for his ticket and $20 for his autograph and its cheaper to book Joe for an autograph session for an hour than it is to book Joe to wrestle. And the best part is you will make twice as much. |
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Post by Ultimate Figure Collector on Oct 17, 2007 15:50:56 GMT -5
I refuse to support Ian for being a terrible business man. I for one am sick of hearing Ian cry over his financial problems that he got HIMSELF into.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2007 16:27:54 GMT -5
i'd like to see you guys say these things to Ian's face.
thing is he had to know something about buisiness to be running 11+ years. you don't see feds last that long now a days, hell you don't see any buisiness lasting that long. you know there's plenty of shops around that open and close months after.
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Post by thephenominalone on Oct 17, 2007 17:58:41 GMT -5
I'm a business major going onto an MBA.. i'll gladly say it to his face - hell he might have saved the company if he would have just gone to seek the advice of even a financial consultant. He just had this rosey vision that hey i'll spend money on flying in these expensive talents, booking venues, and getting more equipment and hopefully without any money put into promotion, more people will just start randomly showing up. Thats the problem with Word of Mouth marketing... it doesnt work, especially when the product is so geographically segregated - most of us (including myself) could only catch IWA-MS via DVD and torrents and what not. i'd like to see you guys say these things to Ian's face. thing is he had to know something about buisiness to be running 11+ years. you don't see feds last that long now a days, hell you don't see any buisiness lasting that long. you know there's plenty of shops around that open and close months after. |
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Oct 17, 2007 18:15:29 GMT -5
i'd like to see you guys say these things to Ian's face. thing is he had to know something about buisiness to be running 11+ years. you don't see feds last that long now a days, hell you don't see any buisiness lasting that long. you know there's plenty of shops around that open and close months after. Say it to Ian's face?! Who cares? Irrelevant. This isnt knocking Ian, to knock Ian.....its the truth. You make it sound like we're all glad IWA is going under and that we dont want it to succeed. And it couldnt be further from the truth. But facts are facts. Does Ian know how to make a quality show? Yes. Does he know how to draw good size indy crowds? Yes. Does he know how to make indy superstars? Yes. But these points arent being debated. Whats being debated is whether or not Ian makes sound financial decisions. And the answer is a $4000....NO! Flights, hotels, TNA talent and renting out venues to large for your small IWA crowd are all poor financial mistakes. These are FACTS! Its not a slight to make a slight. Its called calling a spade a spade. Its something I fear you are refusing to do due to your own personal bias for this company. |
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Post by youcantstopit on Oct 17, 2007 18:16:15 GMT -5
I'm a business major going onto an MBA.. i'll gladly say it to his face - hell he might have saved the company if he would have just gone to seek the advice of even a financial consultant. He just had this rosey vision that hey i'll spend money on flying in these expensive talents, booking venues, and getting more equipment and hopefully without any money put into promotion, more people will just start randomly showing up. Thats the problem with Word of Mouth marketing... it doesnt work, especially when the product is so geographically segregated - most of us (including myself) could only catch IWA-MS via DVD and torrents and what not. So you admit to being a thief then? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2007 20:16:05 GMT -5
i'd like to see you guys say these things to Ian's face. thing is he had to know something about buisiness to be running 11+ years. you don't see feds last that long now a days, hell you don't see any buisiness lasting that long. you know there's plenty of shops around that open and close months after. Say it to Ian's face?! Who cares? Irrelevant. This isnt knocking Ian, to knock Ian.....its the truth. You make it sound like we're all glad IWA is going under and that we dont want it to succeed. And it couldnt be further from the truth. But facts are facts. Does Ian know how to make a quality show? Yes. Does he know how to draw good size indy crowds? Yes. Does he know how to make indy superstars? Yes. But these points arent being debated. Whats being debated is whether or not Ian makes sound financial decisions. And the answer is a $4000....NO! Flights, hotels, TNA talent and renting out venues to large for your small IWA crowd are all poor financial mistakes. These are FACTS! Its not a slight to make a slight. Its called calling a spade a spade. Its something I fear you are refusing to do due to your own personal bias for this company. off already dude. get off my nuts and stop trying to debate every single thing i say. you contradict yourself in your previous post alone. are current times hard for iwa? yeah right now they are. truth of the matter is Ian had to know a thing or two about a thing or two to be in buisiness 11+ years. he had to have SOME basic understanding of how to handle his money. that can't be denied or twisted any way, that is the truth. |
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Oct 17, 2007 20:24:44 GMT -5
Say it to Ian's face?! Who cares? Irrelevant. This isnt knocking Ian, to knock Ian.....its the truth. You make it sound like we're all glad IWA is going under and that we dont want it to succeed. And it couldnt be further from the truth. But facts are facts. Does Ian know how to make a quality show? Yes. Does he know how to draw good size indy crowds? Yes. Does he know how to make indy superstars? Yes. But these points arent being debated. Whats being debated is whether or not Ian makes sound financial decisions. And the answer is a $4000....NO! Flights, hotels, TNA talent and renting out venues to large for your small IWA crowd are all poor financial mistakes. These are FACTS! Its not a slight to make a slight. Its called calling a spade a spade. Its something I fear you are refusing to do due to your own personal bias for this company. off already dude. get off my nuts and stop trying to debate every single thing i say. you contradict yourself in your previous post alone. are current times hard for iwa? yeah right now they are. truth of the matter is Ian had to know a thing or two about a thing or two to be in buisiness 11+ years. he had to have SOME basic understanding of how to handle his money. that can't be denied or twisted any way, that is the truth. You always know how to ruin a thread. Just like the last damn chat thread, you had to take a nice discussion and turn it into a insult fest. This was a good debate and you have to ruin it. What the hell are you talking about that I contradicted myself? I havent contradicted myself. And as far as Ian knowing how to run a business b/c he has been in business for over 11 years......well, that argument is completely flawed. Enron was in business for over 20 years and well, you know. Besides, this isnt the first time that Ian has pleaded with fans to buy dvds and merchandise. He has done it on 2 previous occasions of recent memory. One was for the issue with the damaged floor and two was a year ago when he was saying he was going under. |
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Post by head2 on Oct 17, 2007 20:30:35 GMT -5
If IWA-MS goes under, Im gonna kill myself. Quote me on that.
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Post by youcantstopit on Oct 17, 2007 20:55:53 GMT -5
And as far as Ian knowing how to run a business b/c he has been in business for over 11 years......well, that argument is completely flawed. Enron was in business for over 20 years and well, you know. Comparing IWA MS to Enron makes you look ridiculous. You can't compare a pro wrestling company that runs in small towns in Indiana to a major corporation with millions of stock holders that went under because of greed, and multiple people stealing from the company. As far as I know Ian isn't stealing from the company, nor is he answering to stock holders who make money from IWA MS. The issue here is this, Ian has tried to make IWA grow by bringing in names that cost money. It hasn't helped, but usually when you bring in names, you draw well. I can think of only one promotion where brining in names from TNA doesn't change the attendence. Unfortunatly the norm for pro wrestling didn't apply to Ian's company. Now he needs to shut down for a bit, retool, and then reopen anew with the idea of booking smaller names, no flights, and the ability to build stars, something he's proven to know how to do better then any other indy ever. |
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Post by jack on Oct 17, 2007 22:32:33 GMT -5
If IWA-MS goes under, Im gonna kill myself. Quote me on that. still taking offers lol |
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Oct 17, 2007 22:40:07 GMT -5
And as far as Ian knowing how to run a business b/c he has been in business for over 11 years......well, that argument is completely flawed. Enron was in business for over 20 years and well, you know. Comparing IWA MS to Enron makes you look ridiculous. You can't compare a pro wrestling company that runs in small towns in Indiana to a major corporation with millions of stock holders that went under because of greed, and multiple people stealing from the company. As far as I know Ian isn't stealing from the company, nor is he answering to stock holders who make money from IWA MS. The issue here is this, Ian has tried to make IWA grow by bringing in names that cost money. It hasn't helped, but usually when you bring in names, you draw well. I can think of only one promotion where brining in names from TNA doesn't change the attendence. Unfortunatly the norm for pro wrestling didn't apply to Ian's company. Now he needs to shut down for a bit, retool, and then reopen anew with the idea of booking smaller names, no flights, and the ability to build stars, something he's proven to know how to do better then any other indy ever. It doesnt make me look ridiculous. You missed the whole point of the statement. I am trying to disprove Melvin's thinking that b/c he has been around for 11 years doesnt mean he automatically knows what he is doing. Enron was a company that was extremely successful. And b/c of greed, the company fell. Its not to say that Ian is greedy and thats why his company is falling. I am only trying to point out that being open for years is irrelevant to the type of businessman you are. Lots of companies are owned by brilliant businessmen and sometimes the product just doest take off or whatever. Doesnt make that person a bad businessman. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2007 7:47:57 GMT -5
Actually my old friend dictionary would disagree with you, and again put you in your place ˈbusinessman noun — feminine ˈbusinesswoman a person who makes a living from some form of trade or commerce, not from one of the professions that disproves your genius with a product that doesn't take off theory. if it never takes off your have no buisiness, therefor you're not a buisiness man. i've seen this in thread after thread, learn to just back down already. stop thinking everything you say is the only right anwser, i've seen you debating slappy in the other thread just because your ass is to stubburn to just give up. not everyone's here to post long ass debates with you, this isn't a ing law trial. and yeah comparing a wrestling company with maybe a strong 5 figure assets to a billion dollar corporation is just like comparing oranges to apples, ING STUPID! |
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Oct 18, 2007 13:07:00 GMT -5
Actually my old friend dictionary would disagree with you, and again put you in your place ˈbusinessman noun — feminine ˈbusinesswoman a person who makes a living from some form of trade or commerce, not from one of the professions that disproves your genius with a product that doesn't take off theory. if it never takes off your have no buisiness, therefor you're not a buisiness man. i've seen this in thread after thread, learn to just back down already. stop thinking everything you say is the only right anwser, i've seen you debating slappy in the other thread just because your ass is to stubburn to just give up. not everyone's here to post long ass debates with you, this isn't a ing law trial. and yeah comparing a wrestling company with maybe a strong 5 figure assets to a billion dollar corporation is just like comparing oranges to apples, ING STUPID! I enjoy discussions. If you dont......why are you posting here on a message board?! You definition of a businessman/businesswoman is completely irrelevant. Try rereading what I posted and stop trying to act like you know everything and everyone else's opinion is worthless. You dont even read what people say and just like to jump down their throats for no reason. BTW....oranges and apples are both fruits. Now who's ing stupid?! ;D |
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