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Post by therealjswo on Dec 15, 2007 20:46:54 GMT -5
How does the Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli match make sense? Why would Claudio leave if he loses, when he's won like five straight? Claudio is willing to put his ROH career on the line to get a match with Larry Sweeney. Not that hard to follow. Don't talk to me about having friends. I have friends in the business as well. One of them was a friend of mine before he got into the business so I follow the company that he works for because he's in it and they use a lot of undercard JAPW guys, future JAPW guys and ROH students. I do not purchase the DVD's though because I really do not care much about the product anymore. If I don't like something, I don't buy it. All I'm saying is you must enjoy JAPW to continue to use your time to watch it because if it really wasn't worth it you wouldn't bother. I have a lot of money to spend, I support my friends anyway I can. That's what being a friend is all about. If ROH really wanted to make this a big feud they would of had Strong wrestle singles for the last two months or so defending the title to make it look credible. Right now the belt is forgotten about so feuding over what's the top title is kinda stupid at this point. The belt is hardly forgotten as he has it with him all the time. All of the shows I have seen and been to the Hangman 3 get no reaction and do not work well at all as a team. They still look thrown together. They having matching tights and shirts, they work great together as a fluid big man tag team. Oh Stevens and Cross do work well as a team and I did really like the six man tag at Driven. However when you throw in Aries they just don't click. I'd rather see Delirious tag up with Cross and Stevens full time or I'd rather see Stevens and Cross tag together regardless because I don't care for Stevens as a singles wrestler. Delirious's unit has Steen & Generico. Cross and Stevens need to stay together to fight off the NRC, with someone like Human Tornado or my personal choice of Silas Young teaming with them. BJ Whitmer & Jimmy Jacobs had hate filled brawls and managed to keep it entertaining and pull out things new. So did did the Briscoes/Steenerico feud. There was always something new there and they were hate filled brawls. The Briscoes/Steen & Generico feud had nothing to do with hatred it was about the belts. I understand that he is a limited guy but he hasn't had a match recently that are up to standards with his matches with Joe and Ki. I know everytime Necro is out there you are gonna get a brawl but there's no wrong in changing things up every once and awhile. He hits the same moves in the same order every match. I can call his matches with my eyes shut. Maybe instead of just saying you want change, give some specifics as to what you want changed, because right now you're making no sense. |
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Post by Ultimate Figure Collector on Dec 15, 2007 22:01:46 GMT -5
Just because he has the belt with him at all times doesn't mean it isn't forgotten about. I guess because Jeff Hardy always has the IC Title even though it's hardly ever defended that belt wouldn't be forgotten about either? The FIP title is something that is suppose to be considered a secondary singles title in ROH hasn't been liked at that way since it's come in because it's not defended enough to be looked at as such.
Just because they have matching gear doesn't mean they click as a team.
Delirious still worked better with Cross & Stevens then he does with Generico and Steen. Human Tornado with Cross and Stevens sounds like an awful idea. Tornado should either be on his own or in the Vulture Squad because that's the only stable he fits.
Even so, Whiter & Jacobs was a blood feud and managed to keep things fresh.
Change the match from the last one? There's been nothing different in Necro's matches. Every match he does the tiger driver on the chairs and it gets kicked out of. That should at least be the finish but he's done it so many times that you know it isn't the end. A wrestler should always keep their finisher kept safe and not have it kicked out by every wrestler on the planet. When you have a feud you should be able to go out there and not have the same match every time. There's a reason it's special every time Shawn Michaels and Triple H lock up, Shawn Michaels and Bret lock up, Flair and Steamboat lock up, Austin and The Rock lock up, Samoa Joe & CM Punk, Homicide and Teddy Hart etc. As I said you can call the Briscoes matches with the AOTF with your eyes shut. A few months from now when people ask what was the better matches to check out in that feud people are gonna see that no match was different than the other. It just took place in another market.
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rohreddevil
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Oct 2, 2005 15:51:12 GMT -5
Posts: 153 
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Post by rohreddevil on Dec 15, 2007 22:42:11 GMT -5
How does the Chris Hero vs. Claudio Castagnoli match make sense? Why would Claudio leave if he loses, when he's won like five straight? Claudio is willing to put his ROH career on the line to get a match with Larry Sweeney. Not that hard to follow. Really hard to follow. How does that make any sense? |
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Post by therealjswo on Dec 16, 2007 0:00:22 GMT -5
Just because he has the belt with him at all times doesn't mean it isn't forgotten about. I guess because Jeff Hardy always has the IC Title even though it's hardly ever defended that belt wouldn't be forgotten about either? The FIP title is something that is suppose to be considered a secondary singles title in ROH hasn't been liked at that way since it's come in because it's not defended enough to be looked at as such. Jeff is still announced as the IC champ, even if he isn't defending it. Same goes for Roddy. Just because they have matching gear doesn't mean they click as a team. It doesn't, but they do click as a duo. I'm willing to bet you weren't in Philly nor the midwest shows to see them work together. Delirious still worked better with Cross & Stevens then he does with Generico and Steen. Human Tornado with Cross and Stevens sounds like an awful idea. Tornado should either be on his own or in the Vulture Squad because that's the only stable he fits. Much like in Dragon Gate(which you don't watch or follow), the characters don't have to match, as long as they have common rivals they unite to save themselves. Even so, Whiter & Jacobs was a blood feud and managed to keep things fresh. Big difference between a singles feud like that and the tag feud. Change the match from the last one? There's been nothing different in Necro's matches. Every match he does the tiger driver on the chairs and it gets kicked out of. That should at least be the finish but he's done it so many times that you know it isn't the end. A wrestler should always keep their finisher kept safe and not have it kicked out by every wrestler on the planet. When you have a feud you should be able to go out there and not have the same match every time. There's a reason it's special every time Shawn Michaels and Triple H lock up, Shawn Michaels and Bret lock up, Flair and Steamboat lock up, Austin and The Rock lock up, Samoa Joe & CM Punk, Homicide and Teddy Hart etc. As I said you can call the Briscoes matches with the AOTF with your eyes shut. A few months from now when people ask what was the better matches to check out in that feud people are gonna see that no match was different than the other. It just took place in another market. You still gave no idea on what you want Necro to do different. Nobody protects their finisher anymore. That's just the way it is. |
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Post by Ultimate Figure Collector on Dec 16, 2007 0:30:02 GMT -5
He might be announced as such but my point about it being a forgotten title is that no feuds are built around it. How can it be the top title in ROH? It makes no sense.
I seen them work as a team in NYC. That's all I needed. They didn't click and also didn't get heat.
I don't care what they do in Dragon Gate. Pairing Tornado with Cross and Stevens would be a ****ty idea.
No difference at all. That sounds like a lame excuse. It's ok to admit when ROH doesn't do something fresh.
Yes I did. Necro could change things up and not do his moves in the same order every match. Pay attention
Yes they do. Plenty of guys protect their finishers in other promotions. I can name countless guys that do. Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Undertaker, Samoa Joe, CM Punk, Low Ki, Homicide, Umaga, Cena, Orton. Just because ROH wants to use Fighting Spirit in every match to make it feel like you're seeing something special doesn't mean every other promotion does it.
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Post by therealjswo on Dec 17, 2007 19:12:23 GMT -5
He might be announced as such but my point about it being a forgotten title is that no feuds are built around it. How can it be the top title in ROH? It makes no sense. The feuds over the FIP belt are well documented and a lot of ROH fans follow FIP. So unless you just attend live shows or you don't follow FIP you wouldn't really know. Apparantly FIP shows sell very well so the majority of ROH fans do know what's up with that belt. Could they do more with it? Absolutly. Do I want to see more of Roddy defending it? Yes. I seen them work as a team in NYC. That's all I needed. They didn't click and also didn't get heat. The night before in Philly they got a ton of heat for beating up the beloved Generico and Steen. I was at both shows that weekend and they got enough heat to build up to the big tables match at Final Battle. I don't care what they do in Dragon Gate. Pairing Tornado with Cross and Stevens would be a ****ty idea. Stevens and Tornado had awesome chemistry in Dayton during the 3 way against Davey Richards. In fact, I'd say they exhibited more chemistry together playing off of each other in the match that a singles program would be awesome as well. No difference at all. That sounds like a lame excuse. It's ok to admit when ROH doesn't do something fresh. It's not a lame excuse, it works. Yes I did. Necro could change things up and not do his moves in the same order every match. Pay attention He's still doing the same moves. Just because you mix up the order of a baseball lineup doesn't mean the production changes. If you're going to bitch, at least put some detailed thought into it. Yes they do. Plenty of guys protect their finishers in other promotions. I can name countless guys that do. Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Undertaker, Samoa Joe, CM Punk, Low Ki, Homicide, Umaga, Cena, Orton. Just because ROH wants to use Fighting Spirit in every match to make it feel like you're seeing something special doesn't mean every other promotion does it. The only two people on that list not guilty of killing their finish is Homicide & Undertaker. |
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Post by Ultimate Figure Collector on Dec 17, 2007 21:27:54 GMT -5
I just think they could of done more with it before putting this match together. Nigel was suppose to defend the ROH Title in FIP but that hasn't even happened yet do to Nigel's injury and the recent death. I would of liked to see Strong defend the FIP Title more in ROH and I would of liked to see Nigel defend the FIP Title more in FIP before this match happens. Even if it is the first match of a series of matches, it still could have more heat. I understand a lot has happened with FIP, Nigel's injury and the snow storm but Gabe gets a lot of credit for being a great booker(rightfully so even if I don't agree with some of his decisions) that's why I think he could of done a little more. I cannot comment about Philly because I wasn't there live and haven't checked out the DVD yet. However with NYC, I seen them get a lot of cheers when they did big spots like the Awesome Bomb through two tables and the Exploder Suplex on a chair. I don't recall them getting any heat in the match. To be honest, Tornado has awesome chemistry with just about everybody. Tornado can make anything entertaining. Necro is like the Christopher Daniels of indy's right now. His act is the same every time and it's too repetitive for my tastes. I like Necro a lot but lately I haven't seen anything too impressive. Hopefully he can prove me wrong when he has one of my dream matches with Jack Evans at Final Battle and hopefully soon hooks it up with Nigel. The Briscoes vs Necro Butcher &  matches have not impressed me like I thought they would. How so? The Copkilla and Tombstone have probably been killed out like what? Three times in their careers? I heard Jeff Hardy killed out of the Pedigree last night but before that I don't remember it being killed out of and if it wasn't it was awhile ago. The Sweet Chin Music also isn't something I see kicked out of very much and if it ever is, it's because Shawn Michaels takes 20 seconds to cover his opponent which doesn't make the finisher weak at all. Punk's Go To Sleep hasn't ever been kicked out of yet. Samoa Joe's muscle buster has been kicked out of very few times and I don't recall Low Ki's double stomp ever being kicked out aside from his match with KENTA in ROH or less you are counting the Ki Krusher which hasn't been his finisher for years now. |
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Post by therealjswo on Dec 17, 2007 23:03:33 GMT -5
I just think they could of done more with it before putting this match together. Nigel was suppose to defend the ROH Title in FIP but that hasn't even happened yet do to Nigel's injury and the recent death. I would of liked to see Strong defend the FIP Title more in ROH and I would of liked to see Nigel defend the FIP Title more in FIP before this match happens. Even if it is the first match of a series of matches, it still could have more heat. I understand a lot has happened with FIP, Nigel's injury and the snow storm but Gabe gets a lot of credit for being a great booker(rightfully so even if I don't agree with some of his decisions) that's why I think he could of done a little more. Gabe is able to do what no other booker has the courage to do. That's to mix a ton of different booker's styles into his own hybrid of everything. Somehow it works to the point where the company is now making money, has PPV, contracts, and will have tv in 2008. It's nothing short of a miracle. I cannot comment about Philly because I wasn't there live and haven't checked out the DVD yet. However with NYC, I seen them get a lot of cheers when they did big spots like the Awesome Bomb through two tables and the Exploder Suplex on a chair. I don't recall them getting any heat in the match. Fans will always pop for big spots, but they still booed Pearce and of course BJ. ALBRIGHT is the only one because he's so good that still gets cheers. To be honest, Tornado has awesome chemistry with just about everybody. Tornado can make anything entertaining. So why would a Cross/Stevens/Tornado unit not work? Necro is like the Christopher Daniels of indy's right now. His act is the same every time and it's too repetitive for my tastes. I like Necro a lot but lately I haven't seen anything too impressive. Hopefully he can prove me wrong when he has one of my dream matches with Jack Evans at Final Battle and hopefully soon hooks it up with Nigel. The Briscoes vs Necro Butcher & matches have not impressed me like I thought they would. Jack, as much as I love his work and Necro should be a disaster as far as a wrestling match will go. I just hope both guys can keep it safe. How so? The Copkilla and Tombstone have probably been killed out like what? Three times in their careers? I heard Jeff Hardy killed out of the Pedigree last night but before that I don't remember it being killed out of and if it wasn't it was awhile ago. I'm going to assume killed out = kicked out. Hardy reversed the pedigree. Back during the years 1997-2003 Trips killed the pedigree. That move was done at least twice a match in every main event, if not more. The Sweet Chin Music also isn't something I see kicked out of very much and if it ever is, it's because Shawn Michaels takes 20 seconds to cover his opponent which doesn't make the finisher weak at all. In recent years, mostly since the E went to a let's keep it simple philosophy HBK has protected the move, but that does not remove his previous years of overkill. Punk's Go To Sleep hasn't ever been kicked out of yet. Samoa Joe's muscle buster has been kicked out of very few times and I don't recall Low Ki's double stomp ever being kicked out aside from his match with KENTA in ROH or less you are counting the Ki Krusher which hasn't been his finisher for years now. Punk falls under the new WWE edict, and I'm pretty sure he had a match with Nitro or whatever his name is where he kicked out of it. Joe's muscle buster has been kicked out of a lot in TNA, especially during the post Styles/Daniels 3 way feud. Ki's double stomp I can't say for sure, but JAPW protects it well. IWA and TNA didn't really do it as much as they should. All finishers should be protected, no matter who is doing them. |
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Post by Ultimate Figure Collector on Dec 18, 2007 0:22:56 GMT -5
Pearce does get heat because I think there are some people that legit hate him but the BJ Whitmer heat I've seen him get when I've been to live shows is mostly you suck heat when he botches a move(like a suplex in NYC) or heat calling him Mr. Kennedy because of his new look.
I didn't say it couldn't work. It's just not an idea I would go with but I'm not gonna say that I don't see it happening because it probably will and hey, maybe it will work maybe it won't. As I've mentioned Gabe will take a chance with things.
Ever since I seen these two in a four way at JAPW I also involving Hart and Hero I have wanted to see this match. No doubt it's gonna be a disaster but it's either gonna be a good disaster or an awful disaster and for some reason that interests me.
I'm going to assume killed out = kicked out. Hardy reversed the pedigree. Back during the years 1997-2003 Trips killed the pedigree. That move was done at least twice a match in every main event, if not more.
Agreed.
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