Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2008 0:50:01 GMT -5
So if everything that we are reading on Meltzers Observer, Scherers PWInsider, and McCafretys DOI is true about ROH and the fact that the PPV project hasn't been succesful as they might have liked and it looks like the 6 PPV run will be finnished with 6, does that mean ROH will cancel the contracts and medical coverage used to leverage the wrestlers for the PPV project.
With no PPV why waste money on contracts, and seriously even WWE doesnt offer medical, but to leverage their wrestlers they had to offer it.
The fact that it is a failure and with wrestlers losing paydays, moral is most likely to be hurt and loyalty which was unquestioned before will come in to question now.
Will ROH survive the PPV fiasco, cutbacks are already being put in place to ease the blow, but can they survive even with those cutbacks.
Can loyal talent remain loyal without the locked in number of paydays being reduced and no safety net in place like they had before. Guys like Aries and Strong may think twice if thrust into the same situation that came about with TNA
Has ROH peaked and can they grow any bigger than a traveling indy that is using less and less big name talent and more and more of the likes of Dingo, Silas Young, Seth Skyfire, Danny Daniels, Dan Lawrence, Bobby Fish, Adam Pearce, Shane Hagadorn, Ernie Osiris, Mitch Franklin, Alex Payne, Kyle Durden,
Chasyn Rance, Kenny King, Pelle Primeau, and Eddie Edwards.
The lack of depth in the ROH roster is really gonna start to show now if those are the talents that will be rounding out the ROH shows with the major name talent being taken off.
If ROH stops paying usher boy, chair setter upper, ring helper stooges then someone else might even agree with me!!
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Post by sincityhero on Jan 31, 2008 0:58:04 GMT -5
I hope they bounce back from this is if this stuff is true. I would hate to see a ROH where its crowded with no name crappy guys.
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Billy the Kid
Main Eventer
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Post by Billy the Kid on Jan 31, 2008 0:58:22 GMT -5
I'm going off personal experiences... the guys that do the ushering, setting up the chairs, and the ring are most likely ROH students and DO NOT get paid for what they're doing. I never got paid doing that stuff until I actually started wrestling on shows.
I did not know that ROH offered medical benefits, but if that's true that is pretty cool.
I don't necessarily agree with your statement saying ROH will "discontinue" without PPV. It was a big step for them and yes, they have a lot of die-hard fans but in order to cater to casual fan who will buy their PPV's they need to bring in some big name talent that the casual fan will recognize.
Wrestling is so different than it used to be because I remember going to indy shows when WWF and WCW were at the peak of their existance with ECW not far behind. But those indy shows were not like today. Everyone and their mother can run a show these days and it's just not the same anymore.
I think ROH can survive without PPV but then again, that's coming from a die-hard fan who will always watch no matter if they're on PPV or not and I'm sure they have a lot of fans like me.
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Billy the Kid
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 5, 2004 19:43:31 GMT -5
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Post by Billy the Kid on Jan 31, 2008 1:02:15 GMT -5
I hope they bounce back from this is if this stuff is true. I would hate to see a ROH where its crowded with no name crappy guys. What do you think Raven was before he became a big star in ECW? Sure he worked the Pacific Northwest terrority, but he wasn't near the caliber of what he became. ECW was full of a lot of "no name" guys before it got big also. Talented "no name" guys like ROH has been booking lately like Erick Stevens, Bobby Fish, Adam Pearce, and others are the future of the business. Guys like Matt Striker, Mike Kruel, Jay Lethal, and others were working indy shows in 2003 and 2004 and they were "no names," now look where they are... it takes time. |
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Post by the franchise on Jan 31, 2008 1:16:18 GMT -5
That arguement about guys missing paydays is sort of weak. Just because ROH isn't paying them doesn't mean they are missing money. Lets ask the Briscoes if they mind going to work for NOAH where they pay you more money. There are a ton of indy companies that would book them if ROH didn't. The same would go for any other wrestler. I also never understood why the top name talent is suppose to equal a good match. I can honestly say that I have never seen a good Samoe Joe match in person. Also didn't Rave leave ROH over a dispute about health insurance? So what type of insurance does ROH really offer. With all that being said they will probably survive.
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Post by Ultimate Figure Collector on Jan 31, 2008 1:16:22 GMT -5
Ring Of Honor thus far is off to a pretty bad 2008. Their shows in Boston & Edison were VERY lackluster with a dead crowd. Even though usher boy will deny it I talked to many fans that night, some of which I have never meet which said to be "this is the most boring ROH show I've ever been to". Everyone was putting the show down that night until the main event which I think sent people home happy but also put the wrestlers in danger to save such a horrible show. The recent midwest double shows didn't look like much either. The Chicago card was nowhere near as stacked as usual and the Dayton show I will give it as it looked like a fun show but it didn't look "amazing". ROH's upcoming Manhattan show also isn't as strong as the past shows. ROH is repeating A LOT of rematches as of late and because of PPV feuds are being dragged out. The Delirious/Hangmen 3 feud has been going on since August and I really don't know if ROH even has any idea on how they are ending this feud, I'm sure usher boy can give us an idea on future booking plans though!
Basically I don't see 2008 being a strong year for ROH. It's off to a bad start and if the product don't pick up with some fresh match ups I might just stop purchasing the DVD's. No angles right now seem to have any real direction other than Danielson/Shima. Danielson/Nigel has been built up for months and you would think the story going into it is that Danielson always has one up on Nigel but when you have Danielson doing jobs to Erick Stevens and Jimmy Jacobs he doesn't exactly look unbeatable.
ROH is starting to really bore me. Let's hope they can turn it around and give us some fresh feuds. I'm sick of watching the same matches for 6 months now. I understand the point of feuds but when every feud has to last 6 months it gets very tiresome. ROH has booked a lot of stables to keep things fresh. Honestly that's the reason they did it because they can get a lot out of and have a lot of 6 man spot matches. That isn't as exciting right now either because no one is really feuding with each other anymore. ROH was building towards the end of the NRC/Vulture Squad feud but we never got it. Aries also never really had an end to his feud with Strong. ROH now seems to be pushing more towards a VS/AOTF feud but at the same time AOTF are feuding with the Briscoes. Everyone is feuding with everyone and it's just a mess. I don't think Gabe has any real direction on where he's taking things.
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Post by sincityhero on Jan 31, 2008 1:27:31 GMT -5
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Post by sincityhero on Jan 31, 2008 1:30:29 GMT -5
I dont consider Erick Stevens and Adam Peirce no name crappy wrestlers.
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Post by xshawnxwilliamsx on Jan 31, 2008 2:23:12 GMT -5
Damn, I I hope if they do end up dropping the PPV deal that it won't effect a lot of their current roster because as it is they've already lost a lot of big names that have went to TNA. My only dislike with their PPV deal is that the PPV airs like 3-4 months after the show actually happened which makes it harder for fans to actually follow the storylines. If their PPV's took place sooner after it happened I think it might make people more convinced to order it since they would know they'd always be up to date with ROH's new events. And TNA not allowing wrestlers to work ROH shows is just making their roster situation even more difficult. I think that's pretty much the main thing affecting it right now. So yeah, I don't really care if the PPV deal falls through or not as long as ROH stays alive and still puts on amazing shows.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2008 3:01:54 GMT -5
I didn't mean discontinue operations, I meant discontinue the contracts and medical coverage which I am sure are contributing to the financial woes of ROH.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2008 3:04:47 GMT -5
I'm going off personal experiences... the guys that do the ushering, setting up the chairs, and the ring are most likely ROH students and DO NOT get paid for what they're doing. I never got paid doing that stuff until I actually started wrestling on shows. Tell that to JSWO! I did not know that ROH offered medical benefits, but if that's true that is pretty cool. It is great for the wrestlers, but it may turn out to be a very expensive proposition to keep wrestlers loyal. I think ROH can survive without PPV but then again, that's coming from a die-hard fan who will always watch no matter if they're on PPV or not and I'm sure they have a lot of fans like me. Yeah but will you still go with half the name talent and the other half of the show with guys like ....Dingo, Silas Young, Seth Skyfire, Danny Daniels, Dan Lawrence, Bobby Fish, Adam Pearce, Shane Hagadorn, Ernie Osiris, Mitch Franklin, Alex Payne, Kyle Durden, Chasyn Rance, Kenny King, Pelle Primeau, and Eddie Edwards |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2008 3:09:36 GMT -5
That arguement about guys missing paydays is sort of weak. Just because ROH isn't paying them doesn't mean they are missing money. Lets ask the Briscoes if they mind going to work for NOAH where they pay you more money. Also didn't Rave leave ROH over a dispute about health insurance? Yeah other than the Briscoes, and American Dragon the rest of the roster suffers without the international paydays, Hero and Claudio dont count cause they were doing international way before ROH. So all of the others get rotated out and lose paydays and no other indys want to book them on the regular for fear of being brought back in for a cycle of shows thus not getting a regular payday outside of ROH. It is well known that Gabe despised Jimmy Rave and their was major problems between the two. The fact that their was problems over the medical was that Gabe was unwilling to give him one period and thus Rave leaving. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2008 8:29:46 GMT -5
i could care less if they stopped the PPVS, i only ordered the first one. i think its such a waste to spend $15 on only half the show when I can put in 5 more dollars and get to keep the show, get another disk and a box for it.
roh isnt gonna die
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newfrigginshow
Main Eventer
NFS
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Post by newfrigginshow on Jan 31, 2008 11:26:24 GMT -5
I think everyone is panicking for really no solid reason. ROH is going to go through growing pains and ups and downs. They are still a small company and any chipping away at the bottom line is scary for them so they have to be careful. I'd like to see them cut the roster down a little bit and just focus on developing like 20 core guys with great fueds and more emphasis on their personalities and some simple storylines. I wish they had some sort of a weekly show to download on itunes, to show a couple matches from DVD and recap the storylines and plug upcoming DVD's. I know they've got some free stuff, but imagine a weekly download for like a couple of bucks.
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Post by AP on Jan 31, 2008 12:09:48 GMT -5
wait since when is Adam Pearce no name? hes the nwa champ...
maybe its cuz im from socal and have known of him since before i even knew of indy wrestling, but to call him no name seems dumb.
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Post by HHH316 on Jan 31, 2008 12:30:39 GMT -5
wait since when is Adam Pearce no name? hes the nwa champ... maybe its cuz im from socal and have known of him since before i even knew of indy wrestling, but to call him no name seems dumb. Being the NWA champ doesnt mean anything anymore. |
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Post by kevinwillis on Jan 31, 2008 12:36:50 GMT -5
As a long time ROH fan, and indy supporter I can't help but express disdain with this poster. The obvious bias here is incredible. From his misrepresentation of facts to his lack of knowledge of the talent used I can't see how anyone takes this person seriously.
For a guy who runs a website like the DOI why must he hide behind a fake name? Why must he take cheap shots at people he's jealous of? This all goes to the credibility or lack thereof the writer.
As it appears the Sean wants to see ROH fail because it would be in the best interest of himself and Jersey All Pro, a company that allows Sean into shows for free. This means they would get highly rated reviews on all shows.
I just wonder if he had some class whether or not ROH would be willing to work with him. Unfortunatly it's far too late for that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2008 1:24:00 GMT -5
As a long time ROH fan, and indy supporter I can't help but express disdain with this poster. The obvious bias here is incredible. From his misrepresentation of facts to his lack of knowledge of the talent used I can't see how anyone takes this person seriously. For a guy who runs a website like the DOI why must he hide behind a fake name? Why must he take cheap shots at people he's jealous of? This all goes to the credibility or lack thereof the writer. As it appears the Sean wants to see ROH fail because it would be in the best interest of himself and Jersey All Pro, a company that allows Sean into shows for free. This means they would get highly rated reviews on all shows. I just wonder if he had some class whether or not ROH would be willing to work with him. Unfortunatly it's far too late for that. Please retort and explain where I misrepresented facts, I challenge you to debate my facts. How did I misrepresent talent, look at the past results, all subpar talent that ROH used in the past few months. The ROH roster is weak right now, very obvious and will get weaker with the cuts. To the Adam Pierce fans, yes he sucks, he is boring, h has been mailing in his matches for a while now, and adds NOTHING to the shows whats so ever. He is one talent that I am glad ROH is getting rid of. And yes I know he is NWA champion, but that means as much as my kid neighbors backyard fed in this day and age. The only people who mark out for the NWA still is Dave Marquez and Ricky O! |
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Post by kevinwillis on Feb 1, 2008 16:34:05 GMT -5
As a long time ROH fan, and indy supporter I can't help but express disdain with this poster. The obvious bias here is incredible. From his misrepresentation of facts to his lack of knowledge of the talent used I can't see how anyone takes this person seriously. For a guy who runs a website like the DOI why must he hide behind a fake name? Why must he take cheap shots at people he's jealous of? This all goes to the credibility or lack thereof the writer. As it appears the Sean wants to see ROH fail because it would be in the best interest of himself and Jersey All Pro, a company that allows Sean into shows for free. This means they would get highly rated reviews on all shows. I just wonder if he had some class whether or not ROH would be willing to work with him. Unfortunatly it's far too late for that. Please retort and explain where I misrepresented facts, I challenge you to debate my facts. How did I misrepresent talent, look at the past results, all subpar talent that ROH used in the past few months. The ROH roster is weak right now, very obvious and will get weaker with the cuts. To the Adam Pierce fans, yes he sucks, he is boring, h has been mailing in his matches for a while now, and adds NOTHING to the shows whats so ever. He is one talent that I am glad ROH is getting rid of. And yes I know he is NWA champion, but that means as much as my kid neighbors backyard fed in this day and age. The only people who mark out for the NWA still is Dave Marquez and Ricky O! You mentioned, these talents... Dingo, Silas Young, Seth Skyfire, Danny Daniels, Dan Lawrence, Bobby Fish, Adam Pearce, Shane Hagadorn, Ernie Osiris, Mitch Franklin, Alex Payne, Kyle Durden, Chasyn Rance, Kenny King, Pelle Primeau, and Eddie Edwards, as if they were featured performers on the show. Dingo works pre-shows, Silas Young is with WWE and worked one main show against Nigel. Lawrence I believe worked a main show and several student matches in chicago. Fish is a local guy just as Edwards is. They are two solid wrestlers with NOAH experience. I also enjoy a lot of Adam Pearce's work but he's not for everyone. He's a great promo guy. Excluding the YRR who are big indy names from Florida's FIP the others are and were ROH students. Using them comes with them training at the school. You make it sound as if those guys are main eventing and are featured talents in ROH. Every wrestling company needs undercard and enhancement talent. Also, Pelle Primeau is over to a lot of the ROH crowd. He's small and not taken seriously against big dudes but he's a great babyface underdog. His breakout match in February last year was awesome, mostly thanks to him. Also why and how could ROH get rid of Adam Pearce when he's booked on future shows and he's the leader of the Hangmen 3? I'd say the ROH roster is not as strong as it was when Joe and Homicide and Cabana were around but it has a lot of really great talent. The Briscoes, Claudio, Hero, NRC, Albright, Whitmer, Aries, Danielson, Nigel, Pearce, Generico, Steen, Delirious(finally revammped), Stevens, Shiozaki(full time starting next show), Human Tornado, etc. I feel you're posts show a bias for some reason against ROH. I would love to know why you seem so angry with a silly wrestling promotion. |
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Andrew
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 25, 2006 6:45:29 GMT -5
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Post by Andrew on Feb 1, 2008 16:37:07 GMT -5
Its the growing pains, Its like a circle of life or after something has just Molted, Its going to be weak at the start after being in its prime. Give it time and let it get back.
they are losing big name stars of course, But give it time and let the current crop become the stars of the future.
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