Post by ajrobles51 on Aug 15, 2008 17:21:38 GMT -5
weblogs.newsday.com/sports/specialevent/wrestling/2008/08/interview_with_tito_santana.html
Interview with Tito Santana
Pro Wrestling Revolution returns to the Upper Room World Center at 722 Deer Park Avenue in Dix Hills Saturday night for another loaded show featuring the young stars of PWR, as well as faces from the past. Tickets are just $10 and $15. More information on the show is available at PWR’s official web site.
Along with Jimmy Hart and Bushwacker Luke, one of the legends who will be on hand for the show will be one of my favorite wrestlers growing up, multi-time Intercontinental champion Tito Santana, who will be selling and signing a few rare copies of his book “Tales from the Ring.”
I had the opportunity to chat with Tito about his book, returning to New York, his induction into the WWE Hall of Fame, WWE’s history of casting racial gimmicks, working with Shawn Michaels early in HBK’s singles career, and his few regrets in a storied career.
AC: I know you still come around every once in a while for independent shows in New York. Going back to your days headlining in Madison Square Garden, this has always been a big city to perform in. Can you talk about how the crowds here are different than in other places?
TS: To me, the New York crowd is probably one of the most difficult crowds there is. I always heard that if you can get over in New York, you can get over anywhere. But once you get over, if they like you, they like you. It’s a good feeling. It’s just like in any professional team. Look at the Yankees and the Mets. A lot of people are not able to wrestle in New York.
AC: And some of your biggest moments were here. I’m guessing being part of the first match ever at WrestleMania must have been a pretty big thrill.
TS: Oh yeah. And I had a great feud with Greg Valentine in New York. We had curfew matches, no time limit matches. We just did all kinds of stuff.
AC: Let’s go into that a little. WWE’s been showing a lot of your work recently on its WWE 24/7 On Demand channel, and it’s pretty clear that what you were doing, with Greg and with some other people you worked with, was so different than what was otherwise going on in the WWF at the time. It really wasn’t wrestling, as much as cartoon entertainment for kids. But you and a handful of other people were still going out there and putting on long, dramatic wrestling matches. Why was that important to you, when it really wasn’t part of the WWF product?
TS: That was my style, and I believe that’s what helped me get over. The world champion, Hulk Hogan, and I had completely different styles. I don’t want to be the one that knocks Hulk Hogan. He still got over like a million dollars and sold a ton of tickets and a lot of merchandise. The last thing I want to do is knock Hulk. That’s what was so different back then, compared to now – Everybody had a different style. You had George “The Animal” Steele, you had the Bushwackers, you had myself, Bundy, Kamala – all different gimmicks. Now everybody pretty much resembles each other. They’ve got those big muscle bound bodies. They don’t even wear different costumes. They pretty much look the same when they hit the ramp, compared to in the years past when I was around. Everybody was a different character.
AC: You were part of the first nine WrestleManias, which was a record at the time. What did it mean to you that you were kind of the go-to guy for all those major shows?
TS: It was important. At the time, I was in the WWF longer than anybody else had been. There have been other guys who have stayed there longer since. But at the time I had the longest streak of being in the World Wrestling Federation. And for somebody who was not Hulk Hogan, it was a pretty good run. I believe that the only reason was because my work. I was able to be utilized in ways where I had to put guys over at times, and I was still able to stay over with the fans. People believed in Tito Santana, regardless of whether I was going down or not.
AC: Did you ever wish you turned heel in the WWF?
TS: Yes, I did. I asked Vince McMahon when (Rick) Martel and I split up, if I could be that would be the heel when the split up came. When we came back, unknown to myself – and I’m sure Rick Martel had known this for quite a while – he was going to be coming back as “The Model.” I’m sure he practiced, and if he didn’t practice, he did a great job as “The Model.” So I just have the tendency to believe that all this was already set up.
AC: Do you have any regrets about that? Do you wonder how much more you could have extended your career there if you were able to freshen up your act with a heel turn?
TS: Yeah. I do feel I could have had another great run as a heel, because I saw wrestlers with a lot less ability than I had that were able to make the transition from babyface to heel. So I felt that I had a big enough understanding for the business where I could have made the transition, and I could be the one in control of the match. In the past, as the babyface, I used to like to follow the heel and integrate my style with them. But I figured I was knowledgeable enough where I could be a Mr. Perfect or Mr. Wonderful type of wrestler.
AC: One thing I’ve always wanted to ask you because the WWF has historically had this reputation for casting racially-insensitive characters, right up until now with Cryme Tyme – this black tag team that just robs everybody. Did you ever feel you fell victim to that, especially with the “El Matador” gimmick? You know, “We have a Mexican guy so let’s put a sombrero on him.” Were you ever offended by some of what they did with your character?
TS: No, I know that I got pushed as a Mexican, and I was very, very proud to represent the Hispanics throughout the country and throughout the world. He gave me the Matador gimmick, and I believe I that I did a pretty good job as the Matador, but I believe that Vince McMahon didn’t really have big, big plans for the Matador. It was just a way of pacifying me for a little bit longer. I don’t think he wanted me to go somewhere else, which I had no intention of doing. Once I quit, I didn’t want to go to WCW and be on the road. I had enough of being on the road. I wish they had pushed El Matador and let El Matador get over. As much money as he spent on the character, I thought he was really going to push it. But that was not the case.
AC: You took on Shawn Michaels in his first singles match at a WrestleMania. Did you know sense at the time that he would go on to be one of the two or three best wrestlers of this generation?
TS: Yeah. That was the beginning of a big push for Shawn Michaels. He was very well liked. At the time, there were so many great wrestlers that anybody they would have chosen… It’s like when they chose Hulk Hogan as the world champion. I believe there was so many wrestlers that could have done the job with all the promotion he ended up getting. The same thing with Shawn Michaels. There were so many young guys and guys who had been there, that whoever Vince had decided to push, Vince knew how to get over. He just happened to be the lucky one. Without a doubt he was able to carry the load. He was a great worker. And to me, that’s professional sports – just happening to me in the right place at the right time. I happened to me in the right place at the right time in 1983. And Shawn happened to be at the right place at the right time in 1991 or thereabouts. It’s a lot of luck.
AC: Do you ever begrudge that you were never given a run with the world title?
TS: I did get a top main event push when me and Greg were main eventing... Me and Greg sold out big arenas without Hulk Hogan.
AC: Sure, and later with Randy Savage as well.
TS: … At one point Bobby Heenan told me that Vince McMahon did surveys and I was the third most recognizable athlete in the world at one point. Hulk Hogan was number one. One of the tennis players was number two. And they said I was number three. And Vince told Sgt. Slaughter that I was getting more fan mail at one point than anybody in the WWF. So that made me feel good. At the time, the babyfaces didn’t wrestle against the babyfaces. So I never expected a shot against Hulk Hogan. I did get one shot, when the [Iron] Sheik was world champion in Philadelphia… Of course he lost it the following Monday. The crowd almost doubled in Philadelphia from one month to another. I was in the middle card the previous month with Sheik. And then he was the world champion the next month and we were the main event and it doubled.
AC: Do you think about how much your life would have been different and the WWF’s fortunes would have been different if they gave you a run with the world title?
TS: I think my life would have been different. I don’t think the WWF’s fortunes would have been different. Vince McMahon is all about money. Whoever he chooses to promote, he’s going to market them, and he’s going to make money with whoever he decides to go with it. I was just unfortunate that I wasn’t the one that he chose. But for the run that I had, I really can’t complain. I was very, very lucky to have the run that I had in the WWF.
AC: I was there in New York City when you were inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame in 2004. When I’ve talked to wrestlers who aren’t in the hall of fame, they kind of play it down, and talk about how the business is a work and there’s no real criteria for being inducted – that’s it’s very political. But the people who are in it, obviously, speak very well of it. What did it mean to you to get inducted and what are your thoughts on the hall of fame?
TS: My thought is that it’s very important to the wrestling fans, and really the wrestling fan is the only one who really matters. When I first went in there, I didn’t know what to expect. Maybe some of the wrestlers, some of my peers don’t believe that I deserve to be in the hall of fame. But I believe that all of us who are in it deserve it. And there’s a bunch who haven’t gotten in there who will get there. It’s a big honor for the WWF to get you into the hall of fame. They’re even recognizing people who are deserving who were outside the WWF. Our business is entertainment, and it made me feel like the WWF thinks that I was one of the best performers in the WWF, deserving to be in the hall of fame. For me it’s an honor, and it’s shame that in our business there are a lot of wrestlers who are very bitter and are not doing very well financially. And they blame everybody else except themselves. I believe most of the guys who worked on top made a lot of money and if they had saved their money, they’d be in a different situation.
AC: Does anybody come to mind who you feel should be in the hall of fame who isn’t there yet?
TS: I believe Bundy should be in there.
AC: Do you think your old partner Rick Martel should be in there?
TS: I don’t doubt that Rick Martel will be in there soon enough. I don’t know how many years Ric was in the WWF, but I think he more than deserves to be in there. They spread them out. They only put so many at a time. I think he will be. He’s certainly well-deserving to be in there. Is Jake in the hall of fame?
AC: He’s not, no. Not yet. A lot of guys from your era aren’t in yet. Savage isn’t in yet.
TS: Well, Savage, I think is because of problems that Vince had. I don’t know. I don’t even want to talk about it, because I don’t know.
AC: Yeah. I’ve heard. What do you think about the nostalgia kick that WWE is on now? For years, they didn’t acknowledge anything that was more than a few years old, and now, in between the 24/7 channel, and MSG Classics, and the line of classic action figures. There seems to be more of an appreciation now for the history of your era than there has been in a long time.
TS: I think probably the fans are the ones – I think they do a lot of surveys and they’re finding out that the wrestling my era is still positive compared to what’s going on now. To me, the legends are still superior – we were certainly better workers than what they have now. You have Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker. I consider Triple H a pretty good worker. There’s a few good workers. But there are some guys who will never get a chance to learn from guys like we did, day in and day out. It’s a shame. I think the fans are the ones that run a lot of what’s going on now.
AC: Can you tell me about how you came to write your book, and what you think of the final product?
TS: I think the final product was great. I had a big influence when I was an eighth grade student. A coach was very influential in my life and got me started in sports the following year. He tried to get me to go out for sports in my eight grade year, but coming from a Mexican family, who were migrants with very little money, I thought we had to buy our equipment. I didn’t even ask my mom if I could play. I just thought there was no way we could afford to buy the equipment for this. It was out of the question. So, I believe I could have gone the wrong way in life, but because of that coach who got me involved in sports, I believe everything that I’ve accomplished, he had a little bit to do with. So I started thinking, way before it got as big as it did, when I used to travel in a plane, I started making notes and keeping a diary. I just said, ‘Some day, there’s a chance that I might publish a book. And if I can help influence one person the way I was influenced…” I know the difference it made in my life. I could have gone the drugs route. We lived right on the border, and a lot of my friends did go into drugs, you know selling, and doing the heavy-duty drugs in South Texas. I was very blessed that I had Coach Sanchez, who guided me and was my big influence.
I talk about my life a little bit. I talk about my experience with promoters. I went through some hard times dealing with promoters. I talk about Ole Anderson, who is not very well liked by too many people in our business, who made life miserable for me. He tried to manipulate my life, and I stuck with it. I talk about my experiences on the road with the WWF, and friendships with other wrestlers. I just try to cover pretty much everything. I talk a little about drugs, and how some of my friends are not around anymore because they got to heavily involved with drugs. I just try to capture a little bit of life in our business.
Interview with Tito Santana
Pro Wrestling Revolution returns to the Upper Room World Center at 722 Deer Park Avenue in Dix Hills Saturday night for another loaded show featuring the young stars of PWR, as well as faces from the past. Tickets are just $10 and $15. More information on the show is available at PWR’s official web site.
Along with Jimmy Hart and Bushwacker Luke, one of the legends who will be on hand for the show will be one of my favorite wrestlers growing up, multi-time Intercontinental champion Tito Santana, who will be selling and signing a few rare copies of his book “Tales from the Ring.”
I had the opportunity to chat with Tito about his book, returning to New York, his induction into the WWE Hall of Fame, WWE’s history of casting racial gimmicks, working with Shawn Michaels early in HBK’s singles career, and his few regrets in a storied career.
AC: I know you still come around every once in a while for independent shows in New York. Going back to your days headlining in Madison Square Garden, this has always been a big city to perform in. Can you talk about how the crowds here are different than in other places?
TS: To me, the New York crowd is probably one of the most difficult crowds there is. I always heard that if you can get over in New York, you can get over anywhere. But once you get over, if they like you, they like you. It’s a good feeling. It’s just like in any professional team. Look at the Yankees and the Mets. A lot of people are not able to wrestle in New York.
AC: And some of your biggest moments were here. I’m guessing being part of the first match ever at WrestleMania must have been a pretty big thrill.
TS: Oh yeah. And I had a great feud with Greg Valentine in New York. We had curfew matches, no time limit matches. We just did all kinds of stuff.
AC: Let’s go into that a little. WWE’s been showing a lot of your work recently on its WWE 24/7 On Demand channel, and it’s pretty clear that what you were doing, with Greg and with some other people you worked with, was so different than what was otherwise going on in the WWF at the time. It really wasn’t wrestling, as much as cartoon entertainment for kids. But you and a handful of other people were still going out there and putting on long, dramatic wrestling matches. Why was that important to you, when it really wasn’t part of the WWF product?
TS: That was my style, and I believe that’s what helped me get over. The world champion, Hulk Hogan, and I had completely different styles. I don’t want to be the one that knocks Hulk Hogan. He still got over like a million dollars and sold a ton of tickets and a lot of merchandise. The last thing I want to do is knock Hulk. That’s what was so different back then, compared to now – Everybody had a different style. You had George “The Animal” Steele, you had the Bushwackers, you had myself, Bundy, Kamala – all different gimmicks. Now everybody pretty much resembles each other. They’ve got those big muscle bound bodies. They don’t even wear different costumes. They pretty much look the same when they hit the ramp, compared to in the years past when I was around. Everybody was a different character.
AC: You were part of the first nine WrestleManias, which was a record at the time. What did it mean to you that you were kind of the go-to guy for all those major shows?
TS: It was important. At the time, I was in the WWF longer than anybody else had been. There have been other guys who have stayed there longer since. But at the time I had the longest streak of being in the World Wrestling Federation. And for somebody who was not Hulk Hogan, it was a pretty good run. I believe that the only reason was because my work. I was able to be utilized in ways where I had to put guys over at times, and I was still able to stay over with the fans. People believed in Tito Santana, regardless of whether I was going down or not.
AC: Did you ever wish you turned heel in the WWF?
TS: Yes, I did. I asked Vince McMahon when (Rick) Martel and I split up, if I could be that would be the heel when the split up came. When we came back, unknown to myself – and I’m sure Rick Martel had known this for quite a while – he was going to be coming back as “The Model.” I’m sure he practiced, and if he didn’t practice, he did a great job as “The Model.” So I just have the tendency to believe that all this was already set up.
AC: Do you have any regrets about that? Do you wonder how much more you could have extended your career there if you were able to freshen up your act with a heel turn?
TS: Yeah. I do feel I could have had another great run as a heel, because I saw wrestlers with a lot less ability than I had that were able to make the transition from babyface to heel. So I felt that I had a big enough understanding for the business where I could have made the transition, and I could be the one in control of the match. In the past, as the babyface, I used to like to follow the heel and integrate my style with them. But I figured I was knowledgeable enough where I could be a Mr. Perfect or Mr. Wonderful type of wrestler.
AC: One thing I’ve always wanted to ask you because the WWF has historically had this reputation for casting racially-insensitive characters, right up until now with Cryme Tyme – this black tag team that just robs everybody. Did you ever feel you fell victim to that, especially with the “El Matador” gimmick? You know, “We have a Mexican guy so let’s put a sombrero on him.” Were you ever offended by some of what they did with your character?
TS: No, I know that I got pushed as a Mexican, and I was very, very proud to represent the Hispanics throughout the country and throughout the world. He gave me the Matador gimmick, and I believe I that I did a pretty good job as the Matador, but I believe that Vince McMahon didn’t really have big, big plans for the Matador. It was just a way of pacifying me for a little bit longer. I don’t think he wanted me to go somewhere else, which I had no intention of doing. Once I quit, I didn’t want to go to WCW and be on the road. I had enough of being on the road. I wish they had pushed El Matador and let El Matador get over. As much money as he spent on the character, I thought he was really going to push it. But that was not the case.
AC: You took on Shawn Michaels in his first singles match at a WrestleMania. Did you know sense at the time that he would go on to be one of the two or three best wrestlers of this generation?
TS: Yeah. That was the beginning of a big push for Shawn Michaels. He was very well liked. At the time, there were so many great wrestlers that anybody they would have chosen… It’s like when they chose Hulk Hogan as the world champion. I believe there was so many wrestlers that could have done the job with all the promotion he ended up getting. The same thing with Shawn Michaels. There were so many young guys and guys who had been there, that whoever Vince had decided to push, Vince knew how to get over. He just happened to be the lucky one. Without a doubt he was able to carry the load. He was a great worker. And to me, that’s professional sports – just happening to me in the right place at the right time. I happened to me in the right place at the right time in 1983. And Shawn happened to be at the right place at the right time in 1991 or thereabouts. It’s a lot of luck.
AC: Do you ever begrudge that you were never given a run with the world title?
TS: I did get a top main event push when me and Greg were main eventing... Me and Greg sold out big arenas without Hulk Hogan.
AC: Sure, and later with Randy Savage as well.
TS: … At one point Bobby Heenan told me that Vince McMahon did surveys and I was the third most recognizable athlete in the world at one point. Hulk Hogan was number one. One of the tennis players was number two. And they said I was number three. And Vince told Sgt. Slaughter that I was getting more fan mail at one point than anybody in the WWF. So that made me feel good. At the time, the babyfaces didn’t wrestle against the babyfaces. So I never expected a shot against Hulk Hogan. I did get one shot, when the [Iron] Sheik was world champion in Philadelphia… Of course he lost it the following Monday. The crowd almost doubled in Philadelphia from one month to another. I was in the middle card the previous month with Sheik. And then he was the world champion the next month and we were the main event and it doubled.
AC: Do you think about how much your life would have been different and the WWF’s fortunes would have been different if they gave you a run with the world title?
TS: I think my life would have been different. I don’t think the WWF’s fortunes would have been different. Vince McMahon is all about money. Whoever he chooses to promote, he’s going to market them, and he’s going to make money with whoever he decides to go with it. I was just unfortunate that I wasn’t the one that he chose. But for the run that I had, I really can’t complain. I was very, very lucky to have the run that I had in the WWF.
AC: I was there in New York City when you were inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame in 2004. When I’ve talked to wrestlers who aren’t in the hall of fame, they kind of play it down, and talk about how the business is a work and there’s no real criteria for being inducted – that’s it’s very political. But the people who are in it, obviously, speak very well of it. What did it mean to you to get inducted and what are your thoughts on the hall of fame?
TS: My thought is that it’s very important to the wrestling fans, and really the wrestling fan is the only one who really matters. When I first went in there, I didn’t know what to expect. Maybe some of the wrestlers, some of my peers don’t believe that I deserve to be in the hall of fame. But I believe that all of us who are in it deserve it. And there’s a bunch who haven’t gotten in there who will get there. It’s a big honor for the WWF to get you into the hall of fame. They’re even recognizing people who are deserving who were outside the WWF. Our business is entertainment, and it made me feel like the WWF thinks that I was one of the best performers in the WWF, deserving to be in the hall of fame. For me it’s an honor, and it’s shame that in our business there are a lot of wrestlers who are very bitter and are not doing very well financially. And they blame everybody else except themselves. I believe most of the guys who worked on top made a lot of money and if they had saved their money, they’d be in a different situation.
AC: Does anybody come to mind who you feel should be in the hall of fame who isn’t there yet?
TS: I believe Bundy should be in there.
AC: Do you think your old partner Rick Martel should be in there?
TS: I don’t doubt that Rick Martel will be in there soon enough. I don’t know how many years Ric was in the WWF, but I think he more than deserves to be in there. They spread them out. They only put so many at a time. I think he will be. He’s certainly well-deserving to be in there. Is Jake in the hall of fame?
AC: He’s not, no. Not yet. A lot of guys from your era aren’t in yet. Savage isn’t in yet.
TS: Well, Savage, I think is because of problems that Vince had. I don’t know. I don’t even want to talk about it, because I don’t know.
AC: Yeah. I’ve heard. What do you think about the nostalgia kick that WWE is on now? For years, they didn’t acknowledge anything that was more than a few years old, and now, in between the 24/7 channel, and MSG Classics, and the line of classic action figures. There seems to be more of an appreciation now for the history of your era than there has been in a long time.
TS: I think probably the fans are the ones – I think they do a lot of surveys and they’re finding out that the wrestling my era is still positive compared to what’s going on now. To me, the legends are still superior – we were certainly better workers than what they have now. You have Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker. I consider Triple H a pretty good worker. There’s a few good workers. But there are some guys who will never get a chance to learn from guys like we did, day in and day out. It’s a shame. I think the fans are the ones that run a lot of what’s going on now.
AC: Can you tell me about how you came to write your book, and what you think of the final product?
TS: I think the final product was great. I had a big influence when I was an eighth grade student. A coach was very influential in my life and got me started in sports the following year. He tried to get me to go out for sports in my eight grade year, but coming from a Mexican family, who were migrants with very little money, I thought we had to buy our equipment. I didn’t even ask my mom if I could play. I just thought there was no way we could afford to buy the equipment for this. It was out of the question. So, I believe I could have gone the wrong way in life, but because of that coach who got me involved in sports, I believe everything that I’ve accomplished, he had a little bit to do with. So I started thinking, way before it got as big as it did, when I used to travel in a plane, I started making notes and keeping a diary. I just said, ‘Some day, there’s a chance that I might publish a book. And if I can help influence one person the way I was influenced…” I know the difference it made in my life. I could have gone the drugs route. We lived right on the border, and a lot of my friends did go into drugs, you know selling, and doing the heavy-duty drugs in South Texas. I was very blessed that I had Coach Sanchez, who guided me and was my big influence.
I talk about my life a little bit. I talk about my experience with promoters. I went through some hard times dealing with promoters. I talk about Ole Anderson, who is not very well liked by too many people in our business, who made life miserable for me. He tried to manipulate my life, and I stuck with it. I talk about my experiences on the road with the WWF, and friendships with other wrestlers. I just try to cover pretty much everything. I talk a little about drugs, and how some of my friends are not around anymore because they got to heavily involved with drugs. I just try to capture a little bit of life in our business.
