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Post by Ian from 616Entertainment. on Feb 18, 2009 16:44:04 GMT -5
Now, you can go back and look at things I said myself in the 94 thread. I stated things like, "A little bit of Vaseline didn't change anything. GSP was dominating." But after watching the video on BJ Penn's website, (below via CagePotato), I have definitely changed my mind. I thought that he might have been a little slick. After seeing the evidence, I am disgusted. BJ had so many opportunities to go for a triangle in which his legs simply slipped off of GSP's back. Not only that, but his corner coated his with the slip numerous times AFTER being warned. With St. Pierre pouring the water on himself and that shady dude having the tub even after they took it away, makes me think that maybe Team Jackson has this crap down to a science. Watch the video. www.cagepotato.com |
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Post by James Hetfield on Feb 18, 2009 17:16:11 GMT -5
BJ's guard was also prone to slipping due to the Vaseline.
It has been known that water makes Vaseline even more slippery. Also, the only real way to remove Vaseline from the body is with alcohol. A towel isn't going to do anything.
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Feb 18, 2009 17:19:53 GMT -5
I ain't watching the video because I know this vaseline stuff is a bunch of bullsh*t. I've watched and re-watched the fight and I still don't believe for a second that a little bit of vaseline changed anything in that fight.
Certainly not anything when they were both standing, that's for damn sure. Big deal Penn's feet slipped off GSP's back. It could've been from the sweat, since they were both sweaty at that point.
Anyone who actually believes this vaseline garbage is an idiot. It didn't change a damn thing in that fight and Penn got his ass kicked fair & square. Enough said.
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Post by James Hetfield on Feb 18, 2009 17:22:22 GMT -5
Once again, sweat can actually make the Vaseline more stronger than what it already is.
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Feb 18, 2009 17:29:57 GMT -5
I ain't watching the video because I know this vaseline stuff is a bunch of bullsh*t. I've watched and re-watched the fight and I still don't believe for a second that a little bit of vaseline changed anything in that fight. Certainly not anything when they were both standing, that's for damn sure. Big deal Penn's feet slipped off GSP's back. It could've been from the sweat, since they were both sweaty at that point. Anyone who actually believes this vaseline garbage is an idiot. It didn't change a damn thing in that fight and Penn got his ass kicked fair & square. Enough said. Your biased comments are becoming more and more obvious. I'm a HUGE GSP fan. He's my second favorite fighter behind Faber. I'm also a BJ Penn fan...but my god, you just refuse to even try to understand and go straight to the "IDIOTS!" comments. Do I think the Vaseline changed the outcome of the fight? No. Did St. Pierre get the better of him standing AND throw him around pretty easily? Yes. But to say it played NO part in the fight is pure ignorance. Penn has an INCREDIBLE guard, maybe the best in all of MMA. EVERY time he attempted to use his legs in order to get some sort of leverage, attempt to put them on the shoulders of St. Pierre to even attempt to push him down, or even attempt a triangle or arm bar...they slipped back down. As James Hetifled already said, if you add water to vaseline, it becomes even more slippery. You can't just wipe that off with a towel. It's really hard to ignore statements from several people that have faced GSP and said the same thing. Granted, I don't take Matt Hughes statements seriously (I think it's more due to the fact that I can't stand him, and that Hughes subbed GSP, if he was that slippery, you are't going to be able to do that...I think he just wants something new to complain about)...but Sherk, Miller, Penn...all basically saying the same thing? It's a bit curious. I don't think it changes the outcome, but I definitely think the vaseline played a role that made the fight THAT much harder for BJ Penn. |
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PdW2kX
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Post by PdW2kX on Feb 18, 2009 18:47:16 GMT -5
To be bluntly honest, I stopped caring about any of this crap weeks ago.
GSP is gonna fight again, Penn is going to fight again, and the any "GreaseGate" controversies will likely never happen again now that the UFC has instituted a rule that only "CutMen" can apply Vaseline.
GSP/Penn 2 is in the books, it's history. Penn got schooled. The grease just made it that much more of a schooling.
I'm still a big fan of GSP, I'm still a big fan of Penn. It's unlikely that everybody will end up agreeing with each other on whether or not the grease helped GSP.
So, like I said, I kinda stopped caring.
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Post by Codesters on Feb 18, 2009 18:57:07 GMT -5
Wow...When I originally watched the fight I didnt nearly notice Penn numerously going for a Traingle and slipping like that. It makes you think thats for sure.
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 18, 2009 19:24:28 GMT -5
I ain't watching the video because I know this vaseline stuff is a bunch of bullsh*t. LMFAO. And there goes your credibility. |
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Post by James Hetfield on Feb 18, 2009 19:38:00 GMT -5
He already had credibility?
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Feb 18, 2009 19:56:35 GMT -5
wow...
we're still talking about this?
I'm praying that Dana signs this fight one more time. I hope they have to wear a rash guard too. Because GSP has won twice...
but the first time "didn't count because it was so close and could've went either way"..
..and the second time "GSP dominated..but now after looking at the fight again the Vaselone definately played a part in him winning"..
it is like what the f*** does GSP have to do to convince BJ Penn that GSP is simply better..GSP can fight BJ in a f***ing Gi and I honestly believe the outcome would be the same as the first two times.
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Feb 18, 2009 20:00:14 GMT -5
I don't care what you guys say. Believe what you want to believe. And if you want to believe this lame vaseline excuse why Penn lost the fight, go right the  ahead. As PdW2kX said above, Penn got schooled. He got beat by the better fighter. All there is to it. But anyway, enough of this b.s. "grease" stuff, I seriously cannot wait until the 3rd fight. GSP is going to beat him even worse next time and I for one, cannot ing wait. Bet everything on GSP in that one. And I bet after that one, Penn will come up with yet ANOTHER excuse why he lost. You know he will. LOL. |
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Post by James Hetfield on Feb 18, 2009 20:00:26 GMT -5
wow... we're still talking about this? I'm praying that Dana signs this fight one more time. I hope they have to wear a rash guard too. Because GSP has won twice... but the first time "didn't count because it was so close and could've went either way".. ..and the second time "GSP dominated..but now after looking at the fight again the Vaselone definately played a part in him winning".. it is like what the f*** does GSP have to do to convince BJ Penn that GSP is simply better..GSP can fight BJ in a f***ing Gi and I honestly believe the outcome would be the same as the first two times. The first one was pretty even to me. Some even say BJ won the first fight. |
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Feb 18, 2009 20:11:30 GMT -5
^^^I don't see it that way though.
I mean if we are going off of looks alone then yes BJ won. Hell, he destroyed GSP in the first round and I believe even broke his nose and when the round was over GSP couldn't even find his corner. But the other two rounds (by UFC standards) were all GSP. He took him down continuously. Whether he did anything doesn't really matter according to the UFC because how many times have we seen the dominant wrestler just take down the guy who is the better striker and not do anything to advance his position once he does take his opponent down? Gray Maynard vs. Frankie Edgar comes to mind. It is how the UFC is and their rules for what wins a fight...
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Post by James Hetfield on Feb 18, 2009 20:12:42 GMT -5
I think it's the judges preference I guess. One judge at the Franklin/Henderson fight actually gave all 3 rounds to Franklin. I would give Rich the 3rd round, but in no way did he win all 3.
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Post by NYdream™ on Feb 18, 2009 21:03:49 GMT -5
I dont care about this crap really even though I wanted BJ to win. But Id love to see it again to get rid of all of this arguement.... I dont care if GSP does win I honestly dont but I dont like the whole contreversy behind it so I think a rematch is needed...
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 18, 2009 22:33:13 GMT -5
^^^I don't see it that way though. I mean if we are going off of looks alone then yes BJ won. Hell, he destroyed GSP in the first round and I believe even broke his nose and when the round was over GSP couldn't even find his corner. But the other two rounds (by UFC standards) were all GSP. He took him down continuously. Whether he did anything doesn't really matter according to the UFC because how many times have we seen the dominant wrestler just take down the guy who is the better striker and not do anything to advance his position once he does take his opponent down? Gray Maynard vs. Frankie Edgar comes to mind. It is how the UFC is and their rules for what wins a fight... That's just it... The rules weren't followed by the referee (I believe Big John?). That fight should have been stood up repeatedly. It also should have been reset in the middle of the cage numerous times when St. Pierre was just pushing Penn up against the cage for minutes at a time without taking him down. St. Pierre did almost NO damage. I love St. Pierre and Penn, but that first fight was trash because of the refereeing... And it WAS close, given that one of the referees actually gave the first fight to PEnn. |
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Bruiser Brody
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Post by Bruiser Brody on Feb 18, 2009 23:08:26 GMT -5
I am no expert and have not fought under these conditions so I am only giving an opinion here. I think the vaseline could have been a big issue in this fight. I also think this though, GSP is a huge welterweight. I don't think he has ever looked that big before. The best way for BJ to beat him was either standing or with his BJJ. If the vaseline was doing what has been described by some then there was a big advantage for GSP.
While GSP has improved his game since their first fight, I just find it hard to believe he has gotten that much better than BJ. Especially a BJ that is focused. I could be completely wrong. And I will be the first to admit that I am no fan of GSP and I love BJ Penn.
Just a couple of observations to throw my two cents in.
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Post by No Brokeback on Feb 19, 2009 1:56:34 GMT -5
You know who doesn't care about the vaselone?
The record books, and they state GSP-2...Penn -0
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Post by Kliquid on Feb 19, 2009 2:05:12 GMT -5
You know who doesn't care about the vaselone? The record books, and they state GSP-2...Penn -0 And the record books don't care about all the baseball players taking steroids, either -- but that doesn't mean it's fair. |
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Feb 19, 2009 2:12:43 GMT -5
and just like a Barry Bonds or Jose Canseco, GSP will have an asterisk next to his name..
..but the sh***y thing about GSP's asterisk is it isn't deserved at all. The guy dominated every fighter he has ever fought. But f*** it, it was all because of vaseline.
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