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Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Apr 28, 2009 2:01:55 GMT -5
I totally diagree on that. The way Jake excuted it was like no other. Once he drilled someone with the D.D.T., it was over. I don't see anyone these days that executes a D.D.T. quite like Jake did. If you ask me, the D.D.T. is certainly a whole hell of a lot more effective than an  ing F-U as a finisher. That's for damn sure. All the F-U is, is a fireman's carry into a bodyslam pretty much, more or less. Tell me how that's more effective than ramming someone's head into the ground?? Whatever. Doesn't matter. It's just stupid what it takes to beat someone these days. WAY too un-realistic and unbelievable. Too over-the-top for my liking. This is one of the statements I agree with more than any I have ever read on these forums. The DDT could still be a finisher if it was done right. Think about it, it is driving someone's head into the ground. Lights out. I remember from the Jake DVD, he said "People today, they miss the hold. They think it's a hop and fall thing". That was 2005 and it has only gotten worse since then. The Edgeacution is one of the worst DDT variations I have ever seen. Cody's looks pretty bad as well. The worst I think I have ever seen was Lita's. The epitome of the jump DDT. I also agree with the original post as well. A legdrop is a pretty good finish if you ask me. Jumping and landing on someone's head ass first sounds like a concussion to me. On the other hand, the aforementioned Edgecution (as much as I love Edge) is pretty much a full body flapjack. The FU...sorry, attitude adjustment is a fireman's carry...weak. The GTS is one of my least favorite. Talk about wasted motion. Nobody would ever get nailed with that. Why would you throw someone on your shoulders and then drop them on your knee. I have always said Regal's knee trembler is way better, quick, deadly, like the DDT. That is what a finisher should be. It is a spectacle, as it always has been, but now it's a bit too much. Top rope FU's, brutal chairshots, going through tables, onto the concrete. Many of those should have been 10 counts. It's only a matter of time before people kick out of Orton's punt. I wonder why  .. |
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Post by ben327 on Apr 28, 2009 2:07:19 GMT -5
wwe are causing themselves more trouble because kids wrestler and fight but instead of doing a ddt on a mate they will run em down and set him on fire thinking he will be fine
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Post by BoJack Hogan on Apr 28, 2009 5:40:58 GMT -5
Well the man in your sig has no sold tombstone piledrivers, ddts, vader bombs and etc and not fot nothing people still use the ddt as finisher What's your point? This conversation has nothing to do with "the man in my sig" as you so colloquially refer to him. I don't remember mentioning anything about people getting up after normal finishers, which everyone kicks out of now anyway. I was talking about concrete drops and top rope crazy versions of finishers and brutal chairshots. For the sake of argument, though, I don't remember him no selling any of those particular moves, unless you are mistaking the "man in my sig" for the Undertaker. He did no sell Vader's powerbomb, though, and that was bull$#!t. As far as the GTS goes, I hate it because it is a crap move that doesn't even look realistic, but the poor, put upon Punk fan of course has to take everything to heart as usual. If it makes you feel any better, nobody is getting hit with an FU or an Edgecution either. They are all crap finishers, which I mentioned in the first post. |
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Post by dxfan13 on Apr 28, 2009 5:44:21 GMT -5
The fact that the DDT was ever a finisher is a joke. I totally diagree on that. The way Jake excuted it was like no other. Once he drilled someone with the D.D.T., it was over. I don't see anyone these days that executes a D.D.T. quite like Jake did. If you ask me, the D.D.T. is certainly a whole hell of a lot more effective than an ing F-U as a finisher. That's for damn sure. All the F-U is, is a fireman's carry into a bodyslam pretty much, more or less. Tell me how that's more effective than ramming someone's head into the ground?? Whatever. Doesn't matter. It's just stupid what it takes to beat someone these days. WAY too un-realistic and unbelievable. Too over-the-top for my liking. is this a stealth-bash Cena thread? |
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Kick Your Face
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Post by Kick Your Face on Apr 28, 2009 6:41:35 GMT -5
Well the man in your sig has no sold tombstone piledrivers, ddts, vader bombs and etc and not fot nothing people still use the ddt as finisher What's your point? This conversation has nothing to do with "the man in my sig" as you so colloquially refer to him. I don't remember mentioning anything about people getting up after normal finishers, which everyone kicks out of now anyway. I was talking about concrete drops and top rope crazy versions of finishers and brutal chairshots. For the sake of argument, though, I don't remember him no selling any of those particular moves, unless you are mistaking the "man in my sig" for the Undertaker. He did no sell Vader's powerbomb, though, and that was bull$#!t. As far as the GTS goes, I hate it because it is a crap move that doesn't even look realistic, but the poor, put upon Punk fan of course has to take everything to heart as usual. If it makes you feel any better, nobody is getting hit with an FU or an Edgecution either. They are all crap finishers, which I mentioned in the first post. CM Punk didn't even invent the Go 2 Sleep. KENTA did in 2004. |
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Post by MichaelTheMartian on Apr 28, 2009 6:49:34 GMT -5
Cena getting up from a conchairto did annoy me I agree, how many times have we seen wrestler have a "consussion" or out of action for a few weeks after a con-chair-to, it's quite stupid to have Cena get up after a simpl 10 count |
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Too Sweet
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Post by Too Sweet on Apr 28, 2009 7:03:28 GMT -5
I agree, moves become less and less effective over time, even now Wrestling moves that were brutal 20 years back have become the norm, even though now alot of the Wrestlers are leaner than what they were 20 years ago. Moves have lost its value and awe factor, instead of slowly dragging along with it and slowly brining in new things, once the 90's hit we started seeing the rise of Luchadoore wrestling, Hardcore Wrestling and Technical wrestling was rising up the ranks, ontop of the crazy spots everyone was starting to do it got to the point where it got bland and generic. The problem now is that its getting to the point now where Wrestlers are having to do these crazy things like what happened to Cena at Backlash to keep it a bit fresh, but even now that spot will probably get out done within a few weeks/months.
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Post by Next Man’s Yeeter on Apr 28, 2009 10:37:39 GMT -5
You know why wrestlers got beat by DDTs twenty years ago? Because they only had a real match about five times a ing year. The rest of the time they were just killing jobbers, so they had no ability to absorb punishment. And yes, I know there were house shows, but I'm talking as far as the TV characters went. Today, wrestlers have competitive matches on every show, and a PPV every few weeks, so they're used to being hit with more stuff. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2009 10:42:24 GMT -5
Well the man in your sig has no sold tombstone piledrivers, ddts, vader bombs and etc and not fot nothing people still use the ddt as finisher What's your point? This conversation has nothing to do with "the man in my sig" as you so colloquially refer to him. I don't remember mentioning anything about people getting up after normal finishers, which everyone kicks out of now anyway. I was talking about concrete drops and top rope crazy versions of finishers and brutal chairshots. For the sake of argument, though, I don't remember him no selling any of those particular moves, unless you are mistaking the "man in my sig" for the Undertaker. He did no sell Vader's powerbomb, though, and that was bull$#!t. As far as the GTS goes, I hate it because it is a crap move that doesn't even look realistic, but the poor, put upon Punk fan of course has to take everything to heart as usual. If it makes you feel any better, nobody is getting hit with an FU or an Edgecution either. They are all crap finishers, which I mentioned in the first post. well I wasn't so much referring to what you were talking about, but more about what Mr. Old school had said I apologize for the confusion |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2009 10:44:37 GMT -5
You were right about the part where Cena comes out like nothing happened. They could have atleast put some bandages on him or something to sell explosion. Its ridiculous and it really exposes the wrestling business as fake. did you see him come out last night? He made it look like he just got out of a car accident and was even limping |
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s☠e
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Post by s☠e on Apr 28, 2009 11:06:45 GMT -5
The fact that the DDT was ever a finisher is a joke. I totally diagree on that. The way Jake excuted it was like no other. Once he drilled someone with the D.D.T., it was over. I don't see anyone these days that executes a D.D.T. quite like Jake did. If you ask me, the D.D.T. is certainly a whole hell of a lot more effective than an ing F-U as a finisher. That's for damn sure. All the F-U is, is a fireman's carry into a bodyslam pretty much, more or less. Tell me how that's more effective than ramming someone's head into the ground?? Whatever. Doesn't matter. It's just stupid what it takes to beat someone these days. WAY too un-realistic and unbelievable. Too over-the-top for my liking. I agree with you on some levels. Some things are just ridiculous. I am curious to know, after this post, what you think of things like the Japanese style of wrestling, more specifically, Pro Wrestling NOAH? I agree with you that some things should "finish" people. But then again...there are times I could contradict myself. For instance (putting WWE aside for the minute), I was at ROH's two shows this April in Houston. If a DDT, or powerful superkick, big slam, top rope splash etc was a 'match ender'...then the match would have been ALOT less entertaining. And tbh? Alot less unrealistic. If someone kicked you in the face, would that put you down for a count of 3? I don't think so. If someone spalshed you from the top rope, down for 3? Again, you'd be "UGHHHH!" but you'd still find the energy to get a shoulder up. If you were superkicked, slamed, kicked in the face, flying knee'd, kicked, kicked, slammed etc. THEN would it keep you down for a 3? Probably. So in this respect, I think it's more entertaining/realistic when it takes DDT, upon kick, upon slam to put someone down. To back up this point... ***SPOILER ALERT FOR ROH TAKE NO PRISONERS*** (vids are only short) An example of guys kicking each other over and over to try and put each other down (off topic, this was amazing. Went from sitting crowd, to standing ovation, and then just as the vid cuts off, crazy chants off "ROH! ROH!"): And then the ending sequence: So, what I'm trying to say is that it's more believable to have guys consistently beating each other up for a couple of minutes to finish each other...than a single slam or something. In WWE? Because WWE is structured differently to those promotions...no, I don't think ^ that's necessesary. Nor are UNBELIEVABLE spots, all the time. On occasion, yeh. So long as it means a guy is OUT. Like you said. But not all the time. And, although I think WWE's matches could afford to be more fast-paced to keep interest for the casual fan, and provide a better viewing experience, I agree with you that things like a STIFF DDT, should end a match. One last thing, going back to my original question about NOAH, do you think this is too unrealistic (because of the amount of 'match enders' in it), or the opposite...like me...that it is more realistic (bar the obviously unrealistic top rope moves etc. I'm meaning in the sense that it takes this much to put a guy down, in real life)? (this vid is a little longer. It's a music video to the highlights of one of my favourite matches) |
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Post by mcmgforever on Apr 28, 2009 11:15:49 GMT -5
I only watch TNA because its fast and risky and stiff (see AJ's senton), and only wwe if its fast paced or huge believable spots.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2009 11:39:27 GMT -5
It's not 1989, it's 2009. If you don't like the product, don't watch it for crying out loud.
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Post by Adam on Apr 28, 2009 12:21:08 GMT -5
I also question Mr. Old School's motives for citing John Cena as examples...and not The Undertaker needing to be buried alive/lightning strike...or have a coffin he's in being set on fire to put him away.
It's not as if the booking of Cena is anything new, he just wanted another thread to bash Cena in.
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missedgehead
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Post by missedgehead on Apr 28, 2009 14:43:58 GMT -5
Well, I do feel that wrestling is just evolving into more of an entertainment entity to go with the times. I do feel it was a bit ridiculous that Cena stood up after the conchairto. I also felt it was ridiculous for HHH to kick out of the RKO. That RKO should have been the end of the match and THEN Randy punts him.
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Post by WalterF on Apr 28, 2009 15:03:15 GMT -5
Wrestling will always be changing, as other forms of entertainment and really everything.
That being said, there are a few things I think are going wrong with today's product.
For one, the WRESTLING on television is dumbed down and the matches are far shorter. On 24/7 I'm watching the RAW's from 1995 and they were mostly match-based and those matches were long and well put together. Today most matches on RAW are about 2-3 minutes.
Another thing I dislike, that seems to be something WWE has upped particularly as of late, is the reshowing of video packages again and again and again. Now, when a wrestler comes out to cut a promo not only does he cut a promo, but he almost always points the attention to the Titantron, which proceeds to show a 3-5 minute video replay. I understand showing short clips at the beginning of a show, but last night on RAW, Orton cut a promo showing a video and then Vickie cut a promo showing pretty much the same video package and not a 30 second clip, but a long drawn out video package each time that we have seen almost every week since February.
These are the things that really both me. I understand that wrestling has evolved into more of an entertainment property, but I'll never like it. I remember when RAW was an hour or two of almost ALL wrestling or, at least, mostly wrestling. Now it's like it's a 2 hour show of video packages and promos, with some half-assed 2 minute long matches sprinkled in just so it can be passed off as a wrestling show still. I truly feel for the younger talent because it's harder to get over now since you have such a limited amount of time on TV matches to show what you've got. And ontop of it, the list of moves currently banned has really dumbed down the actual wrestling we do see.
The talent is there and it shines through at PPV's when we do see some excellent matches, but the lack of wrestling on TV programs does bother me. I'm not someone to always bash the product because I do love WWE and there are plenty of reasons I watch, but sometimes I go back and watch and old RAW and watch the matches and hope that it could be that way again.
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s☠e
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Post by s☠e on Apr 28, 2009 15:21:00 GMT -5
^ very well said! I completely agree!
Something I will add to that list though, is the commentating. There's now NO 'calling the match'. It's CONSTANTLY Michael Cole reminding us of the dam nstoryline, shaping it for us, and then repeating it over and over.
Any formn of arm submission = armbar.
Drop your opponent to the mat in some form = slam.
etc.
It's awful. Up there with the things that bug me most about WWE.
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Post by Next Man’s Yeeter on Apr 28, 2009 15:33:27 GMT -5
I understand that wrestling has evolved into more of an entertainment property, but I'll never like it. It's always been an entertainment property, so you must never have liked it. |
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Post by BoJack Hogan on Apr 28, 2009 15:43:24 GMT -5
What's your point? This conversation has nothing to do with "the man in my sig" as you so colloquially refer to him. I don't remember mentioning anything about people getting up after normal finishers, which everyone kicks out of now anyway. I was talking about concrete drops and top rope crazy versions of finishers and brutal chairshots. For the sake of argument, though, I don't remember him no selling any of those particular moves, unless you are mistaking the "man in my sig" for the Undertaker. He did no sell Vader's powerbomb, though, and that was bull$#!t. As far as the GTS goes, I hate it because it is a crap move that doesn't even look realistic, but the poor, put upon Punk fan of course has to take everything to heart as usual. If it makes you feel any better, nobody is getting hit with an FU or an Edgecution either. They are all crap finishers, which I mentioned in the first post. CM Punk didn't even invent the Go 2 Sleep. KENTA did in 2004. Of this I am aware, which is why the Punk fan "wondering why" I hated the GTS and knowing of my hatred for Punk assumed that I was referring to it being Punk's move and that being the reason I hated it. It's still a crap finisher in my opinion no matter who invented it. The integrity of my initial post was somehow lost as I was mostly agreeing that the DDT made an excellent finisher whereas some of today's more spectacular finishers look weak in comparison. In all actuality, I was speaking only of finishers and spectacular "mega damage moves" which years ago should have been easy 10 counts. Sometimes keeping it simple is the best thing you can do. I don't recall ever saying that I didn't like the product. The product as a whole, at this time, I feel is the best it has been since 2002 and obviously times change. I actually loved the Cena/Edge match. |
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missedgehead
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Post by missedgehead on Apr 28, 2009 15:51:45 GMT -5
Wrestling will always be changing, as other forms of entertainment and really everything. That being said, there are a few things I think are going wrong with today's product. For one, the WRESTLING on television is dumbed down and the matches are far shorter. On 24/7 I'm watching the RAW's from 1995 and they were mostly match-based and those matches were long and well put together. Today most matches on RAW are about 2-3 minutes. Another thing I dislike, that seems to be something WWE has upped particularly as of late, is the reshowing of video packages again and again and again. Now, when a wrestler comes out to cut a promo not only does he cut a promo, but he almost always points the attention to the Titantron, which proceeds to show a 3-5 minute video replay. I understand showing short clips at the beginning of a show, but last night on RAW, Orton cut a promo showing a video and then Vickie cut a promo showing pretty much the same video package and not a 30 second clip, but a long drawn out video package each time that we have seen almost every week since February. These are the things that really both me. I understand that wrestling has evolved into more of an entertainment property, but I'll never like it. I remember when RAW was an hour or two of almost ALL wrestling or, at least, mostly wrestling. Now it's like it's a 2 hour show of video packages and promos, with some half-assed 2 minute long matches sprinkled in just so it can be passed off as a wrestling show still. I truly feel for the younger talent because it's harder to get over now since you have such a limited amount of time on TV matches to show what you've got. And ontop of it, the list of moves currently banned has really dumbed down the actual wrestling we do see. The talent is there and it shines through at PPV's when we do see some excellent matches, but the lack of wrestling on TV programs does bother me. I'm not someone to always bash the product because I do love WWE and there are plenty of reasons I watch, but sometimes I go back and watch and old RAW and watch the matches and hope that it could be that way again. This. |
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