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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Nov 2, 2014 17:55:29 GMT -5
So I was discussing this with a mate and it got me thinking. We were both Rock fans as kids, and so was everyone we knew. Despite this, Austin was just a touch more over for the most part (there are days when I'm not 100% sure about that but that isn't the discussion I want to have today) with the fans at large. So why was Austin so over when no one we knew loved him? Why did we all think 'yeah he's fairly cool, but I prefer Rock/Jericho/Undertaker'? I mean yeah, he was cool, and he was always cheered massively, but he never captured the imaginations of myself or my friends in the same way others did and have since. So I begun to wonder... is it because we're not American?
Austin's character, ideals and actions were all very... American. Yeah drinking beer is pretty universal, and most people go through stages of wanting to stick it to their boss, but Austin was so specifically catered to an American audience that it may have turned us off subliminally. The 'redneck' stuff obviously relates to huge swathes of the US population, and often specifically the fans that like wrestling, but it doesn't have any holding over here or anywhere outside the US really. By comparison, Rock's character which was mostly based around humour was far more universal. Everyone can relate to a joke if its funny enough. Austin obviously had his non-US fans (such as Joker) but I just wonder if we did a poll of non-American fans from that time who might be more popular.
This is related to Rock's later popularity as well. Movies are much more universal than the WWE, which has always known that its bread is buttered in the USA. Perhaps that's why he has had much more success after retiring - his character and personality have a much broader appeal. Austin is very popular in certain demographics, but I wonder if he isn't a bit one note to match the popularity of other guys in the entertainment industry.
Thoughts? Austin is my example, but I'm sure there are others. I'm not counting guys who were cheered in non-US territories because they came from there (such as British Bulldog and Bret Hart), but rather guys who appealed in different markets to different levels because of their character or style. I'm prepared for a huge backlash here
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 2, 2014 18:41:07 GMT -5
Steve Austin was pretty popular here in Canada too during that time frame. Even during the whole Hart Foundation feud in 1997. You would see people cheering the Hart Foundation while wearing Austin 3:16 shirts, and trying to boo Steve, yet everyone here loved him.
But it kind of goes both ways. For you UK fans, I know the USA and Canada LOVED the British Bulldog(s) whether it was tag action or a singles run. Yet, Wade Barrett couldn't get over, and just started to do so as Bad News Barrett, but he would still never be as over as Davey Boy or the Bulldogs were in their hey-day.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Nov 2, 2014 19:32:07 GMT -5
Steve Austin was pretty popular here in Canada too during that time frame. Even during the whole Hart Foundation feud in 1997. You would see people cheering the Hart Foundation while wearing Austin 3:16 shirts, and trying to boo Steve, yet everyone here loved him. But it kind of goes both ways. For you UK fans, I know the USA and Canada LOVED the British Bulldog(s) whether it was tag action or a singles run. Yet, Wade Barrett couldn't get over, and just started to do so as Bad News Barrett, but he would still never be as over as Davey Boy or the Bulldogs were in their hey-day. I think Canada is a unique case. Apart from backing guys that are Canadian and booing those facing them, in terms of wrestling I don't really see that much difference in taste or style to the USA, so I hesitate to include them. Its really 'North America (maybe minus Mexico)' rather than just the USA. Sorry to be another foreigner that acts like all Canadians are just Americans, but in this case I think the similarities are there for sure. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Nov 2, 2014 19:36:57 GMT -5
Steve Austin was pretty popular here in Canada too during that time frame. Even during the whole Hart Foundation feud in 1997. You would see people cheering the Hart Foundation while wearing Austin 3:16 shirts, and trying to boo Steve, yet everyone here loved him. But it kind of goes both ways. For you UK fans, I know the USA and Canada LOVED the British Bulldog(s) whether it was tag action or a singles run. Yet, Wade Barrett couldn't get over, and just started to do so as Bad News Barrett, but he would still never be as over as Davey Boy or the Bulldogs were in their hey-day. I think Canada is a unique case. Apart from backing guys that are Canadian and booing those facing them, in terms of wrestling I don't really see that much difference in taste or style to the USA, so I hesitate to include them. Its really 'North America (maybe minus Mexico)' rather than just the USA. Sorry to be another foreigner that acts like all Canadians are just Americans, but in this case I think the similarities are there for sure. Canada is MUCH different from the USA. See, in Canada we still take care of the sick & the old; we still have health care. We have gun control, we don't shoot each other and kill each other on every street corner. Canada isn't riddled with racial prejudice and hatred. Across Canda we all care for each other and love each other. |
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Post by Andrewghbk99 on Nov 2, 2014 20:00:41 GMT -5
I think Canada is a unique case. Apart from backing guys that are Canadian and booing those facing them, in terms of wrestling I don't really see that much difference in taste or style to the USA, so I hesitate to include them. Its really 'North America (maybe minus Mexico)' rather than just the USA. Sorry to be another foreigner that acts like all Canadians are just Americans, but in this case I think the similarities are there for sure. Canada is MUCH different from the USA. See, in Canada we still take care of the sick & the old; we still have health care. We have gun control, we don't shoot each other and kill each other on every street corner. Canada isn't riddled with racial prejudice and hatred. Across Canda we all care for each other and love each other. Bret is that you!?! |
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Nov 2, 2014 20:08:47 GMT -5
I think Canada is a unique case. Apart from backing guys that are Canadian and booing those facing them, in terms of wrestling I don't really see that much difference in taste or style to the USA, so I hesitate to include them. Its really 'North America (maybe minus Mexico)' rather than just the USA. Sorry to be another foreigner that acts like all Canadians are just Americans, but in this case I think the similarities are there for sure. Canada is MUCH different from the USA. See, in Canada we still take care of the sick & the old; we still have health care. We have gun control, we don't shoot each other and kill each other on every street corner. Canada isn't riddled with racial prejudice and hatred. Across Canda we all care for each other and love each other. Oh yeah I completely agree. I just think you have similar tastes in wrestlers is all. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2014 20:10:03 GMT -5
I think Canada is a unique case. Apart from backing guys that are Canadian and booing those facing them, in terms of wrestling I don't really see that much difference in taste or style to the USA, so I hesitate to include them. Its really 'North America (maybe minus Mexico)' rather than just the USA. Sorry to be another foreigner that acts like all Canadians are just Americans, but in this case I think the similarities are there for sure. Canada is MUCH different from the USA. See, in Canada we still take care of the sick & the old; we still have health care. We have gun control, we don't shoot each other and kill each other on every street corner. Canada isn't riddled with racial prejudice and hatred. Across Canda we all care for each other and love each other. I'm sorry, I can't hear you over my FREEDOM. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 0:08:48 GMT -5
I think Canada is a unique case. Apart from backing guys that are Canadian and booing those facing them, in terms of wrestling I don't really see that much difference in taste or style to the USA, so I hesitate to include them. Its really 'North America (maybe minus Mexico)' rather than just the USA. Sorry to be another foreigner that acts like all Canadians are just Americans, but in this case I think the similarities are there for sure. Canada is MUCH different from the USA. See, in Canada we still take care of the sick & the old; we still have health care. We have gun control, we don't shoot each other and kill each other on every street corner. Canada isn't riddled with racial prejudice and hatred. Across Canda we all care for each other and love each other. So good. Legit made me lol. |
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Post by k5 on Nov 3, 2014 1:31:10 GMT -5
andre in japan is an easy pick. while he was certainly over wherever he went for his sheer size, in a place like japan he was just larger than life and they loved him for it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 5:43:56 GMT -5
So I was discussing this with a mate and it got me thinking. We were both Rock fans as kids, and so was everyone we knew. Despite this, Austin was just a touch more over for the most part (there are days when I'm not 100% sure about that but that isn't the discussion I want to have today) with the fans at large. So why was Austin so over when no one we knew loved him? Why did we all think 'yeah he's fairly cool, but I prefer Rock/Jericho/Undertaker'? I mean yeah, he was cool, and he was always cheered massively, but he never captured the imaginations of myself or my friends in the same way others did and have since. So I begun to wonder... is it because we're not American? Austin's character, ideals and actions were all very... American. Yeah drinking beer is pretty universal, and most people go through stages of wanting to stick it to their boss, but Austin was so specifically catered to an American audience that it may have turned us off subliminally. The 'redneck' stuff obviously relates to huge swathes of the US population, and often specifically the fans that like wrestling, but it doesn't have any holding over here or anywhere outside the US really. By comparison, Rock's character which was mostly based around humour was far more universal. Everyone can relate to a joke if its funny enough. Austin obviously had his non-US fans (such as Joker) but I just wonder if we did a poll of non-American fans from that time who might be more popular. This is related to Rock's later popularity as well. Movies are much more universal than the WWE, which has always known that its bread is buttered in the USA. Perhaps that's why he has had much more success after retiring - his character and personality have a much broader appeal. Austin is very popular in certain demographics, but I wonder if he isn't a bit one note to match the popularity of other guys in the entertainment industry. Thoughts? Austin is my example, but I'm sure there are others. I'm not counting guys who were cheered in non-US territories because they came from there (such as British Bulldog and Bret Hart), but rather guys who appealed in different markets to different levels because of their character or style. I'm prepared for a huge backlash hereGREAT topic Mike. And interesting as hell to boot. Obviously I'm an Austin mark....everybody in Ireland was. Nobody I knew preferred the Rock and we waited with baited breath for Austin's return(baited f*cking breath)....... Yes the Rock was hugely popular but not Austin popular. I used to see way more DX shirts even into the early 00's than Rock ones. |
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snickelodeon
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Post by snickelodeon on Nov 3, 2014 8:31:12 GMT -5
From the UK also but me and my pals were all 100% behind Austin until about 2000 then Austin got injured and Rock/HHH then took things to a new level there after but before that Austin was the man even while he was still a heel....
Christian and Booker T are two more that are more over in the UK than they are in US I believe, well they were.
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Post by punksnotdead on Nov 3, 2014 8:50:25 GMT -5
It wasn't even close around me growing up. Austin was way more over than the Rock. People got behind Rock when Austin was gone but when Austin came back he was back to being the guy.
I honestly don't think the idea of DX being more over than the Rock is that far fetched either, especially if we're talking sales over time. I had 2 Rock shirts during the AE and 6-7 DX shirts. I guess to be fair the Rock was heel for the majority of that time but I had 2 HBK & HHH era DX shirts so that kind of thing wasn't necessarily relevant.
I think the reason a talent can be area specific is the same way a culture can be area specific. Different people, from different places, are drawn to different types of things. The Rock always had that movie star appeal, even before he was a movie star, and Austin was a working man's man. So I think based on personality and what a culture finds appealing is easy to parallel to a character or gimmick. Frat boys, rednecks, the star athlete, we all relate to something on one level or another.
Outside of that it's just what we relate to I think. Bret is from Canada, I'm from Canada, I like Bret. Bret wears pink, that's different, I like Bret. Austin is bald, I'm bald, I like Austin. Austin hates his boss, I hate my boss, I like Austin. Rock likes pie, I love pie, I like Rock. I mean it can go on-and-on as to why we relate to them but I don't think it's any big secret why we connect or why we relate. The only guy I never really understood when it came to that kind of thing was Hogan.
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Tyler Black
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Post by Tyler Black on Nov 3, 2014 10:16:17 GMT -5
Well Austin/Rock varied even in US markets. For example, being Hispanic males in New York City, me and my brother were always Rock guys never Austin guys. In fact true story, my older brothers favorite wrestler growing up was HBK he was always the pretty boy growing up so him and Shawn connected. Anyway when Austin beat Shawn at mania, my 9 year old at the time brother legitimately cried lol. We just couldn't connect with Austin's beer drinking red neck  my boss persona. But the rocks smoothing talking joke cracking pie loving character? We had a ton of friends like that and we treid to be the rock. Basement wrestling matches were constant fights over who was rock/HBK/triple h. I think where you grew up had a lot to do with who you got behind |
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Post by Nivro™ on Nov 3, 2014 20:42:21 GMT -5
Nobody was as over as Hacksaw Jim Duggan. Duggan could go to countries outside of the US and get the fans to chant USA! USA! USA!.....That's over!
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Nov 5, 2014 15:37:58 GMT -5
I always loved Rock more than Austin. I only liked Austin because I was a kid and that was what we were 'supposed' to think. The Rock was cool and I liked his look/moveset and had great talking abilities. I was only able to watch WWF through Heat on sundays, and that was late '99 onwards, when Austin was out of the loop for a while, so I didn't see all the cool stuff he did up till his injury. My only exposure to him was the Warzone/Attitude and Smackdown games, and the BCA/TTL figures. No promos, nothing. He looked cool and badass, but not my favorite.
Like Mike my favorite was easily Undertaker - he just looked COOL. Closely followed by Rock, then Jericho and the Hardys a little later.
Good times.
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Post by sitruC on Nov 5, 2014 19:54:31 GMT -5
I always liked The Rock more but all my friends liked Austin sadly.
It might've been because I was young so the whole everyone wants to beat up their boss and get drunk angle never really applied to me as it would've to people 16+.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 9:03:54 GMT -5
I always liked The Rock more but all my friends liked Austin sadly. It might've been because I was young so the whole everyone wants to beat up their boss and get drunk angle never really applied to me as it would've to people 16+. A very astute point man. Rock may have appealed to a younger group than Austin. A great point that I have never see brought up on here before. as a 17 year old in 1997 working in a sh*tty job I LOVED Austin's whole attitude. I wanted to stunner my boss Roy every morning from May 1997 through April 1998 when I quit. However I felt that might incur some sh8t with the law.....so I nailed his tasty daughter instead  |
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Nov 6, 2014 9:55:12 GMT -5
I always liked The Rock more but all my friends liked Austin sadly. It might've been because I was young so the whole everyone wants to beat up their boss and get drunk angle never really applied to me as it would've to people 16+. A very astute point man. Rock may have appealed to a younger group than Austin. A great point that I have never see brought up on here before. as a 17 year old in 1997 working in a sh*tty job I LOVED Austin's whole attitude. I wanted to stunner my boss Roy every morning from May 1997 through April 1998 when I quit. However I felt that might incur some sh8t with the law..... so I nailed his tasty daughter instead No pics no proof |
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Nov 6, 2014 10:58:16 GMT -5
Lol Joker you .... joker :/
Yeah same for me, I was like 8-9 when Austin was at his best. I still don't like beer.
But I appreciate him more in retrospect, and would LOVE to go through all Raws and Smackdowns from '97 (& '99) till 2002. I would probably enjoy him as a character more.
Also, I forgot to say earlier I knew him from being the leader of the Alliance, and hated it. Something just didn't feel right and disliked Austin then, but now I realise it was the storyline not the character he was portraying as leader.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 10:58:41 GMT -5
A very astute point man. Rock may have appealed to a younger group than Austin. A great point that I have never see brought up on here before. as a 17 year old in 1997 working in a sh*tty job I LOVED Austin's whole attitude. I wanted to stunner my boss Roy every morning from May 1997 through April 1998 when I quit. However I felt that might incur some sh8t with the law..... so I nailed his tasty daughter instead No pics no proof my word is my bond.....ya manc b*stard!!  ? |
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