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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 9:54:21 GMT -5
Cesaro is one of the best wrestlers in the company. But apparently there's never been "bland" guys who were awesome wrestlers make it to the top of the card. There was Bret Hart, arguably -- and he had at least ten to fifteen million times more charisma than Cesaro. Apart from that, nope. Even the ones who weren't great talkers had tons of presence and in-ring charisma. Cesaro has none of that. Any time an Internet darling doesn't get handed all the belts and permanent main event status, there'll be people on the internet crying that WWE is misusing them. If Cesaro was in Seth Rollins' spot now, people would be complaining that WWE is burying Rollins. Not everybody gets to be a top guy, especially when they don't have "it." Bret Hart and Chris Benoit are two guys that were great wrestlers but I thought they were boring. Vanilla. Nothing against them. I enjoyed their matches. I watch wrestling for wrestling mostly. Not who can make fun of someone else better. Not who can tell better jokes. I have never really given a crap about promos. I loved wrestling most as a kid when I had basically no ing clue what they were talking about. And Cesaro may be an internet darling. Well I'm not asking for all the belts to be put on him so I don't really appreciate the stereotype. I've never been an internet darling fan. I don't really like Daniel Bryan and I only liked CM Sucks for two years. Those are the only three that I even know of really besides Ambrose and I don't think anyone's questioning his skills or ability. With Cesaro I'm only looking for him to be booked better than losing every match he's in from people up and down the card.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 6, 2014 9:58:33 GMT -5
Read it again. See what I bolded? I never said he wasn't. Leading into WrestleMania he competed in the Elimination Chamber and people popped for him because they wanted to see the Swing. At WrestleMania he turned and the crowd that night and the night after was red hot because of the kind of crowd that it was. I personally love Cesaro and have since 2006. I do also 100% agree that turning him heel and pairing him with Heyman stopped his momentum completely but I don't think that he has the charismatic goods to keep a sustained run at the top. If you think that Cesaro, in his current state, can be a top guy, then you are foolish. So you admitted he was over and had a crowd connection? Okay then. It's all how he's creatively booked. Look at Daniel Bryan in 2011. Booked like a loser. Lost l his matches. Cashed in his MiTB and all he did was pin a guy. That was foolish. It's all about the creative and how they book you. As seen earlier this year with Cesaro. Yes, for the third time I am admitting that a MOVE was over heading into WrestleMania and that he was over the indy fan heavy WrestleMania and post WrestleMania crowd. I thought that Daniel Bryan showed charisma and potential in 2010, won MITB in 2011, lost a bunch and was headed down the Jack Swagger path. Guy who had charisma but was booked terribly. HOWEVER, Bryan won the title and became must see TV with his heel character as Champion. If Cesaro can pull a fraction of what Bryan has shown out of his ass, then he has a chance. Until then, nope.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 10:03:46 GMT -5
So you admitted he was over and had a crowd connection? Okay then. It's all how he's creatively booked. Look at Daniel Bryan in 2011. Booked like a loser. Lost l his matches. Cashed in his MiTB and all he did was pin a guy. That was foolish. It's all about the creative and how they book you. As seen earlier this year with Cesaro. Yes, for the third time I am admitting that a MOVE was over heading into WrestleMania and that he was over the indy fan heavy WrestleMania and post WrestleMania crowd. I thought that Daniel Bryan showed charisma and potential in 2010, won MITB in 2011, lost a bunch and was headed down the Jack Swagger path. Guy who had charisma but was booked terribly. HOWEVER, Bryan won the title and became must see TV with his heel character as Champion. If Cesaro can pull a fraction of what Bryan has shown out of his ass, then he has a chance. Until then, nope. I just think you like quoting me trying to prove me wrong or over argue your point because you're butthurt because I always make fun of your baby boy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 10:13:16 GMT -5
Well nobody as bland as Cesaro except for giant guys like the Great Khali. And could imagine the outcry if Cesaro got a Khali like title reign? I mean, Daniel Bryan, Chris Benoit, Dolph Ziggler, etc. all had more charisma and connected with the crowd better than Cesaro has. Hell, even Jack Swagger showed more charisma before his title run. I don't think he's just a "decent hand". He's a damn good one who never falls to impress in the ring. Like, a less charismatic Dolph Ziggler. Regardless, this is like one of the board's biggest splits right now. Some people think Cesaro is a main event player because he can out work 90% of the roster and was over around WrestleMania time, and some people think that he has no charisma and won't be a main event player. But when it comes to the "it" factor, I do agree that it's not something that can be taught or something that someone can learn. I 100% disagree. If you don't think Cesaro was connecting with the crowds before, at, and shortly after WrestleMania then you are foolish. Just so ya know.......when somebody doesn't agree with your POV? It doesn't make them foolish. It illustrates they have a different opinion.... Just so ya know.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 6, 2014 10:13:51 GMT -5
Yes, for the third time I am admitting that a MOVE was over heading into WrestleMania and that he was over the indy fan heavy WrestleMania and post WrestleMania crowd. I thought that Daniel Bryan showed charisma and potential in 2010, won MITB in 2011, lost a bunch and was headed down the Jack Swagger path. Guy who had charisma but was booked terribly. HOWEVER, Bryan won the title and became must see TV with his heel character as Champion. If Cesaro can pull a fraction of what Bryan has shown out of his ass, then he has a chance. Until then, nope. I just think you like quoting me trying to prove me wrong or over argue your point because you're butthurt because I always make fun of your baby boy. Ahh, there's a logical response. I assume you're talking about CM Punk since you enjoy going into every thread and bashing him. Yes, I quote you (and everyone else that I quote) because you say negative things about a guy who is my FIFTH favorite wrestler. I don't believe we've even had much discussion about him since that first time we argued.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 10:15:59 GMT -5
I 100% disagree. If you don't think Cesaro was connecting with the crowds before, at, and shortly after WrestleMania then you are foolish. Just so ya know.......when somebody doesn't agree with your POV? It doesn't make them foolish. It illustrates they have a different opinion.... Just so ya know. I know that bud. But it's pretty much universally agreed that he was over during that time. So.... Just so ya know.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 6, 2014 10:16:29 GMT -5
Lol. Anyone who thinks the WrestleMania and post-WrestleMania crowd reactions mean someone's over at main event level shouldn't even be worrying about Cesaro, they should still be marching outside WWE HQ with signs demanding Fandango's world title reign.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 10:17:22 GMT -5
Just so ya know.......when somebody doesn't agree with your POV? It doesn't make them foolish. It illustrates they have a different opinion.... Just so ya know. I know that bud. But it's pretty much universally agreed that he was over during that time. So.... Just so ya know. Clever but don't get into the name calling game here. that's all I'm saying to you.
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Post by Joey Cush on Dec 6, 2014 10:18:09 GMT -5
I think it's bullcrap. Cesaro has "it".
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 6, 2014 10:21:21 GMT -5
Bret Hart and Chris Benoit are two guys that were great wrestlers but I thought they were boring. Vanilla. Nothing against them. I enjoyed their matches. I watch wrestling for wrestling mostly. Once again -- not all top wrestlers can talk. But the ones who can't talk and make it to the top do so because their in-ring charisma is impeccable. They totally pull off their character and get people invested, and Hart and Benoit had that in spades. Cesaro doesn't know how to do that, unless he's doing something like swinging a giant around by their legs. He's just a guy with a couple of flashy moves. No personality at all, and that doesn't just mean promos, that's how he comes across in the ring as well. Total midcard. Unless he gets better, he's only ever going to be a midcarder/tag guy who the stereotypes want in main events because he wrestled in ROH.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Dec 6, 2014 10:22:17 GMT -5
Just so ya know.......when somebody doesn't agree with your POV? It doesn't make them foolish. It illustrates they have a different opinion.... Just so ya know. I know that bud. But it's pretty much universally agreed that he was over during that time. So.... Just so ya know. And I'm part of the "universally agreed" group that understands he was indeed over during that time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 10:31:33 GMT -5
Bret Hart and Chris Benoit are two guys that were great wrestlers but I thought they were boring. Vanilla. Nothing against them. I enjoyed their matches. I watch wrestling for wrestling mostly. Once again -- not all top wrestlers can talk. But the ones who can't talk and make it to the top do so because their in-ring charisma is impeccable. They totally pull off their character and get people invested, and Hart and Benoit had that in spades. Cesaro doesn't know how to do that, unless he's doing something like swinging a giant around by their legs. He's just a guy with a couple of flashy moves. No personality at all, and that doesn't just mean promos, that's how he comes across in the ring as well. Total midcard. Unless he gets better, he's only ever going to be a midcarder/tag guy who the stereotypes want in main events because he wrestled in ROH. I have no quarrel with what you're saying here
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Post by punksnotdead on Dec 6, 2014 10:33:54 GMT -5
Bret Hart and Chris Benoit are two guys that were great wrestlers but I thought they were boring. Vanilla. Nothing against them. I enjoyed their matches. I watch wrestling for wrestling mostly. Once again -- not all top wrestlers can talk. But the ones who can't talk and make it to the top do so because their in-ring charisma is impeccable. They totally pull off their character and get people invested, and Hart and Benoit had that in spades. Cesaro doesn't know how to do that, unless he's doing something like swinging a giant around by their legs. He's just a guy with a couple of flashy moves. No personality at all, and that doesn't just mean promos, that's how he comes across in the ring as well. Total midcard. Unless he gets better, he's only ever going to be a midcarder/tag guy who the stereotypes want in main events because he wrestled in ROH. I agreed with Vince on the podcast and I agree with this as well. Jeff Hardy and RVD are two other guys who couldn't talk and were able to still connect in other ways. That's Cesaro's problem imo. He isn't finding a way. Yes, I agree that Cesaro got over with the swing. Yes, I think it was a mistake not to give him a babyface run at that time. Even then though, I think you're looking at a guy who is still IC Title level unless he grows from that position. I do think it sucks he never got the shot to try it but Cesaro has received lots of opportunity already. Chris Hero protected Cesaro, a ton. People took that for granted for years imo, and now we're seeing that impact in WWE. Zeb Colter protected Cesaro as well, and it's absolutely no coincidence to me that was the one time he got over. I just think he's a tag team guy until he proves otherwise. I would love to see him paired with a valet, someone like Eva Marie who could be a heat magnet for him if he's going to continue to be a heel, but he has to work with what he's given. I genuinely don't think if you were to switch Cesaro with Rollins, that Cesaro would be in the spot Rollins is at right now.
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facemeat
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Post by facemeat on Dec 6, 2014 10:49:59 GMT -5
Lol. Anyone who thinks the WrestleMania and post-WrestleMania crowd reactions mean someone's over at main event level shouldn't even be worrying about Cesaro, they should still be marching outside WWE HQ with signs demanding Fandango's world title reign. But it wasn't just the WM crowd. Cesaro was getting over before WM, when they started teasing his face turn. I'm not saying he could or couldn't have been sustainable as a main event level face, but there was absolutely no reason for them to not at least attempt a face run.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Dec 6, 2014 11:30:07 GMT -5
Chris Hero protected Cesaro, a ton. People took that for granted for years imo, and now we're seeing that impact in WWE. Zeb Colter protected Cesaro as well, and it's absolutely no coincidence to me that was the one time he got over. I just think he's a tag team guy until he proves otherwise. I would love to see him paired with a valet, someone like Eva Marie who could be a heat magnet for him if he's going to continue to be a heel, but he has to work with what he's given. He already had it with Aksana, remember. It lasted about as long as the Heyman thing. The valet thing doesn't really help him because once he's in the ring, he's still restricted by his own limitations. Maybe a different valet would work, you never know in wrestling what's going to click. I doubt anyone thought putting Billy Gunn and The Roadie together would set the world on fire. Of course he wouldn't. Cesaro would fail miserably in that spot, because Rollins is all-round awesome. But my point was just that if they just put Cesaro in that spot anyway, even if he was doing well, people would still complain that Rollins was being buried. You can't push everyone simultaneously, and right now, Rollins is a guy that has all the tools to go far. Cesaro isn't, and in a transition period, it's only right that they are selective about which new guys they want to focus on.
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Post by Red Dragon on Dec 6, 2014 11:57:33 GMT -5
I took Vince's comments as being supportive. He seems like he wants him to succeed. They did mess up, there's no doubting that. But Cesaro needs to keep working hard and take his next opportunity. I believe it will come.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 12:02:23 GMT -5
Bret could talk. He may not have been full of witty one liners but when he spoke, you believed him.
Also, where did you buy those shoes? KMart?
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Post by HVMMONS on Dec 6, 2014 12:17:09 GMT -5
I'd be interested to see how that goes with the Vaudevillians. Nothing else can hurt him more than he already is.
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Post by marino13 on Dec 6, 2014 12:36:28 GMT -5
Cesaro should be booked like a fart. Silent but deadly.
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Post by Mox on Dec 6, 2014 12:56:08 GMT -5
Maybe he could stop forcing that sh*t fake accent. That's not annoying at all.
They need to reboot him yesterday. Make him a good guy. Bright colors and fun supermoves. It's the only way to save him.
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