wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on Feb 17, 2018 19:41:51 GMT -5
So WWE made it official today that starting in May, there will be no more brand-only PPV events. All the upcoming non-big four shows will be co-branded events after they started making solo-brand events again in summer 2016. So in just a little over a year, they are already going back to the co-branded PPV format after they started this brand extension.
The latest WWE brand split experiment is a failure. The reason it failed, just like last time, is for a very simple reason. The idea of WWE "competing with itself" is folly. WWE literally has no incentive to compete with itself at all. In fact, why would WWE, essentially the biggest and only relevant major name in the wrestling business worldwide, want to compete with itself? It makes no sense. That is why the WWE brand extension doesn't work.
WWE isn't running Raw and Smackdown like two separate brands. There's different sets of Superstars but to be perfectly honest, the shows don't feel different like Raw and Nitro were different or like WCW and WWF were different or NWA and WWF were different.
OK. You will argue that it gives all these other guys TV time and gives other guys pushes, but who really? The cruiserweights? WWE doesn't know how to book or present a junior heavyweight division. It's just not in them. I'd say one-off tournaments like the Mae Young Classic and the Cruiserweight Classic, yes keep those. However, an ongoing cruiserweight division in WWE doesn't work and it was never going to work.
But the brand split doesn't benefit mid-card guys unless the strong creative team is there to go with it. And as we've seen, it's just not there. Look at a guy like Tye Dillinger. A guy who was over as hell in NXT, had a great thing going for him. He makes it to the main roster, and now he's floundering.
It's pretty simple. We've seen time and time again, no matter how someone is connecting with the fans, unless WWE wants to push you it's not going to happen. Yes there are exceptions, Daniel Bryan being one of them, but outside of that, how often do we really see it?
So now that co-branded PPVs are over, here is what is going to happen next. Just like with the last brand split, WWE is going to start having Superstars co-mingle on the shows, like Cena has done on the past. Then they are basically going to declare that the brand extension is over after it already had been for a long time basically in 2013. Simply continuing with two world titles for both shows was nothing more than facade. It was a pretense.
What is the difference between now and the first brand extension? It eroded a HECK OF A LOT quicker. Everything is happening exactly like it did before, except it's happening at a much more accelerated rate.
I think if fans want real competition, I'm not saying they should stop watching WWE, but they should also look at other wrestling products and start supporting them and giving money to them. Not that ROH or NJPW are real competitors or threats to WWE, but they are great alternatives and they do present great guys who don't happen to be in WWE right now.
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Post by theMOESIAH on Feb 17, 2018 19:46:47 GMT -5
I don't think it was about WWE creating false competition this time around. Sure that was the storyline with the co-GM's or whatever from each show but I don't think that was the actual point. IMO the point was to give everyone something to do. Two separate rosters opens now opportunities and can keep things somewhat fresh with the Superstar Shakeups. If the brand extension end a lot of people are going to flounder with not much to do and even more will eventually get released.
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Post by tylerbreezee on Feb 17, 2018 19:52:22 GMT -5
Actually there’s just one reason and it’s the writing. Don’t know why you went super into detail. It’s simply the writing.
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Feb 17, 2018 19:53:53 GMT -5
I think Smackdown should've been its own federation. Let Raw keep the World, IC, Tag, and Women's titles. Shane gets SD and resurrects WCW or makes his own new fed, Universal Wrestling Entertainment. If WCW then titles would be WCW World, US, Tag and Womens. If UWE then Universal, UWE US, Universal Tag, Universal Women. Don't promote WWE shows and PPVs on WCW/UWE Smackdown and vice versa. Pretend like the other organization does not exist like you do with TNA. Don't even cross brand. Raw keeps all the WWE branded PPVs including Mania. WCW/UWE gets all new PPVs and their own big event. Starrcade if WCW, something new if UWE. Then after a couple years do a big Supercard with both brands.
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on Feb 17, 2018 19:57:09 GMT -5
I don't think it was about WWE creating false competition this time around. Sure that was the storyline with the co-GM's or whatever from each show but I don't think that was the actual point. IMO the point was to give everyone something to do. Two separate rosters opens now opportunities and can keep things somewhat fresh with the Superstar Shakeups. If the brand extension end a lot of people are going to flounder with not much to do and even more will eventually get released. Based on what though? If anything all it really did was double the booking problems. If it ends they will flounder, but a lot of people on the roster are already floundering with not much to do already and getting released. Look at Austin Aries. They released one of the best 205'ers they had because they had nothing for him to do when he was in the midst of an amazing feud with Neville. Look at Tye Dillinger. Is he not floundering right now? Dude was over as hell on NXT and when he made his main roster debut. I would say the issue of WWE having no incentive to compete with itself is inherent in the writing. The writers aren't really trying to make WWE compete with each other because there's no drive or incentive to really do that. WWE doesn't really want a brand extension or competition. |
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Post by Mark Martin on Feb 17, 2018 19:58:32 GMT -5
Actually there’s just one reason and it’s the writing. Don’t know why you went super into detail. It’s simply the writing. Yeah, pretty much. That and just the overall presentation of each show. |
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on Feb 17, 2018 20:01:11 GMT -5
In short, it's time for the second brand extension to end.
When WWE brought it back, it wasn't something fans were begging to see again. It was a bad idea from the beginning. Deep down everyone knows this is true.
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Post by theMOESIAH on Feb 17, 2018 20:01:30 GMT -5
I don't think it was about WWE creating false competition this time around. Sure that was the storyline with the co-GM's or whatever from each show but I don't think that was the actual point. IMO the point was to give everyone something to do. Two separate rosters opens now opportunities and can keep things somewhat fresh with the Superstar Shakeups. If the brand extension end a lot of people are going to flounder with not much to do and even more will eventually get released. Based on what though? If anything all it really did was double the booking problems. If it ends they will flounder, but a lot of people on the roster are already floundering with not much to do already and getting released. Look at Austin Aries. They released one of the best 205'ers they had because they had nothing for him to do when he was in the midst of an amazing feud with Neville. Look at Tye Dillinger. Is he not floundering right now? Dude was over as hell on NXT and when he made his main roster debut. I would say the issue of WWE having no incentive to compete with itself is inherent in the writing. The writers aren't really trying to make WWE compete with each other because there's no drive or incentive to really do that. WWE doesn't really want a brand extension or competition. I based my post on  ing logic. If the brand split ends there will be less spots. Less spots in the roster means there will be... get this... less spots on the roster. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Feb 17, 2018 20:08:34 GMT -5
The problem was that Smackdown became too hot for the WWE. That wasn't in the cards. In Vince's eyes, Raw always has to be the hot program.
Take 2002 for example. Smackdown was so hot that in one night, Lance Storm, Test, Christian and Jericho all jumped from Smackdown to Raw. In return, Smackdown got Benoit and Guerrero. And yet, 4 guys for 2 guys and Smackdown still dominated.
Then in 2004 the WWE made sure to put Edge, Benoit, Shelton all over on Raw, to make that brand have the great wrestling action. Ever since then, Raw was the dominate brand.
Same can be said for this new brand extension. Smackdown Live was hot! All the best talent, story lines and such. So do a change up and Smackdown hasn't ever fully recovered. And on top of that they have John Cena being a free agent going from show to show - just to work out whatever big matches the WWE wants to have happen at that time frame.
It's really quite simple, a lot of that talent on each show could be let go and just have one amazing WWE show with all the top talent from both brands. But they don't. And that's why ratings decline and people get bored.
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on Feb 17, 2018 20:14:26 GMT -5
The problem was that Smackdown became too hot for the WWE. That wasn't in the cards. In Vince's eyes, Raw always has to be the hot program. Take 2002 for example. Smackdown was so hot that in one night, Lance Storm, Test, Christian and Jericho all jumped from Smackdown to Raw. In return, Smackdown got Benoit and Guerrero. And yet, 4 guys for 2 guys and Smackdown still dominated. Then in 2004 the WWE made sure to put Edge, Benoit, Shelton all over on Raw, to make that brand have the great wrestling action. Ever since then, Raw was the dominate brand. Same can be said for this new brand extension. Smackdown Live was hot! All the best talent, story lines and such. So do a change up and Smackdown hasn't ever fully recovered. And on top of that they have John Cena being a free agent going from show to show - just to work out whatever big matches the WWE wants to have happen at that time frame. It's really quite simple, a lot of that talent on each show could be let go and just have one amazing WWE show with all the top talent from both brands. But they don't. And that's why ratings decline and people get bored. But that's all based on booking you see. And that's another reason why this doesn't work. Vince says having "WWE compete with itself" but when they make arbitrary decisions like that, one show can't be better than the other, than you are basically killing that idea. Because as I said, WWE has no incentive to compete with itself. They are one singular entity. |
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on Feb 17, 2018 20:16:33 GMT -5
Based on what though? If anything all it really did was double the booking problems. If it ends they will flounder, but a lot of people on the roster are already floundering with not much to do already and getting released. Look at Austin Aries. They released one of the best 205'ers they had because they had nothing for him to do when he was in the midst of an amazing feud with Neville. Look at Tye Dillinger. Is he not floundering right now? Dude was over as hell on NXT and when he made his main roster debut. I would say the issue of WWE having no incentive to compete with itself is inherent in the writing. The writers aren't really trying to make WWE compete with each other because there's no drive or incentive to really do that. WWE doesn't really want a brand extension or competition. I based my post on ing logic. If the brand split ends there will be less spots. Less spots in the roster means there will be... get this... less spots on the roster. It's not little league. Not everyone gets a participation trophy. With the brand split, it seems they are still struggling with all these so-called spots they would have less of. |
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Post by ahunter8056 on Feb 17, 2018 20:22:42 GMT -5
In short, it's time for the second brand extension to end. When WWE brought it back, it wasn't something fans were begging to see again. It was a bad idea from the beginning. Deep down everyone knows this is true. The brand extension is a brilliant idea. It just had bad execution, because WWE insists on hiring Hollywood writers with no clue on how wrestling really works. Until they cease with this ridiculous practice and actually hire writers who know how to write a professional wrestling show, the product will continue to fail to live up to it's potential. The problem lies entirely with the writing. The problem will continue to be the writing, brand extension or no brand extension. That is why stars are floundering. If anything, the brand extension provides more opportunities than they would have otherwise. Personally, I just cannot fathom why anybody would want the brand extension to end. Without a brand extension, it's just a huge mishmash of talent, resulting in far fewer opportunities. At least with separate rosters and championships, it's all organised and you know where everyone is, and why they're going for a certain title. Without that, it's just a colossal mess. |
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Post by theMOESIAH on Feb 17, 2018 20:23:20 GMT -5
I based my post on ing logic. If the brand split ends there will be less spots. Less spots in the roster means there will be... get this... less spots on the roster. It's not little league. Not everyone gets a participation trophy. With the brand split, it seems they are still struggling with all these so-called spots they would have less of. I never said anyone deserved a spot in the company so I'm not sure what your point is. And as someone else already said, the company's only problem is creative. Creative has been a problem years. That has nothing to do with the brand split. Vince is old and out of touch. His audience used to want silly over the top characters and a lot of soap opera-esque entertainment. We don't want that anymore and he can't seem to grasp that fact. The brand split isn't the problem. It's a good thing. It gives more opportunities to more people. Not only does this keep now people employed and create more future opportunities for future starts, it also creates more interest because we aren't seeing the same people over and over again twice a week. It grows the company as a whole. |
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Post by tylerbreezee on Feb 17, 2018 20:31:35 GMT -5
Apparently there’s talk of Triple H completely taking over main roster while Vince focuses on the XFL so I think we’ll see some change starting over the summer this year
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Feb 17, 2018 20:32:04 GMT -5
In a way though the brand extension is no different than when the WWE ran house shows in the 80s with the House Show A group and the House Show B group, and some times if business was good they would run a House Show C group too. That is three different WWE shows happening on the same day around the USA. And fans ate it up. So really, a brand extension shouldn't fail. But like most said, it's the writing staff themselves which is making it fail.
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on Feb 17, 2018 20:33:45 GMT -5
It's not little league. Not everyone gets a participation trophy. With the brand split, it seems they are still struggling with all these so-called spots they would have less of. I never said anyone deserved a spot in the company so I'm not sure what your point is. And as someone else already said, the company's only problem is creative. Creative has been a problem years. That has nothing to do with the brand split. Vince is old and out of touch. His audience used to want silly over the top characters and a lot of soap opera-esque entertainment. We don't want that anymore and he can't seem to grasp that fact. The brand split isn't the problem. It's a good thing. It gives more opportunities to more people. Not only does this keep now people employed and create more future opportunities for future starts, it also creates more interest because we aren't seeing the same people over and over again twice a week. It grows the company as a whole.I I respectfully disagree. I don't think it's been good at all. But look at where we are though. They are already ditching co-branded shows. IMHO that's a sign that it's a failure. That's not really a brand extension though. And as I said before, the brand extension now doesn't work because it's basically not real and WWE has no legitimate incentive to compete with itself and trying to "beat" itself. |
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Post by k5 on Feb 17, 2018 20:39:17 GMT -5
I agree with the others who said it comes down to the writing. The brand extension could work, but not in a creatively stifled environment.
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Feb 17, 2018 20:55:36 GMT -5
It's a total failure due to Vince's stubbornness, as is always the case. He doesn't actually want SmackDown to compete with RAW - he just wants to give off the impression that it's a competition. When SmackDown was the better weekly show right after the second brand split and their ratings started beating RAW, he put a stop to that immediately.
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Post by marino13 on Feb 17, 2018 21:07:38 GMT -5
If WWE ended the brand extension, so many great talent would suffer drastically. Guys like Nakamura, AJ, Balor, Rollins, & Ambrose would most likely never sniff a WWE World title again. You have guys like Miz, Joe, & Roode barely on TV. Talents like Elias & Jason Jordan would never be given a chance to advance. NXT talent would have no shot of ever being called up.
No thanks.
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on Feb 17, 2018 21:09:06 GMT -5
It's a total failure due to Vince's stubbornness, as is always the case. He doesn't actually want SmackDown to compete with RAW - he just wants to give off the impression that it's a competition. When SmackDown was the better weekly show right after the second brand split and their ratings started beating RAW, he put a stop to that immediately. 15 years later, not much has changed. Many of those talents are already suffering. |
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