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Post by The Madness on Sept 4, 2018 19:33:49 GMT -5
I never see it brought up, but the names in the Matty Collector lineup were kind of tough sells. Winning an online poll is one thing, getting someone to drop $30+ on a figure like Tully Blanchard is entirely different.
Outside of Andre, the lineup was just very "meh." If they could have gone either more mainstream with names like Cactus Jack or Goldberg, or completely niche with figures like Isaac Yankem or the Shockmaster, I think it would have been different.
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Post by MKSavage on Sept 4, 2018 21:18:44 GMT -5
I never see it brought up, but the names in the Matty Collector lineup were kind of tough sells. Winning an online poll is one thing, getting someone to drop $30+ on a figure like Tully Blanchard is entirely different. Outside of Andre, the lineup was just very "meh." If they could have gone either more mainstream with names like Cactus Jack or Goldberg, or completely niche with figures like Isaac Yankem or the Shockmaster, I think it would have been different. I agree with you, sort-of. The idea of having guys like DDP, King Kong Bundy, and the Brain Busters to kick off the Matty Collector's legends line didn't help. Add that to the higher price than what you would get in stores, it didn't bode well for the line. They should have started with Warrior, Hogan, Savage, Austin, Rock, HBK, Hitman, Taker, Flair, etc. Then add the middle of the road guys, then the obscure guys to help complete the roster. Though, with all this being said, the only figures I purchased from Matty Collectors was Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson. Wanted to purchase the Rockers but they were always sold out/unavailable when I looked.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 1:44:01 GMT -5
The deals were obviously different They were? Then elaborate dont just state the obvious. If you know they are different, then explain how. You must know more about it. As far as I know Mattel havent stated WWE wont allow them to sign legends, only that Mattel want to stick to releasing guys that are signed to legends deals. I dont think anyone can find evidence saying that WWE wont allow Mattel to sign wrestlers who arent on legends deals. The evidence is the figures, surely?
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hoganvspiper
Superstar
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Post by hoganvspiper on Sept 5, 2018 7:56:52 GMT -5
I hope Bill has asked WWE to sign both British Bulldogs and Greg Valentine. Better yet, I wish Bill/Mattel would be more transparent with the fans.
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Sept 5, 2018 8:04:48 GMT -5
WWE deals, video game deals, figure deals, legends deals, HOF deals....they're all different.
But if WWE doesn't want a figure made of a person, Mattel can't go around them and do it, so signing a guy that does not have a deal with WWE wouldn't make any sense because WWE just would never approve the figure to be made.
Bottom line, if WWE wants or is ok with a figure being made of somebody, it'll get done. If they don't want it done, it won't.
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Post by stc13 on Sept 5, 2018 9:35:28 GMT -5
WWE deals, video game deals, figure deals, legends deals, HOF deals....they're all different.But if WWE doesn't want a figure made of a person, Mattel can't go around them and do it, so signing a guy that does not have a deal with WWE wouldn't make any sense because WWE just would never approve the figure to be made. Bottom line, if WWE wants or is ok with a figure being made of somebody, it'll get done. If they don't want it done, it won't. That isn't entirely correct. Legends deals are blanket contracts that cover licensing, WWE appearances, and intellectual property rights. They cover everything from figures, tshirts, trading cards, to video games. It's possible guys like Sting or Goldberg may have deals that are slightly more lucrative. But 90% of Legends deals are a standard contract that offers a $10k advance and a set percentage of merchandise paid against that advance. A number of the contracts have become public record and they are all identical. The HOF deals are likely just a 1-off appearance fee if WWE doesn't offer a Legends deal or the wrestler doesn't accept one. 2K has signed wrestlers not under WWE contracts for licensing in their video games, but again the majority of the wrestlers they use are covered under blanket WWE contracts. They do not have separate contracts for video games. By only using wrestlers signed to WWE contracts, Mattel avoids paying any sort of royalties or licensing to the wrestlers beyond what they are paying to WWE. The royalties for the wrestlers come straight out of WWE's cut. If Mattel were to directly sign wrestlers, they would be responsible for those payments.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 10:05:13 GMT -5
WWE deals, video game deals, figure deals, legends deals, HOF deals....they're all different.But if WWE doesn't want a figure made of a person, Mattel can't go around them and do it, so signing a guy that does not have a deal with WWE wouldn't make any sense because WWE just would never approve the figure to be made. Bottom line, if WWE wants or is ok with a figure being made of somebody, it'll get done. If they don't want it done, it won't. That isn't entirely correct. Legends deals are blanket contracts that cover licensing, WWE appearances, and intellectual property rights. They cover everything from figures, tshirts, trading cards, to video games. It's possible guys like Sting or Goldberg may have deals that are slightly more lucrative. But 90% of Legends deals are a standard contract that offers a $10k advance and a set percentage of merchandise paid against that advance. A number of the contracts have become public record and they are all identical. The HOF deals are likely just a 1-off appearance fee if WWE doesn't offer a Legends deal or the wrestler doesn't accept one. 2K has signed wrestlers not under WWE contracts for licensing in their video games, but again the majority of the wrestlers they use are covered under blanket WWE contracts. They do not have separate contracts for video games. By only using wrestlers signed to WWE contracts, Mattel avoids paying any sort of royalties or licensing to the wrestlers beyond what they are paying to WWE. The royalties for the wrestlers come straight out of WWE's cut. If Mattel were to directly sign wrestlers, they would be responsible for those payments. How long have you been working on the contracts? Interesting to have an insight from someone who worked on the Legebds contracts, were you working for the law firm that put them together? Or the agents of the superstars?
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Post by Chewdeezy on Sept 5, 2018 10:14:18 GMT -5
Bill’s bosses say no.
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Post by stc13 on Sept 5, 2018 11:25:28 GMT -5
How long have you been working on the contracts? Interesting to have an insight from someone who worked on the Legebds contracts, were you working for the law firm that put them together? Or the agents of the superstars? You're welcome to believe what you'd like. But there's a lot of information that is public record, both because WWE is publicly traded and through the concussion lawsuit. I've done a fair amount of research on the subject for projects that have nothing to do with wrestling figures. But you're welcome to do the legwork yourself if you're skeptical. Here's a link to Bryan Clark's Legends deal that was part of the evidence in the concussion lawsuit: www.documentcloud.org/documents/3549783-Bryan-Clark-Legends-Contract-OCR.html
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 12:00:07 GMT -5
I hope Bill has asked WWE to sign both British Bulldogs and Greg Valentine. Better yet, I wish Bill/Mattel would be more transparent with the fans. Bill will never be more transparent, due to the nature of his job he is likely forbidden to give out too much information about lineups, specific figures, etc. I think Mattel should have him focus on what he does best- designing figures, and have someone else handle the PR, including interacting with the fan base. We got more out of Steve in one online chat then we have ever gotten from Bill. I think part of the problem with Bill is he doesn't do well with public speaking (I recall during the recent comic con it was mentioned that he was being made fun of because he gets nervous and sweats a lot) so aside from not be allowed to reveal certain things, he might be keeping his answers short so that he doesn't let something slip due to his nervousness?! Regarding Greg Valentine, I am starting to think that the reason he hasn't been signed to a deal is due to the stupid comments he made about women's wrestling a few years ago. I am not sure if he was being serious or just joking but in this F'd up society we live in where most people are hyper sensitive and get offended over anything and everything, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason why WWE won't sign him to a legends deal because frankly nothing else makes sense to me. I think The Bulldogs are a long shot due to the Dynamite Kid being on bad terms with WWE. Unless something major changes, I don't think we will see any Mattel British Bulldogs figs which sucks because they are a big want and a major hole in Mattel's 80s roster.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 12:04:57 GMT -5
How long have you been working on the contracts? Interesting to have an insight from someone who worked on the Legebds contracts, were you working for the law firm that put them together? Or the agents of the superstars? You're welcome to believe what you'd like. But there's a lot of information that is public record, both because WWE is publicly traded and through the concussion lawsuit. I've done a fair amount of research on the subject for projects that have nothing to do with wrestling figures. But you're welcome to do the legwork yourself if you're skeptical. Here's a link to Bryan Clark's Legends deal that was part of the evidence in the concussion lawsuit: www.documentcloud.org/documents/3549783-Bryan-Clark-Legends-Contract-OCR.htmlIm not sure Adam Bomb's legend deal would work the same as everyone elses though, its not public knowledge how contracts work and how much they get etc
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marklud
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Post by marklud on Sept 5, 2018 12:32:40 GMT -5
You're welcome to believe what you'd like. But there's a lot of information that is public record, both because WWE is publicly traded and through the concussion lawsuit. I've done a fair amount of research on the subject for projects that have nothing to do with wrestling figures. But you're welcome to do the legwork yourself if you're skeptical. Here's a link to Bryan Clark's Legends deal that was part of the evidence in the concussion lawsuit: www.documentcloud.org/documents/3549783-Bryan-Clark-Legends-Contract-OCR.htmlIm not sure Adam Bomb's legend deal would work the same as everyone elses though, its not public knowledge how contracts work and how much they get etc This stuff has been out in the open for a while now and I’ve talked a lot about it before. STC is right and you’ve got no reason to dismiss or just toss aside what he said. What he said above is right with this stuff. Edit: Look up some of the stuff Mick Foley and Bret Hart have said in the past about these contracts. It’s not hidden knowledge.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 12:40:29 GMT -5
Im not sure Adam Bomb's legend deal would work the same as everyone elses though, its not public knowledge how contracts work and how much they get etc This stuff has been out in the open for a while now and I’ve talked a lot about it before. STC is right and you’ve got no reason to dismiss or just toss aside what he said. What he said above is right with this stuff. Edit: Look up some of the stuff Mick Foley and Bret Hart have said in the past about these contracts. It’s not hidden knowledge. Of course that applies those who have spoken about there contracts, but not those who havent. Its beside the point, the point of the thread was asking about Mattel making figures of those not on contracts, and the answer, as has been said numerous times in those q&a's, Mattel cannot and will never make figures if the guys are not signed up
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Post by MKSavage on Sept 5, 2018 12:41:07 GMT -5
I hope Bill has asked WWE to sign both British Bulldogs and Greg Valentine. Better yet, I wish Bill/Mattel would be more transparent with the fans. Bill will never be more transparent, due to the nature of his job he is likely forbidden to give out too much information about lineups, specific figures, etc. I think Mattel should have him focus on what he does best- designing figures, and have someone else handle the PR, including interacting with the fan base. We got more out of Steve in one online chat then we have ever gotten from Bill. I think part of the problem with Bill is he doesn't do well with public speaking (I recall during the recent comic con it was mentioned that he was being made fun of because he gets nervous and sweats a lot) so aside from not be allowed to reveal certain things, he might be keeping his answers short so that he doesn't let something slip due to his nervousness?! Regarding Greg Valentine, I am starting to think that the reason he hasn't been signed to a deal is due to the stupid comments he made about women's wrestling a few years ago. I am not sure if he was being serious or just joking but in this F'd up society we live in where most people are hyper sensitive and get offended over anything and everything, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason why WWE won't sign him to a legends deal because frankly nothing else makes sense to me. I think The Bulldogs are a long shot due to the Dynamite Kid being on bad terms with WWE. Unless something major changes, I don't think we will see any Mattel British Bulldogs figs which sucks because they are a big want and a major hole in Mattel's 80s roster. What did Hammer say about women's wrestling? As for making the British Bulldogs and Greg Valentine figures, obviously Davey Boy has been/still is under contract and Hammer has stated in the past that he has been under contract as well so the only hold up would be Dynamite Kid. I've heard that Dynamite Kid is on bad terms with the WWE as well and if I'm not mistaken he was one of the figures that Jakks had to sign separately to get the figure made. It seems that WWE might be the hold up on Hammer not getting a figure, I can't imagine Mattel not making one because it doesn't seem likely they would think that he would do worse than Virgil, Shockmaster, or Red Rooster.
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mrassbillygunn
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Sept 5, 2018 12:49:22 GMT -5
WWE deals, video game deals, figure deals, legends deals, HOF deals....they're all different.But if WWE doesn't want a figure made of a person, Mattel can't go around them and do it, so signing a guy that does not have a deal with WWE wouldn't make any sense because WWE just would never approve the figure to be made. Bottom line, if WWE wants or is ok with a figure being made of somebody, it'll get done. If they don't want it done, it won't. That isn't entirely correct. Legends deals are blanket contracts that cover licensing, WWE appearances, and intellectual property rights. They cover everything from figures, tshirts, trading cards, to video games. It's possible guys like Sting or Goldberg may have deals that are slightly more lucrative. But 90% of Legends deals are a standard contract that offers a $10k advance and a set percentage of merchandise paid against that advance. A number of the contracts have become public record and they are all identical. The HOF deals are likely just a 1-off appearance fee if WWE doesn't offer a Legends deal or the wrestler doesn't accept one. 2K has signed wrestlers not under WWE contracts for licensing in their video games, but again the majority of the wrestlers they use are covered under blanket WWE contracts. They do not have separate contracts for video games. By only using wrestlers signed to WWE contracts, Mattel avoids paying any sort of royalties or licensing to the wrestlers beyond what they are paying to WWE. The royalties for the wrestlers come straight out of WWE's cut. If Mattel were to directly sign wrestlers, they would be responsible for those payments. You're the only one that argued this whole debate logically. Well done.
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marklud
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Post by marklud on Sept 5, 2018 13:46:06 GMT -5
This stuff has been out in the open for a while now and I’ve talked a lot about it before. STC is right and you’ve got no reason to dismiss or just toss aside what he said. What he said above is right with this stuff. Edit: Look up some of the stuff Mick Foley and Bret Hart have said in the past about these contracts. It’s not hidden knowledge. Of course that applies those who have spoken about there contracts, but not those who havent. Its beside the point, the point of the thread was asking about Mattel making figures of those not on contracts, and the answer, as has been said numerous times in those q&a's, Mattel cannot and will never make figures if the guys are not signed up But they HAVE in the past. Which is why what STC said is important. Bret, Warrior, Macho, a lot of those guys were signed directly by Mattel before they changed their policy. Whether it’s to avoid royalty payments or minimize costs or specifically at the direction of the WWE is what we don’t know. But they most definitely did before and now do not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 13:49:12 GMT -5
During some podcast that he took part in, he basically said that they suck and they take away jobs from men. Here's the linkHe tried to sue them a while back, not sure what the result was (I think the suit may have been dismissed?!). I think the only way we will see a Dynamite Kid figure is if Mattel signs him to a deal and WWE allows them to go ahead and make figures. I think a Valentine figure, packaged at 1 per case, would sell just fine. It would be a first time in the line fig and Mattel has made figures of other guys (Tito Santana, Honky Tonk Man) that Valentine feuded with or partnered up with that provide incentive for people to want to buy a figure of 'The Hammer'. The he's too niche' argument doesn't fly with Valentine IMO, he was part of the 80s Golden era and is quite well know by fans of that era. If Mattel can make a Magnum TA figure (the definition of niche IMO as only the most hardcore wrestling fans know who he is) then they can make a Greg Valentine figure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 13:55:01 GMT -5
Of course that applies those who have spoken about there contracts, but not those who havent. Its beside the point, the point of the thread was asking about Mattel making figures of those not on contracts, and the answer, as has been said numerous times in those q&a's, Mattel cannot and will never make figures if the guys are not signed up But they HAVE in the past. Which is why what STC said is important. Bret, Warrior, Macho, a lot of those guys were signed directly by Mattel before they changed their policy. Whether it’s to avoid royalty payments or minimize costs or specifically at the direction of the WWE is what we don’t know. But they most definitely did before and now do not. Exactly, they signed several legends to deals when the line first began for the legends line. What we want to know (probably never will) is whether they still are able to sign deals with legends OR whether WWE has now prohibited them from doing so (via a clause in the licensing agreement which took effect when the deal was renewed).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 14:29:38 GMT -5
Of course that applies those who have spoken about there contracts, but not those who havent. Its beside the point, the point of the thread was asking about Mattel making figures of those not on contracts, and the answer, as has been said numerous times in those q&a's, Mattel cannot and will never make figures if the guys are not signed up But they HAVE in the past. Which is why what STC said is important. Bret, Warrior, Macho, a lot of those guys were signed directly by Mattel before they changed their policy. Whether it’s to avoid royalty payments or minimize costs or specifically at the direction of the WWE is what we don’t know. But they most definitely did before and now do not. Mattel and WWE only recently renewed their deal, there must have been changes made in that new deal
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crush
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Yes, i know it's weird...
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Post by crush on Sept 5, 2018 15:02:55 GMT -5
Question: What kind of deals are guys like Bret/Foley/Austin under? All have talked about not being on Legends deals, all sell their own merch independent of WWE, but also appear in the Funko/Mattel lines and on shirts and other merchandise sold by WWEShop.
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