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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2008 21:27:44 GMT -5
OK, now guys. Bare with me for a second and let me attempt to make my point.
Since Punk came into the federation, in my eyes he was hyped up because of all the great stuff he had done on the indies. The IWC loved him and casuals heard the buzz in the arenas from the people that knew his indy past and it caught on.
Now I myself saw his indy stuff and know how good he is and what kind of a wrestler he is CAPABLE of being. But for a moment, separate yourself from his past. Take it as a guy that you just saw pop up in WWE and never heard any of the hype. What has he done in WWE that warranted a World Title run?
Not even blaming it on a lack of talent, because I know he has it. Just what has WWE put him in. I can't think of any good feuds outside of him and New Breed with the fake heel turn. I can't think of many classic matches or great captivating promos despite the fact we know he has it in him.
I honestly feel like if you look at him solely on his WWE run, he has had one of the most uneventful pushes in history (not counting the likes of Khali etc)
Thoughts?
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Post by v/\v on Oct 1, 2008 21:29:14 GMT -5
I completely agree with you're points. They have not done a whole lot with him at all, yet he's already a former World Champ.
Hopefully this 'Orton feud' makes him look good. Orton will be the victor at the end of it I'm sure but if Punk can have a 20-30 minute match with Orton at the climax of the feud, then he would look very strong coming out of it and going forward, only being 'caught out' by an RKO or two.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2008 21:32:52 GMT -5
I completely agree with you're points. They have not done a whole lot with him at all, yet he's already a former World Champ. I just hope they give him a chance to turn heel and really show us what he is made of and get the title back. I would hate to see WWE be dis-satisfied with his first run and mark him off considering how little they gave him before hand.
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Post by Deadshot on Oct 1, 2008 21:39:05 GMT -5
This thread is really just stating the obvious.
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Post by jayjay on Oct 1, 2008 21:41:15 GMT -5
He has done nothing that I am aware of..., MVP should have won MITB and cashed it in on Triple H IMO. Atleast he has well...done something that is in the history books...
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Post by AdamBomb on Oct 1, 2008 21:51:28 GMT -5
OK, now guys. Bare with me for a second and let me attempt to make my point. Since Punk came into the federation, in my eyes he was hyped up because of all the great stuff he had done on the indies. The IWC loved him and casuals heard the buzz in the arenas from the people that knew his indy past and it caught on. Now I myself saw his indy stuff and know how good he is and what kind of a wrestler he is CAPABLE of being. But for a moment, separate yourself from his past. Take it as a guy that you just saw pop up in WWE and never heard any of the hype. What has he done in WWE that warranted a World Title run? Not even blaming it on a lack of talent, because I know he has it. Just what has WWE put him in. I can't think of any good feuds outside of him and New Breed with the fake heel turn. I can't think of many classic matches or great captivating promos despite the fact we know he has it in him. I honestly feel like if you look at him solely on his WWE run, he has had one of the most uneventful pushes in history (not counting the likes of Khali etc) Thoughts? Classic matches? Maybe not by everyone's standards because it was on ECW, but his matches with Stevie Richards were some of the BEST I've seen in recent times in the WWE. WWE hasn't let CM Punk reach his full potential, sure they gave him the World Heavyweight and ECW straps, but they haven't let him... just be him. He doesn't get a lot of mic time, and when he does he's usually interrupted. I feel like his push was due to the facts that he caught on, fans love him, and he can work a match and, well... I'm sure they liked having a clean "Straight Edge" guy represent them as their 'top' guy. At the meat of it though, his past is what sorta makes him who he is... not many indy guys reach the level of popularity he was at BEFORE ever getting to the 'big times' of the WWE. If it wasn't for all of the hard work he put into his career before ever signing, he might just be some random guy, but that's what makes him special. Plus, a unique look and gimmick are also in his favor. His brightly colored tattoos are hard to not look at, and luckily, when a LOT of people notice them and see him wrestle, not sucking in the ring doesn't hurt either.
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Post by tnafan17: The Total Package on Oct 1, 2008 22:11:36 GMT -5
OK, now guys. Bare with me for a second and let me attempt to make my point. Since Punk came into the federation, in my eyes he was hyped up because of all the great stuff he had done on the indies. The IWC loved him and casuals heard the buzz in the arenas from the people that knew his indy past and it caught on. Now I myself saw his indy stuff and know how good he is and what kind of a wrestler he is CAPABLE of being. But for a moment, separate yourself from his past. Take it as a guy that you just saw pop up in WWE and never heard any of the hype. What has he done in WWE that warranted a World Title run? Not even blaming it on a lack of talent, because I know he has it. Just what has WWE put him in. I can't think of any good feuds outside of him and New Breed with the fake heel turn. I can't think of many classic matches or great captivating promos despite the fact we know he has it in him. I honestly feel like if you look at him solely on his WWE run, he has had one of the most uneventful pushes in history (not counting the likes of Khali etc) Thoughts? Classic matches? Maybe not by everyone's standards because it was on ECW, but his matches with Stevie Richards were some of the BEST I've seen in recent times in the WWE. WWE hasn't let CM Punk reach his full potential, sure they gave him the World Heavyweight and ECW straps, but they haven't let him... just be him. He doesn't get a lot of mic time, and when he does he's usually interrupted. I feel like his push was due to the facts that he caught on, fans love him, and he can work a match and, well... I'm sure they liked having a clean "Straight Edge" guy represent them as their 'top' guy. At the meat of it though, his past is what sorta makes him who he is... not many indy guys reach the level of popularity he was at BEFORE ever getting to the 'big times' of the WWE. If it wasn't for all of the hard work he put into his career before ever signing, he might just be some random guy, but that's what makes him special. Plus, a unique look and gimmick are also in his favor. His brightly colored tattoos are hard to not look at, and luckily, when a LOT of people notice them and see him wrestle, not sucking in the ring doesn't hurt either. I agree I think Punk has a lot to left to give, but WWE isn't letting him be himself so he really can't "give" some of his Promo's and stuff like he was cutting in ROH.
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wagwan
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Post by wagwan on Oct 2, 2008 0:29:20 GMT -5
Personally, I've seen CM Punk a couple of times on the Indies, and I thought he was WAY overrated.
He obviously wasn't supposed to win the MITB match, and to be honest, I think him wining the WHC was definitely something not thought of until that week. I'm not a CM Punk fan at all. However, to his credit, he has done everything he possibly could with the oppurtunties presented to him, and I mean that in a postive way.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Oct 2, 2008 0:34:33 GMT -5
I agree pretty much word-for-word with what wagwan said.
There are a lot of independent wrestlers that the Internet idiots hype up, and then when the guy gets to WWE it turns out that they're actually still pretty damn far from being a great wrestler. Punk has actually improved more than I ever expected, and come a lot further than I expected. Fair play to him.
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Matthew Stovell
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Post by Matthew Stovell on Oct 2, 2008 4:21:48 GMT -5
He has done nothing that I am aware of..., MVP should have won MITB and cashed it in on Triple H IMO. Atleast he has well...done something that is in the history books... i don't see how beating a murderer in a 2 out of 3 falls match, or having a long, drawn out title reign that didn't have a big conclusion, or being consistently boring in all his matches, makes him deserving of any higher push than what he has already had.
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Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Oct 2, 2008 4:46:26 GMT -5
I agree pretty much word-for-word with what wagwan said. There are a lot of independent wrestlers that the Internet idiots hype up, and then when the guy gets to WWE it turns out that they're actually still pretty damn far from being a great wrestler. Punk has actually improved more than I ever expected, and come a lot further than I expected. Fair play to him. That may be true, in some cases - but that doesn't apply to CM Punk at all.. I remember you saying the exact same thing about Paul Burchill, too.. Both are tremendous wrestlers, who do not need to improve on a damn thing, wrestling-wise.. Given the chance, Punk (and Burchill) could wrestle rings around the majority of the roster - but he's simply not being given that chance, and because of the restricted WWE style he is forced to work, is not ever likely to be given that chance.. Like someone said, there is no real need for this thread, because it is just stating the obvious.. We all know that prior to becoming WHC, Punk didn't do anything significant - because the WWE did not let him do anything significant.. Take it up with creative/management/Vince - because the fault lies solely with them, and not anything Punk himself, is doing.. He's done as good a job as he can, given the circumstances..
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Post by axemurderer on Oct 2, 2008 6:42:36 GMT -5
Personally, I've seen CM Punk a couple of times on the Indies, and I thought he was WAY overrated. . he still is. I could care less what he did in the indy feds...he is in WWE now and trust me, he hasnt impressed me at all. he was transition. he was needed to get the title belt over to raw, and that was it.
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Post by ● kaneisdaman ● on Oct 2, 2008 11:08:52 GMT -5
About the only thing he did was winning the ECW title but other than that, not very much. Punk has been criticised quite a lot in wwe especially for his house show work, it sucked here too.
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Post by inrogers29 on Oct 2, 2008 11:17:50 GMT -5
Its not like this was planned or anything. If Vince and Co. thought they were gonna give Punk MITB they would have built him up more but Punk was just given it when Jeff got suspended. That was gonna be Jeff's MITB. Once Punk got it I think even WWE wasnt really sure where to go with it and it was probably an on the spot choice to give it to him the night after Night Of Champions on RAW. I dont think it did any harm at all to the reputation of the World Championship in most peoples eyes.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Oct 2, 2008 11:32:29 GMT -5
That may be true, in some cases - but that doesn't apply to CM Punk at all.. I remember you saying the exact same thing about Paul Burchill, too.. Yes, Paul Burchill - one of the prime cases of "The Emperor Has No Clothes" - built up by the Internet idiots as something great, then he appears and can't get a fan reaction to save his life. Yes, because HHH and Undertaker and Orton and Edge and Jericho and Michaels are hamstrung by that pesky "WWE style" that stops anyone getting over with fans, eh? If you see all wrestlers as faceless robots that are completely controlled by the "creative team" then how can you like any of them? Every time any wrestler steps out in front of a crowd they have a world of opportunity. I can think of multiple examples in the last few years of wrestlers that became tremendously and unexpectedly popular and forced WWE's hand on storyline directions: Batista's whole rise to championship status for one, when WWE was building towards HHH vs Orton for WrestleMania. Eugene was another, his popularity (and Benoit's inability to be a character of value) led to him being the most important babyface character on RAW during the Benoit title run. Jeff Hardy was thrown into the main event scene late last year by fan support. Umaga took King Booker's WM23 role by being so impressive in his series with Cena. Those are just four examples. Conversely, Punk has had several months as the main titleholder on two different WWE brands. You can blame whatever you like for your little indie favourites failing to make it in the real promotion, but ultimately, the responsibility is on their shoulders. Punk is not a failure yet. Burchill most likely is - he's a guy that could be kept around as a Victoria-esque heel jobber, but he hasn't displayed any kind of star ability beyond that. And he was given months of squash matches, a hot chick, an alliance with the Raw GM, runs with other rising stars (Kingston and Kennedy) and he never made any of it click. Hopefully, he will do so at some point, but it doesn't seem likely. Punk on the other hand did a reasonable job as the fluke champion - he played the part well enough. But the opportunity was there to succeed even if he was being set up to fail. There's a difference between entertaining 200 people who rate matches based on some arbitrary five star system and entertaining 10000 people who don't give a damn about Japanese armbars.
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Post by Dan on Oct 2, 2008 11:35:43 GMT -5
They need to stick him in a Street Fight with Shawn Michaels or Edge. That would sort him out.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Oct 2, 2008 11:41:24 GMT -5
They need to stick him in a Street Fight with Shawn Michaels or Edge. That would sort him out. I wish there had been a bit of Punk/Edge backstage stuff at the PPVs when Punk was champion. Edge should by rights want to give him a good hiding for the cheap title win, and that's a feud they should touch on every now and then to keep it in people's minds.
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AV1
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Post by AV1 on Oct 2, 2008 11:43:10 GMT -5
why does everyone hate punk after he won the title? he is a great performer and a deserving champion. if punk didn't win the title there wouldn't be any threads like this.
the thing that bugs me though is that wwe doesn't let him show his true talent. e.g the wont let him do the pepsi plunge because hhh thinks it is two similar to the pedigree.
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The Canadian Zebra
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Post by The Canadian Zebra on Oct 2, 2008 11:47:35 GMT -5
I personally still think they should have done a fued with Punk and Hardy similar to the one that he did with Raven in ROH. Have Punk rip on hardy for getting suspended twice and being a drug addict and all that yadda yadda. I think it would have made him a heel and elevated him on the mic. But thats just my opionion.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Oct 2, 2008 11:52:53 GMT -5
I personally still think they should have done a fued with Punk and Hardy similar to the one that he did with Raven in ROH. Have Punk rip on hardy for getting suspended twice and being a drug addict and all that yadda yadda. I think it would have made him a heel and elevated him on the mic. But thats just my opionion. WWE would be mad to have a guy promoting a drug-free, alcohol-free lifestyle be a heel at the moment. Which is a shame in a way, because that heel version of Punk would work great to the WWE audience which has been conditioned to think "Beer's cool!" by years of Austin. But it's better to have a straight edge guy as a role model now, overall.
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