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Post by spawnsyxx9 on Dec 29, 2008 15:39:41 GMT -5
Mir may be on a roll, but I seriously still see Big Nog winning this match. Though in all honesty I am wanting Brock to retain.
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DWright
Main Eventer
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Post by DWright on Dec 29, 2008 15:42:06 GMT -5
Mir may be on a roll, but I seriously still see Big Nog winning this match. Though in all honesty I am wanting Brock to retain. ....what? Mir and Nog already fought. Welcome to Monday.
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Post by Kliquid on Dec 29, 2008 15:42:09 GMT -5
Mir may be on a roll, but I seriously still see Big Nog winning this match. Though in all honesty I am wanting Brock to retain. What?
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DWright
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Post by DWright on Dec 29, 2008 15:43:39 GMT -5
Mir may be on a roll, but I seriously still see Big Nog winning this match. Though in all honesty I am wanting Brock to retain. I'll bet you $500 that Mir beats Nog.
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PdW2kX
Main Eventer
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Post by PdW2kX on Dec 29, 2008 16:50:04 GMT -5
For my part, I never said anybody would destroy anybody in Nog/Mir. I just said that my heart picked Frank and my head picked Nog. Nog seemed to have all the ingredients necessary to beat Mir and then some, but in the end I never counted out Frank Mir and I'm actually quite glad he won.
That said, Brock didn't get caught up in the moment with Couture because he went on and on about how much he respects Couture, and post-fight he revealed that he was actually scared about this fight.
Not so with Mir. Something tells me that in the coming months this thing will boil over into a huge talking war. Both men will train their asses off because neither likes the other and neither likes the "paper champion" stigma.
I do not see the rematch going the same way as their second fight, but I still say Brock either gets tapped or choked. He's going to do some massive damage to Mir, though. And Brock may not tap until he's unconscious or something breaks.
But still, I say Brock gets subbed. Of course I'd be all too happy to eat my words if Brock puts on a highlight reel performance and utterly obliterates Frank. But for now, and we're talking months and months until Frank/Lesnar II so my concrete opinion may change, I still say Brock makes one mistake, however large or tiny, and Mir capitalizes by locking in a sub.
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Post by Swarm on Dec 29, 2008 17:06:46 GMT -5
This is going to be an interesting one.
With Brock Lesnar, you've got someone who's very big, very strong, and a very good wrestler. However his standup against Couture, while very tight, wasn't extraordinary by any means and is something I imagine he is going to be working on a lot in the coming months. His cardio and Jiu Jitsu both seem to remain a mystery, as he seemed to look a little tired by the end of the first round with Couture but since it never went to the third round, it's hard to say he was or wasn't. As for his Jiu Jitsu, we really have no idea what it's all about. I'm also skeptical at this point of his ground and pound. Sure he's strong and throws a lot of punches and elbows, but he doesn't seem to put a lot into any of them and against a guy like Frank Mir who's so gifted in Jiu Jitsu, it could prove to be a major shortcoming if he's not able to truly impose his will in a dominant position and reign down some heavy hits.
As for Mir, he might just be tailor made at this point to pick Brock Lesnar apart. We all know his Jiu Jitsu acumen, but his standup against Nogueira was outstanding. That right uppercut from Southpaw stance was a thing of beauty and he just completely picked Nogueira apart the entire fight. As for his shortcomings, they've really always been his wrestling and his stamina. His stamina looked to be really good against Nogueira, most likely from his conscious decision not to engage in an energy-wasting ground scenario that could've taken a lot out of him. But we truly won't know for sure until he's in the deep waters. Also, while we haven't seen anything of his wrestling, I doubt it's a big deal as Mir can be just as dangerous from the bottom as he can on top.
So if I had to assume right now, I see Mir owning Lesnar in the standup with much crisper striking and blocking, Lesnar taking Mir down later in the fight, and Mir again able to tap out the big man. So I'm gonna go, at this moment, with Frank Mir in the second or third round via Submission.
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Post by axemurderer on Dec 29, 2008 17:22:35 GMT -5
LOL DUDE...go read the first page of this thread. Mr. Shogun of Harlem... yeah so I dont think his win over Herring was worth a crap..so what he is a top 10 HW in the world...boo ing hoo..there are maybe 5 HWs worth talking about. If it was top 10 in the LHW division Id give him some props..top 10 hw is pretty easy when after the top 5 its a mish mash of trying to compile a decent list. and again with Couture....being almost 50 and not fighting for over a year, not impressed with a win in that fight. Its not that I dont wanna respect Lesnar or I dont want to give him credit..Im actually a fan of WWE Lesnar and Lesnar in general. I see his opponents as equal to the opponents Kimbo Slice .. people that were put in there to get creamed with a marketable name (shamrock, tank abbot).. I just havent seen anything impressive yet other than a big guy with a marketable name. Ill give him credit on how humble he was when he defeated Couture. He showed a lot of class not dogging him or any other fighter. Ill start respecting Brock and giving him his due credit..if he does beat Mir. BIIIIIIG IF. to me, it would be his first quality opponent.
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Post by Mr. Orange on Dec 29, 2008 17:50:25 GMT -5
No more Steve MazzagattiCredit: Sports.Yahoo article Griffin looked like he was tapping the ground as Mazzagatti stepped in, but Griffin claimed it was an involuntary body movement that looked like a tap. UFC president Dana White was upset after the match at Mazzagatti, saying he thought the stoppage was late, but was more upset over an earlier stoppage in which Cheick Kongo was bludgeoning Mostapha Al-Turk. “He’s a nice guy, but he’s not a referee,” said White. -------------------------------------------------------------- Looks like Brock won't evere have to worry about Mazzagatti anymore.
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PdW2kX
Main Eventer
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Post by PdW2kX on Dec 29, 2008 17:56:55 GMT -5
Thank the ING LORD. Mazzy has been a trainwreck of a ref for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time, and that's going far beyond any Mir/Lesnar controversy. I legitimately cringe whenever I see him announced as the ref in charge, and he's had a horrible streak of late where almost every single fight he refs ends with some kind of controversy, large or small. If this does mean he gets the boot, I'm actually quite glad.
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Sandy
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
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Post by Sandy on Dec 29, 2008 18:02:08 GMT -5
LOL at Griffin. But I agree with letting him go. One of the best mustaches in the business, just not that great of a referee.
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Post by James Hetfield on Dec 29, 2008 18:12:40 GMT -5
No more Steve MazzagattiCredit: Sports.Yahoo article Griffin looked like he was tapping the ground as Mazzagatti stepped in, but Griffin claimed it was an involuntary body movement that looked like a tap. UFC president Dana White was upset after the match at Mazzagatti, saying he thought the stoppage was late, but was more upset over an earlier stoppage in which Cheick Kongo was bludgeoning Mostapha Al-Turk. “He’s a nice guy, but he’s not a referee,” said White. -------------------------------------------------------------- Looks like Brock won't evere have to worry about Mazzagatti anymore. I don't know. Griffin was taking some very hard shots and they weren't getting answered. Same with the Al-Turk match.
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Dec 29, 2008 19:05:33 GMT -5
Good. I'm glad. He's a pretty terrible referee and I don't think it was even a possibility that he would be the referee for Mir/Lesnar II because Brock wouldn't have allowed it and I don't blame him one bit.
I hope either Mario Yamasaki or Yves Lavigne gets the call for Mir/Lesnar II. They are both great referees.
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Post by Mr. Orange on Dec 29, 2008 19:50:32 GMT -5
Guys, keep in mind its not 100% official that he's not reffing UFC anymore. But based on that article, it looks like he could be on his way out.
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BigEvilNerd
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Post by BigEvilNerd on Dec 29, 2008 21:28:02 GMT -5
I'm taking Mir. Unlike against Randy he'll be fighting a guy with no ring rust, who has a great submission game, and importantly at least MORE size to deal with Brock's size advantage than Randy had. Don't get me wrong, Randy did great considering, but it was still a 220 pound guy against a 280 pound guy, and when both are wrestlers...do the math. Randy, as good as he is, isn't a submission whiz. Mir's got decent jiu jitsu; I really don't think Brock has gotten phenomenally better since the first Mir fight...he beat Herring who I picked him to beat anyhow based simply on the fact he'd be able to outwrestle him, and he TKO'ed a rusty, old incredibly outsized Couture. I think Mir's more focused than ever right now. Mir by sub in the 2nd.
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Post by axemurderer on Dec 29, 2008 22:20:36 GMT -5
Mir's got decent jiu jitsu;. decent ? do you live under a rock or are you being sarcastic ? Mir is a phenom on the mat.
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BigEvilNerd
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Post by BigEvilNerd on Dec 29, 2008 22:34:15 GMT -5
Mir's got decent jiu jitsu;. decent ? do you live under a rock or are you being sarcastic ? Mir is a phenom on the mat. I hesitate to call Mir's jits phenomenal simply because in the grand scheme of things, his game is good in a sea of competitors with great jiu jitsu. I would rate Nog's Jiu Jitsu ahead of Mir's...the reason that Mir's ground skills stand out so much is because generally, in the UFC, we haven't seen a ton of heavyweights rise to the level Mir's gotten to based on being great Jiu Jitsu practitioners. Ricco was one example. The thing is I tend to understate the ability of a LOT of MMA fighters because people like Joe Rogan throw around the term 'world class' all the time without having a ing clue what it means. World class means you could beat some of the best in the world in straight grappling; I seriously doubt a lot of the guys that Rogan has said that about could do that. It's the equivalent of Tony Schiavone saying EVERY pay per view and EVERY episode of Nitro was the 'greatest night in the history of the sport.' After a while, it loses its kick.
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Post by Mr. Old School™ on Dec 29, 2008 22:52:14 GMT -5
Even if Brock does beat Mir, all you haters still won't give Brock his due. I mean, he defeated a ing living legend of MMA in Randy Couture for the UFC Heavyweight belt and you guys still tear him down. If you didn't give him his due after he beat Couture, then you sure as hell won't give him his due if he beats Mir. It's like nothing Brock can do is ever good enough. He's at the top of the UFC right now and you ers still talk sh*t about him. I just don't get it....
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BigEvilNerd
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Post by BigEvilNerd on Dec 29, 2008 22:58:29 GMT -5
Even if Brock does beat Mir, all you haters still won't give Brock his due. I mean, he defeated a ing living legend of MMA in Randy Couture for the UFC Heavyweight belt and you guys still tear him down. If you didn't give him his due after he beat Couture, then you sure as hell won't give him his due if he beats Mir. It's like nothing Brock can do is ever good enough. He's at the top of the UFC right now and you ers still talk sh*t about him. I just don't get it.... You gotta calm down and just look at it from the viewpoint of many MMA purists: Brock came in to the MMA game already in the hole respect wise because of his pro wrestling background (the hypocrisy of that hate is another story...see: Sakuraba, Kazushi). But anyway, the galling thing moreso than that was the fact he got a ton of hype and a 'push' as it were on his name alone. I mean take any other heavyweight with a, what, 1 and 0 record, and see how quickly he's making hundreds of G's per pay per view. That breeds disgruntlement among people who have followed the sport for years, and rightly so. Hard working champions and icons of the sport like Randy for instance had to go through a lot to get to the level that they are at, whereas Lesnar got a lot of things handed to him, you have to admit. A UFC main event in his 2nd ever MMA fight, a title fight in his 4th? I don't recall ANYone getting jetted along that fast. The crux of this is the gradual but insidious shift of the sport of MMA from one of a pure sport to one geared more like pro wrestling where the entertainment value and name value of a fight overrides its importance to the rankings and the weight divisions. It's a dangerous, slippery slope to be on, and people are rightly nervous about it. Real contenders get shafted because of a 'boring' performance (i.e. Arlovski after the Werdum fight), and entire divisions get leapfrogged by big names like Lesnar, or sidelined forever because of a reality show gimmick (Serra vs. Hughes).
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Post by axemurderer on Dec 29, 2008 23:00:46 GMT -5
Even if Brock does beat Mir, all you haters still won't give Brock his due. I mean, he defeated a ing living legend of MMA in Randy Couture for the UFC Heavyweight belt ... That like taking a 50yr old Babe Ruth and putting him in a Home Run contest against a 30 yr old Barry Bonds. Sure he is a living legend..but anyone who beats him right now is just putting a name on their record to me...hes FAR past his prime. oh..and learn to read Ill start respecting Brock and giving him his due credit..if he does beat Mir. BIIIIIIG IF. to me, it would be his first quality opponent. matter of fact..read that ENTIRE statement I just made about giving Brock his just due.
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Blehschmidt
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Regal > You
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Post by Blehschmidt on Dec 29, 2008 23:00:46 GMT -5
Brock drops Mir with a punch, goes for his "monkey style" ground and pound, Mir catches the arm, Brock taps like a bitch.
Mir, submission, Armbar, Round 1
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