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Post by Mr. PerpetuaLynch Motion on Jun 8, 2009 15:25:19 GMT -5
Glad you see things our way I think Punk is one of the best talents the WWE has on their roster. He is one of those guys that everyone can really relate to. I mean if I'm watching as casually as possible I see CM Punk, I look at how he dresses, I hear his theme music and I immediately think "Now here's a cool guy" He's just a very relatable character. To see him cash in on Jeff Hardy may have been a little low but seriously, Jeff already had a shot with the belt. CM Punk never actually lost that belt last time he had it. He was just looking for the best chance to take it back and unfortunately it was at the expense of Jeff Hardy having like a 4 minute title reign. Wrong place, wrong time really. Now that Kennedy is gone from the WWE, CM Punk is FIRMLY my favorite wrestler in the company and I'm just happy to see him with the belt. Contrary to what everyone else is saying, in my eyes he really does deserve it.
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Post by jfinnomore on Jun 8, 2009 15:27:15 GMT -5
apples and oranges. the casual ROH fan would know who punk is just as the casual WCW fan would know who Jericho was. You were saying NO ONE deserved that much hardware in 3 years when Jericho got more then Punk has gotten thus far in 2 years so according to your logic, Jericho got it to fast. Except the causal WWE fan, knew who Jericho was before he joined. Hence the HUGE pop he got when he debuted, he developed a character for himself, got over with both that and his ring work. What is CM Punk getting over with? He isn't over... he isn't over enough to get all that crap. He has no character, people like him because of his real life choices and the rest of them like him because they enjoy his matches. Nobody can say they like CM Punk as a person, considering the fact that we never even got to see his personality much on WWE TV. CM Punk is over, he's just not as over as Hardy. If Edge would of won that match and Punk would of cashed in on him the crowd would of went nuts. They've always pushed punk as the straight edge indy wrestler so thats his gimmick. If you recall his beef with Orton he had a promo about how he worked to get where he was and didn't have it handed to him by his daddy. Either way you're just picking on Punk cause you don't like him, which is fine but either way he deserves everything he's gotten and he will continue to get titles.
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Post by Jimmy on Jun 8, 2009 15:27:50 GMT -5
and medicore ringskills. ... Please, STOP presenting this as anything more than your own opinion. It is not at all a fact. I imagine you think ing Ken Kennedy has more talent than someone who put on a classic hour long match with Samoa Joe? Or do you also think Umaga is better than Joe?
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Post by Hammersmith Hardman on Jun 8, 2009 15:29:38 GMT -5
Except the causal WWE fan, knew who Jericho was before he joined. Hence the HUGE pop he got when he debuted, he developed a character for himself, got over with both that and his ring work. What is CM Punk getting over with? He isn't over... he isn't over enough to get all that crap. He has no character, people like him because of his real life choices and the rest of them like him because they enjoy his matches. Nobody can say they like CM Punk as a person, considering the fact that we never even got to see his personality much on WWE TV. They've always pushed punk as the straight edge indy wrestler so thats his gimmick. ... This is the WWE. Should of gave him another gimmick then.
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Post by sxexhxc on Jun 8, 2009 15:34:31 GMT -5
and medicore ringskills. ... Please, STOP presenting this as anything more than your own opinion. It is not at all a fact. I imagine you think ing Ken Kennedy has more talent than someone who put on a classic hour long match with Samoa Joe? Or do you also think Umaga is better than Joe? Obviously it is my opinion, jerkoff. If I want to think Umaga is better than Joe, I can. Atleast he doesn't look like a toolbag with paint smudged over his face... But anyways, I'm not getting into silly TNA vs WWE arguments. You like what you like. Kennedy had more than Punk had, including mic time and overness. Punk has no mic time and no character, Kennedy had. That is not an opinion, it is a fact. Who is better, is up to you, but you cannot deny that Punk has had no character, whatsoever to get over with the WWE Audience. And if you cannot get over with the WWE audience, you should NOT be seen everytime you're on screen with either a title or a briefcase in your hand.
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Post by Flyrfn144 on Jun 8, 2009 15:36:11 GMT -5
I like Punk, and if this reign is done right, it could do wonders for him, especially in building him into a credible main eventer. His reign last year was very lackluster, so this could be just what the doctor ordered.
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Post by jfinnomore on Jun 8, 2009 15:36:41 GMT -5
Please, STOP presenting this as anything more than your own opinion. It is not at all a fact. I imagine you think ing Ken Kennedy has more talent than someone who put on a classic hour long match with Samoa Joe? Or do you also think Umaga is better than Joe? Obviously it is my opinion, jerkoff. If I want to think Umaga is better than Joe, I can. Atleast he doesn't look like a toolbag with paint smudged over his face... But anyways, I'm not getting into silly TNA vs WWE arguments. You like what you like. Kennedy had more than Punk had, including mic time and overness. Punk has no mic time and no character, Kennedy had. That is not an opinion, it is a fact. Who is better, is up to you, but you cannot deny that Punk has had no character, whatsoever to get over with the WWE Audience. And if you cannot get over with the WWE audience, you should NOT be seen everytime you're on screen with either a title or a briefcase in your hand. but he IS over. I fail to see how you keep saying he isn't. He gets a large pop when he comes out and when he won MITB he also got a huge ovation. He didn't get a pop last night due to him beating Hardy who with Rey are little kids favorites.
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"Jefe"
Superstar
you go get that beautiful pig
Joined on: Apr 16, 2008 20:15:53 GMT -5
Posts: 534
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Post by "Jefe" on Jun 8, 2009 15:36:44 GMT -5
I think punk is certainly good in the ring and against the right opponents like Edge, Morrison and not Umaga, although he is athletic certainly talented but his offense much like Show, Kane and Khali is always the same whereas Punk can vary it due the fact he wont always be booked as a big bumbling fool.
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Post by y2jsucks on Jun 8, 2009 15:37:32 GMT -5
That did not sound like little kids booing him last night.
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Post by jfinnomore on Jun 8, 2009 15:39:16 GMT -5
That did not sound like little kids booing him last night. either way Im not gonna say Punk is more over then Hardy cause we all know Jeff is one of the top 3 guys on the roster when it comes to getting over with the fans. However if Edge won that match and Punk cashed in on him I'm sure the crowd would of loved it.
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Post by sxexhxc on Jun 8, 2009 15:40:24 GMT -5
Obviously it is my opinion, jerkoff. If I want to think Umaga is better than Joe, I can. Atleast he doesn't look like a toolbag with paint smudged over his face... But anyways, I'm not getting into silly TNA vs WWE arguments. You like what you like. Kennedy had more than Punk had, including mic time and overness. Punk has no mic time and no character, Kennedy had. That is not an opinion, it is a fact. Who is better, is up to you, but you cannot deny that Punk has had no character, whatsoever to get over with the WWE Audience. And if you cannot get over with the WWE audience, you should NOT be seen everytime you're on screen with either a title or a briefcase in your hand. but he IS over. I fail to see how you keep saying he isn't. He gets a large pop when he comes out and when he won MITB he also got a huge ovation. He didn't get a pop last night due to him beating Hardy who with Rey are little kids favorites. He didn't get any reaction in the Umaga match either... there was like 80,000 in attendence at Wrestlemania, who says they were rooting for Punk? From what I heard (and this was from a guy who was in attendence), they wanted Christian and MVP to win the most. He is over, but he isn't over ENOUGH to get all he has won. Why do people not get that? He has not done anything in WWE apart from win titles that he shouldn't have won without the decent ammount of mictime to show off his personality more.
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Post by v/\v on Jun 8, 2009 15:40:45 GMT -5
Punk got boos when he won MITB.
(The crowd) Nothing macho or cool. They booed because they didn't think he should win.
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Post by sxexhxc on Jun 8, 2009 15:42:02 GMT -5
That did not sound like little kids booing him last night. either way Im not gonna say Punk is more over then Hardy cause we all know Jeff is one of the top 3 guys on the roster when it comes to getting over with the fans. However if Edge won that match and Punk cashed in on him I'm sure the crowd would of loved it. Then why didn't they boo, when he cashed in on Jeff? It's because hes as bland as a dishcloth and isn't over enough to get the title. He should have cashed in clean at Jeff on Summerslam and then won. Maybe he wouldn't have been dancing around like a tool, with no crowd response .
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Post by sxexhxc on Jun 8, 2009 15:42:39 GMT -5
Punk got boos when he won MITB. (The crowd) Nothing macho or cool. They booed because they didn't think he should win. Yep... I was certaintly booing him...
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Post by jfinnomore on Jun 8, 2009 15:43:24 GMT -5
either way Im not gonna say Punk is more over then Hardy cause we all know Jeff is one of the top 3 guys on the roster when it comes to getting over with the fans. However if Edge won that match and Punk cashed in on him I'm sure the crowd would of loved it. Then why didn't they boo, when he cashed in on Jeff? It's because hes as bland as a dishcloth and isn't over enough to get the title. He should have cashed in clean at Jeff on Summerslam and then won. Maybe he wouldn't have been dancing around like a tool, with no crowd response . whatever you say. this is just setting up punk for a heel turn which should be interesting. i'm looking forward to see what direction they are gonna take this.
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Post by Hammersmith Hardman on Jun 8, 2009 15:43:26 GMT -5
either way Im not gonna say Punk is more over then Hardy cause we all know Jeff is one of the top 3 guys on the roster when it comes to getting over with the fans. However if Edge won that match and Punk cashed in on him I'm sure the crowd would of loved it. Then why didn't they boo, when he cashed in on Jeff? It's because hes as bland as a dishcloth and isn't over enough to get the title. He should have cashed in clean at Jeff on Summerslam and then won. Maybe he wouldn't have been dancing around like a tool, with no crowd response . LMFAO!
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Post by y2jsucks on Jun 8, 2009 15:43:42 GMT -5
That did not sound like little kids booing him last night. either way Im not gonna say Punk is more over then Hardy cause we all know Jeff is one of the top 3 guys on the roster when it comes to getting over with the fans. However if Edge won that match and Punk cashed in on him I'm sure the crowd would of loved it. Yeah, of course they would have. Because he would have been doing it to a heel. WHICH WOULD HAVE MADE SENSE.
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Post by Quanthor on Jun 8, 2009 15:44:20 GMT -5
I find that to be the same BS excuses I've been hearing for a long LONG time now. The WWE are very saavy businessmen, they are going to put what sells first over what they are building for the future. That's the way it always has been and has always worked for them. They weren't going to slot Punk over Cena just like they didn't slot Bret Hart over Hogan. Hogan sold, Bret while popular didn't and that's the same case with Punk/Cena. The problem is, Punk didn't expand his fan base despite being champ. He had the same smarky group cheering for him during his regin as he did when he first debuted for the WWE. Wrestling is about putting asses in seats, as a businessman how could you give anymore time than what they did if Punk was failing to do his job as an entertainer? It's not entirely up to the E, superstars have to take chances, all the great ones have and so far Punk hasn't. I gave you the DX example, that was all Triple H and HBK not the WWE. Punk needs to step up and sell himself better. Whether it's a one liner, catchphrase, a motion in the ring, facial expression -ANYTHING will do because he can't continue to do nothing and expect his popularity to rise. The only excuse I will listen to is that he just wasn't ready or just isn't the right man for their future. I don't hate the man, I find him average but I'm more or less just tired of the vast majority of the excuses. This is his second opportunity at top on a show with less competition. It's put up or shut up time for Punk, if he fails this time it's not on the WWE - it's on him. Are you ing kidding me with that DX example? Yeah, they got over huge, because RUSSO wrote them to go out there every other segment and do cool guy stuff. It is not up to CM Punk to say "HEY VINCE TURN ME HEEL YOU bunghole AND LET ME BEAT EVERYBODY UP ALL THE TIME". Yeah guys get over naturally by what they do, and that's WHY Punk is as popular as he is. Remember how badly the fans wanted him to win the ECW Title after only a year in the promotion? And your Hogan/Hart example explains a lot about your opinion. Hogan getting priority over Hart in 1993 was bull sh*t, they did the same thing to Punk that they did with Bret. They pulled the trigger on Bret but 5 months in (without any ratings or buyrate dips) they put the title back on Hogan and bury Bret under Hogan. At some point you have to take a risk, and Hart and Punk are the kind of guys that fans like even though they're not jacked up monsters. It's not an opinion Jimmy, it's straight fundamental business ethics. I don't necessarily agree with the WWE, but I understand why they did what they did. Hogan sold millions more than Bret did, that's an undeniable fact. Go back and throw WMIX into your player and watch the crowd reactions for Bret vs Hogan and you will see what I'm talking about. If the fans wanted Bret more(not the hardcore types but the casual) Bret would have gotten a bigger pop. That goes for anybody too. DX wasn't just Russo, the wrestlers put a lot of imput into what happened out there. They still do, maybe not in terms of booking matches(sometimes that is the case) or writing storylines but they damn sure give imput into what goes into their persona unless that is of course they lack creativity and at that point the WWE usually assigns them some stupid gimmick. Edge, JBL(I know he's gone now), Jericho, Triple H, ect., have all crafted their own persona and probably write the majority of their promos. We give them credit all the time, but why can't we blame a star for a lackluster personality? The WWE is the easy scapegoat for everything and more often than not they deserve it, but the WWE rarely if ever makes mistakes on pushing a superstar. There's only a few that I can think of that went on to become more famous after leaving the WWE. They more often than not make the right decisions for thier company and if they didn't they wouldn't be where they are today. People can bith all they want that they push Cena to the moon and sh*t on Punk or whoever the flavor of the month is, but until they can prove they are more marketable they will always be second class superstars. I still think they done more for Punk than any other superstar in the last two years and yet Punk has done very little for them and people blame the WWE. Give me one superstar who has accomplished more than Punk has (title wise) in the last two years? ECW champ and the face of that brand MITB winner WHC holder Tag title holder IC holder MITB winner, again WHC holder, again They have given him the world and the time to build a massive fan base or to do anything remotely memorable, so part of the responsibility has to rest on the superstar and not on the E.
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"Jefe"
Superstar
you go get that beautiful pig
Joined on: Apr 16, 2008 20:15:53 GMT -5
Posts: 534
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Post by "Jefe" on Jun 8, 2009 15:44:46 GMT -5
They booed because they wanted Christian to win and although Christian was in wwe for a while before coming back two months before mania punk although not my first choice(big up benjamin) was ok as long as they pushed him right which they havent lumbering him with umaga and kane boring.
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Post by hbk4champ on Jun 8, 2009 15:45:46 GMT -5
CM Punk isn't over in the slightest and just got stale, fast. He's definatly the next John Cena (aweful moveset, gets booed alot) but atleast his fans arn't in denial. Why is it all CM Punk fans think he's so great and will not take crapabout him from anyone.
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