wakeman
Superstar
Joined on: Sept 18, 2005 1:47:05 GMT -5
Posts: 936
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Post by wakeman on Jun 23, 2009 16:39:59 GMT -5
I have nothing against Emmitt Smith. He was a great player. But your argument seems to be that the guy with the best stats must be the best, no matter how long they played. So, my question is, is Emmitt Smith the best RB ever since he has the most rushing yards? I would say no. Emmitt Smith had everything you could want in a running back... I definitely think he's in the conversation for best running back ever, though there are a few guys who I could understand people arguing are better... Nevertheless, Smith is top-5, without any question. Anyone who would say otherwise, quite frankly, has absolutely no f'n idea what they're talking about. If you'd like to argue about Emmitt Smith, though, please make a new topic; so I can own you there, as well. You haven't "owned" anyone. You're obviously a regular in this place with your 45,000 plus posts, so everyone jumps on your side and I look like some delusional idiot, yet no one knows a thing about me. I'll talk football with you any day you want. I like to talk about sports in general with anyone, rather than argue about it, which is one of the reasons I came here. Never meant to get on anyone's bad side.
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Post by heartbreakkid2k3 on Jun 23, 2009 16:42:32 GMT -5
Here's the thing. You're fairly new, so you don't really know yet.
Kliquid is basically this board's football God. Kliq is the most knowledgable, reputable, and reliable sources for football information on this board. He's proven time and time again that he knows football. It has nothing to do with post counts.
So, just stick around. You'll learn.
P.S. He also has amazing taste in music. Ask him about that, too.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 23, 2009 16:47:45 GMT -5
If you're going to argue football with me, at least come with some factual information that's not a bunch of B.S.
That entire article was filled with mis-information.
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wakeman
Superstar
Joined on: Sept 18, 2005 1:47:05 GMT -5
Posts: 936
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Post by wakeman on Jun 23, 2009 16:53:03 GMT -5
Perhaps the article was a stupid thing to put in here, it was the first thing I found. And again, I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I don't need to "learn" football or anything from anyone. I know as much football as anyone. I recently won a trivia contest in my hometown for some cash, but I'm sure no one here is gonna believe that. I'm not fairly new, I've been a member of this forum for years, I just don't normally talk sports.
I came in here and saw the topic on QBs and then Kilquid had to come insure that I knew he was the most knowledgable football guy on planet Earth. Trust me man, I know plenty of football, a JBL is poopyload of football actually, I'm not the idiot you think I am. I just had an opinion and wasn't backing away from it, just as you wouldn't back away from yours.
Difference being everyone jumped on your side. I have my own website where it's the same way. I could say John Elway was the best athlete to ever play professional sports and everyone who is a member of my site would go around repeating it, true or not.
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Post by captain master talbot on Jun 23, 2009 17:15:38 GMT -5
PLEASE
we all know the best RB ever is Tiki Barber.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 23, 2009 17:54:21 GMT -5
If you weren't providing incorrect information and ridiculous comments, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Other people have said Favre, Montana, Young, Manning... I'm fine with that. It's not your opinion that I have a problem with - you can say Elway is the best ever all you want - it's the way you presented it. Saying that Elway "performed when it mattered" and such, despite him being one of the most trash Superbowl QB's ever. Then you claim Brady is a "product of the system" despite no other QB being successful in the same system. If you're going to try to discredit my opinions, then yeah, I'm going to defend them and explain why what you're saying isn't true. PLEASE we all know the best RB ever is Tiki Barber. Hey, I think Tiki is a lot closer to the top than most people do. Aside from scoring touchdowns (which he did do, just not as much as others), he was pretty much that team's entire offense for the good part of 7 years.
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Post by captain master talbot on Jun 23, 2009 17:56:10 GMT -5
I was being sarcastic.
But Tiki was the man.
Until 2 years ago.
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wakeman
Superstar
Joined on: Sept 18, 2005 1:47:05 GMT -5
Posts: 936
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Post by wakeman on Jun 23, 2009 20:00:53 GMT -5
If you weren't providing incorrect information and ridiculous comments, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Other people have said Favre, Montana, Young, Manning... I'm fine with that. It's not your opinion that I have a problem with - you can say Elway is the best ever all you want - it's the way you presented it. Saying that Elway "performed when it mattered" and such, despite him being one of the most trash Superbowl QB's ever. Then you claim Brady is a "product of the system" despite no other QB being successful in the same system. If you're going to try to discredit my opinions, then yeah, I'm going to defend them and explain why what you're saying isn't true. PLEASE we all know the best RB ever is Tiki Barber. Hey, I think Tiki is a lot closer to the top than most people do. Aside from scoring touchdowns (which he did do, just not as much as others), he was pretty much that team's entire offense for the good part of 7 years. Ok, I guess I didn't mean to discredit your opinion, but I'd hardly say Matt Cassell wasn't successful. Yeah, they didn't make the playoffs, but that's only because of the way the playoff system is set up. They were definitely a playoff caliber team. Cassell has been rewarded with a very nice contract and was one of the most sought after players in the offseason. We now have Josh McDaniels as our head coach who says himself he doesn't need a superstar to run the offense. By the way, the Broncos will be installing the same offense New England runs. And I'll go out and say right now that Kyle Orton will be a very efficient QB in that offense. So if by success, you mean winning the Super Bowl, then no, no one else has been successful. But I thought Cassell filled in admirably and the reason they didn't make the playoffs was definitely not Matt Cassell. Onto the Elway thing. When I said he came through when it mattered, I was referring to all the games HE pulled out. You never felt a game was over with Elway as your QB. How important was he to our team? After back to back Super Bowl wins and DOMINATING 1998 season, he retired. We went 6-10 with Brian Griese with virtually the exact same team that won 2 Super Bowls. Yes, Terrell Davis went down with injury but evem with him, the Broncos were not the same without Elway. A far cry from New England's 11-5 record last year after Brady's season ending injury on opening day. I know a guy who lives in Boston and I talk to him all the time. He's the biggest Patriots fan I know. Even he says anyone can come in there and run that offense. Maybe not as well as Brady, but he wasn't a bit concerned having Cassel in there last year.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Jun 23, 2009 20:04:59 GMT -5
Only thing I ever owned Kliquid in over football was him saying the Dolphins were going to be better than the Patriots in 2007....or 2006...well regardless, I won that one
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 23, 2009 20:46:55 GMT -5
Only thing I ever owned Kliquid in over football was him saying the Dolphins were going to be better than the Patriots in 2007....or 2006...well regardless, I won that one You did. But it was in '06, certainly not '07. If I said it in '07, I might have to leave because of shame. In fact, when the Patriots got Moss, I believe I said, "Time to set some records," because, as you know, I'm a Moss-o-holic. But if I remember correctly, I didn't exactly predict that the Dolphins would be better than the Patriots; but rather that they had a chance to be. I believe it was MD who was going around saying they Dolphins were going to win the division (go figure). Either way, though, you were right. Ok, I guess I didn't mean to discredit your opinion, but I'd hardly say Matt Cassell wasn't successful. Yeah, they didn't make the playoffs, but that's only because of the way the playoff system is set up. You're still talking about a team going from an undefeated regular season, to losing 5 regular season games. The Patriots also failed to score 20 points 7 times in '08... In '07, they scored 20+ points every week. Like it or not, the difference is significant... And the only major change was a lack of Tom Brady. I've always been the first to say that no player wins a game single-handily for a team, but Brady certainly could have been the difference in at least a few of those losses. Specifically the Indianapolis loss. They were definitely a playoff caliber team. Cassell has been rewarded with a very nice contract and was one of the most sought after players in the offseason. Definitely. I'm not trying to discredit that team... I'm simply saying that you can't look at Tom Brady and say he's a "product of the system" when another guy steps into the same system with the same weapons and throws 29 less touchdowns, more interceptions, and loses 5 more games... It's just a preposterous thing to say. We now have Josh McDaniels as our head coach who says himself he doesn't need a superstar to run the offense. By the way, the Broncos will be installing the same offense New England runs. And I'll go out and say right now that Kyle Orton will be a very efficient QB in that offense. So if by success, you mean winning the Super Bowl, then no, no one else has been successful. But I thought Cassell filled in admirably and the reason they didn't make the playoffs was definitely not Matt Cassell. I don't think Orton will be terrible... Fantasy-wise, I think he could actually be a decent choice; but I still think he's going to turn the ball over too much. Especially if he doesn't have Brandon Marshall to throw to. Cassel wasn't the reason the Patriots missed the playoffs. The AFC East got better as a whole, which helped contribute to it; but there's really no denying that Brady would've been MORE successful than Cassel, and likely would've brought that same team to the playoffs. Onto the Elway thing. When I said he came through when it mattered, I was referring to all the games HE pulled out. You never felt a game was over with Elway as your QB. How important was he to our team? Elway absolutely was great, he's one of the best comeback artists in NFL history. I just wouldn't go so far as to say he's the best ever when he played miserably in the Superbowl. If Elway was on a team that lost the Superbowl, but he threw for 300 yards, 2 touchdowns, and 0 INT's; I wouldn't put the blame on him whatsoever. Other people might, but I'm not the kind of person that thinks a QB should be given all the credit, nor all the blame on the result of a game... But what Elway did in the 5 Superbowls he played in, for the most part, was embarrassing. I guarantee you that those three Superbowls before he finally won one were the single most embarrassing moments of his career. I'm glad he eventually did win one (two actually), because if he didn't; I can imagine his life being a living hell -- and I wouldn't wish that upon him, even if he is a drunken, stuck-up piece of sh*t. After back to back Super Bowl wins and DOMINATING 1998 season, he retired. The Broncos dominated the '98 season (well, kind of -- the Vikings were probably actually the best team that year); but let's be honest here... John Elway didn't "dominate" that year. If 2,806 yards, 22 touchdowns, and 10 interceptions is "dominating," then I guess Eli Manning dominated in 2008, too. We went 6-10 with Brian Griese with virtually the exact same team that won 2 Super Bowls. Yes, Terrell Davis went down with injury but evem with him, the Broncos were not the same without Elway. LMAO, I love the "Yes, Terrell Davis went down" comment. Hello? Anyone in there? You don't think a guy that compiled 2,000 rushing yards and scored 23 touchdowns the year before was at all important? I know a guy who lives in Boston and I talk to him all the time. He's the biggest Patriots fan I know. Even he says anyone can come in there and run that offense. Maybe not as well as Brady, but he wasn't a bit concerned having Cassel in there last year. Well if missing the playoffs and scoring 180 less points in the regular season is "not a bit concerning," then he must have low expectations for his team.
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Post by captain master talbot on Jun 23, 2009 20:51:54 GMT -5
If 2,806 yards, 22 touchdowns, and 10 interceptions is "dominating," then I guess Eli Manning dominated in 2008, too. God damn right he did.
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wakeman
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Joined on: Sept 18, 2005 1:47:05 GMT -5
Posts: 936
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Post by wakeman on Jun 23, 2009 20:56:10 GMT -5
To be 100% honest, I used my first round pick in fantasy last year on none other than Tom Brady. My best friend sitting right across from me from the draft said "I better not hear you talk anymore crapabout him now". I've never taken a QB in the first round, but it was hard to argue with his numbers from the year before. So I was very disappointed to see him go down in game 1. Would the Pats have made the playoffs if he didn't get hurt? I don't think there's any doubt about that. You bring up the Indy game but the OT game with the Jets is another one they would've won if he was in there.
T.D.'s injury in the 1999 season was huge, but the second Elway retired and we had to turn to Griese, everyone knew there was no chance of a 3 peat and with the team we had, that was the only thing that would suffice.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 23, 2009 20:58:51 GMT -5
Griese is terrible, you're right... It certainly wasn't a good player to turn to. But I'd still rather have Griese + Terrell Davis than John Elway + Orlandis Gary.
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wakeman
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Joined on: Sept 18, 2005 1:47:05 GMT -5
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Post by wakeman on Jun 23, 2009 21:07:26 GMT -5
Griese is terrible, you're right... It certainly wasn't a good player to turn to. But I'd still rather have Griese + Terrell Davis than John Elway + Orlandis Gary. That's a tough one, cause Gary ran for 1,159 yards in relief of TD with 7 scores. Back then, you really could stick anyone in the Bronco backfield and find success. Mike Anderson was the same way.
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 23, 2009 23:35:47 GMT -5
None of them ran for 2,000 yards and scored 23 touchdowns.
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McKelly
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 14, 2008 16:01:44 GMT -5
Posts: 1,162
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Post by McKelly on Jun 24, 2009 0:09:26 GMT -5
We all know that the best running back is Priest Holmes.
[/thread]
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Post by Kody on Jun 24, 2009 21:28:16 GMT -5
*cough*adrianpeterson*cough*
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McKelly
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 14, 2008 16:01:44 GMT -5
Posts: 1,162
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Post by McKelly on Jun 25, 2009 0:02:16 GMT -5
Can't complain about that, he is my favorite RB.
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Hitman Bono
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by Hitman Bono on Jun 30, 2009 3:41:29 GMT -5
Griese is terrible, you're right... It certainly wasn't a good player to turn to. But I'd still rather have Griese + Terrell Davis than John Elway + Orlandis Gary. Asinine! Sammy Winder (< Orlandis Gary) was horrible and yet still played in 3 (!) Super Bowls... you'd think "WF's Resident NFL God" wouldn't make comments like the one above... no offense but please; Elway carried mediocre teams to AFC championship after AFC championship without a gimmick Offense (See - Buffalo Bills) and without a 4.0 average Running Back... TD, who is one of the best Running Backs in history did have one of the best O-Lines in history as well, along with a Very Good defense... It's stuff like this that make me wish Steve wouldn't have pussed out... imagine the Elway+Davis vs Young+Davis arguments we could be having...
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Post by Kliquid on Jun 30, 2009 9:26:44 GMT -5
Asinine! Sammy Winder (< Orlandis Gary) was horrible and yet still played in 3 (!) Super Bowls... you'd think "WF's Resident NFL God" wouldn't make comments like the one above... no offense but please; Elway carried mediocre teams to AFC championship after AFC championship without a gimmick Offense (See - Buffalo Bills) and without a 4.0 average Running Back... ... Please explain to me what Sammy Winder has to do with this conversation? My entire point is that Elway didn't win a Superbowl until Terrell Davis came along. That, and he played absolutely horribly in almost every Superbowl he played in
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