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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Jan 10, 2010 14:42:58 GMT -5
I am not going to defend Rondo because its just an invitation for a fight here, but I have no idea how you can be a talented player and not shoot FT's properly, he shoots them like his thumbs are backwards, I can understand Howard and Shaq and the big guys, but a talented pg? I mean his FG% is almost as high as his FT%, thats awful
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Post by extreme on Jan 10, 2010 18:46:04 GMT -5
finally the hornets are getting their craptogether.
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Post by user9327 on Jan 10, 2010 19:56:19 GMT -5
I'll admit, again, that Rondo has improved and has some game to him.
But, he's not a good freaking point guard for crying out loud. He doesn't run set systems consistently, he manages the shot clock horribly, he has all the attributes to benefit from playing with All Stars. My point being, with the way he handles the ball and takes so many risks and is bailed out by good shooters... I just think if he played for the Sixer's or replaced the PG's for Houston or OKC... those team's would all be far worse off.
For all the good Rondo does, he's constantly bailed out by good shooting all stars. He'll be 16 seconds into the shot clock and hasn't even passed yet, so they double him and he finds a wide open 1/4 great spot up shooters.
I'm impressed with him at times, but I still think he's like a top 15 PG in the NBA, if that. I think you gotta give the nod to so many other guys who are leading and doing more for other teams first. It's obvious.
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Post by user9327 on Jan 10, 2010 20:05:22 GMT -5
If fairness, he does take the load off of Pierce and Allen and allow them to concentrate on scoring and defense, more so than a ball movement PG would be able to
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Jan 10, 2010 20:13:25 GMT -5
He also leads the league in steals, which is impressive, regardless of who he has on his team or what he does offensively.
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Post by spreedom8 on Jan 11, 2010 8:16:13 GMT -5
Wolves and Pacers apparently had Jefferson/Granger trade discussions recently... Shame they fell apart, as both teams clearly need a shakeup and I love the trade for both parties. I really love Indy, but Granger needs to get out of there. That is just about the worst roster in the league also with a horrible coach.
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Post by user9327 on Jan 11, 2010 19:00:23 GMT -5
Both of those guys have yet to do anything except put up numbers on bad teams so that was actually a fair trade and should tell you how meaningless both of their career's have been.
I highly doubt swapping both of their low impact roles on each team would change much except the stat sheets.
If anything Jefferson may have helped the Pacers a bit but nothing immediately significant.
All I've been hearing about Jefferson and Granger for years now... just ain't adding up to anything. Kevin Durant has lapped them both. Hell, at this point Stephen Jackson has meant more to the Bobcats (playing above .500 since he's been there). That's gotta be a pretty big question mark for guys like Jefferson and Granger... if they are Franchise players, when are they gonna change the W-L column? Franchise players don't really need much help to get to .500 ball...
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Post by spreedom8 on Jan 11, 2010 21:31:01 GMT -5
Pretty sure Jefferson and Granger haven't had good team mates yet. Putting their teams' failures solely on them isn't fair, especially considering that they've both been efficient despite opposing defenses loading up on them. If they were both chuckers that would be one thing... But if you put a borderline All Star caliber player next to them on either team, they'd both be right in the thick of things.
Can't go anywhere without talent around you.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Jan 11, 2010 21:37:19 GMT -5
Wolves have talent, Flynn, Love and eventually what they get from Rubio...the Pacers on the other hand have absolutely nothing.
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Post by spreedom8 on Jan 11, 2010 21:37:22 GMT -5
Two salary cap trades:
-Hilton Armstrong to the Kings for a future second (gets the Hornets within $500K of the lux tax line)
-Eduardo Najera to the Mavs for Kris Humphries and Shawne Williams (push this year but saves Dallas approx $7M overall)
I'm expecting deals like this about once or twice a week between now and the Feb. deadline as lux tax teams try to dump guaranteed contracts.
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Post by spreedom8 on Jan 11, 2010 21:41:28 GMT -5
Wolves have talent, Flynn, Love and eventually what they get from Rubio...the Pacers on the other hand have absolutely nothing. That team absolutely can't win with their current roster, especially with the depth in the West. Flynn is a rookie that's about to get moved to the bench and Love's game overlaps with Jefferson's too much for them to be effective together. Al could be putting up 35/15 every night and they'd still stink. |
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Jan 11, 2010 22:06:11 GMT -5
Who is going to push Flynn to the bench? Not Rubio, he will never play in in Minnesota unless hes visiting.
I agree with Al and Love though, one needs to be moved.
The Celtics just can not beat the Hawks, mind you they are an injured team right now but come on!
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Post by user9327 on Jan 12, 2010 0:14:00 GMT -5
Pretty sure Jefferson and Granger haven't had good team mates yet. Putting their teams' failures solely on them isn't fair, especially considering that they've both been efficient despite opposing defenses loading up on them. If they were both chuckers that would be one thing... But if you put a borderline All Star caliber player next to them on either team, they'd both be right in the thick of things. Can't go anywhere without talent around you. I'm gonna start this off with one simple question... what makes Danny Granger any more valuable than Andre Iguodala and Al Jefferson any better than Carlos Boozer or Andrea Bargnani? Right now, nothing. Those players may not be as good, but they are comparable and they've all played on a playoff team as a big part. We're talking about Franchise players though, this has been point point. I don't see it in either of those players at all yet (Jefferson and Granger), not even close. Kevin Garnett had teams playing .500 ball with no team mates, Jason Kidd was going to the Finals with no team mates (where are they all since then?), LeBron, ditto AND as a rookie. Carmelo had Denver in the playoffs for years before going to the conference finals, without any significant all star caliber team mates, Billups got then over the top. I could go on forever... But they still haven't won a damn thing and haven't shown that they can win. The fact still remains that for all the stat filling they've done and all the box scores that look good, all the season averages they've accrued.... they haven't done anything else but lose. Defenses aren't loading up anything these guys shouldn't be able to handle, if they are Franchise players. Single handedly take over the game or make your team mates better, you're a Franchise player. Where's TJ Ford's hot start at point guard for Indy (he was terrible playing with Granger this season)? Where's the off the ball benefit in Minnesota (3 point shooting)? These guys aren't making teams better, not one bit. They're making trades like the Jermaine O'Neal and Kevin Garnett exchanges look like they got the shorter end of the stick when they were supposed to... you know... not be cellar dwellers. Now if we can just get Al Jefferson's contract a lot smaller and sent to Cleveland, then we'd be talking... Edit: this just dawned on me. Calling people Franchise players who aren't really winning games is the exact reason why we have Tracy McGrady today. Remember when he left Toronto for Orlando, led the league in scoring and they won like 14 games? Everybody acted like he had some value or was some Franchise, elite player. I never bought into the T-Mac crap, never have, not once. Because I have not once seen him win. |
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Post by Quanthor on Jan 12, 2010 1:02:23 GMT -5
KG's last two years on the T-wolves only won 33 & 32 games and really, like T-Mac, failed to get out of the first round for several years in the playoffs. It wasn't because KG wasn't a franchise player, it was because you can't win without talent no matter how big of a superstar you are.
There is something to be said about the "franchise" guy though or players you build around. There might be only a handful of players in the league who could really carry a team. Which is why the teams who have a top five caliber player generally walks away with the championship every year. Since there are 30 teams and because there's not enough elite players to go around, a lot of guys get thrusted in a position where they have to carry the load when they would probably be better suited as a second or third option on team with somebody else.
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Post by user9327 on Jan 12, 2010 3:42:32 GMT -5
yes and that's my point... as much as I like Granger and Al Jefferson's abilities, they haven't even made the playoffs or competed.
Kevin Durant is starting to reach a new level as the season grows, Jefferson and Granger could end up like Rashard Lewis... good player but not franchise
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Post by spreedom8 on Jan 12, 2010 8:00:41 GMT -5
I guess I probably don't disagree with any of these points... I particularly agree that right now there are only a handful of true "Franchise" guys that will have their teams in the hunt year after year no matter who surrounds them.
Those guys are Kobe, LeBron, Carmelo, Nowitzki, Howard, Chris Paul, and possibly Chris Bosh. Am I missing anybody?
That said, that doesn't mean you can't win a title with Granger, Jefferson, Boozer, Joe Johnson or Deron Williams as the best player on your team. You just HAVE to surround them with the right players. And I'd argue that so far, none of these players has been given anything close to that kind of opportunity.
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Post by user9327 on Jan 12, 2010 18:45:20 GMT -5
Danny Granger still has a chance to grow into the Franchise player mold, but from what I am used to seeing the longer that takes the less likely it will happen.
Guys like Gerald Wallace and Rashard Lewis were putting up numbers for a while and people kept saying they could be some of the next big guns in the NBA. Today they are good players but they aren't panning out into Franchise.
That's why I worry about Andre Iguodala. As bad as Philly's roster is, they still have some talent there and he's not really getting them anywhere as their best player. He's shown some serious promise in his first few seasons but lately it's like he's just never going to improve.
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Post by spreedom8 on Jan 13, 2010 11:01:45 GMT -5
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Post by bad guy™ on Jan 13, 2010 12:14:03 GMT -5
It was very obvious Kobe was in pain yesterday. I give him props for trying to play through it.
...interesting Clippers game yesterday. Luckily it wasn't anything too serious.
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Post by Tim of thee on Jan 13, 2010 15:00:55 GMT -5
I've been reading rumors that have the Lakers sending Bynum to toronto for Bosh
whaqt do you guys think of this rumor as well as the idea of losing bynum to get bosh
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