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Post by spreedom8 on Nov 7, 2009 21:08:19 GMT -5
They can't use Bird rights on those players in that case. If they start the offseason under the cap, and use that space on free agent players, they would lose those players' Bird rights and have only the MLE to use. And I can tell you for a 100% fact that they won't be able to split the MLE between any two of Harrington, Lee and Nate. They'll be lucky to sign ANY of those three at that price. And I can say with reasonable certainty they won't even have Harrington's rights because he won't have played with the team for two full years.
Also, there's no chance any of those three would take significant enough a discount so they'll all be affordable with LeBron factoring into the Knicks' cap number. Nate and D-Lee will definitely bolt if someone else gives them a bigger deal.
Lastly, Al is happy now because he's The Man on the team. He might be coming in off the bench, but he also frequently leads the team in FGAs and that is the only thing he cares about. If he was on a better team with a reduced role, I can guarantee his level of play will be significantly worse. Sad to say it, because as I said I'm as big a fan of his as anyone.
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Post by user9327 on Nov 7, 2009 22:10:13 GMT -5
I've heard otherwise... that they can retain all of those players because even if they are a FA and the Knicks sign other FA's, they can retain and exceed the cap while resigning players who played the previous season with the team. It's the exception, if they were on your roster previously, you can retain them.
Reguardless, the Knicks paid David Lee an extra few million for this single season than he originally thought and agreed to, and he's said he wants to play his career in NY, as has Al Harrington. Both have gone on the record and said that.
So the Knicks have that to consider, along with LeBron, another FA, and if they can move either Jared Jefferies or Eddy Curry before March, a possible 3rd FA. If that doesn't happen, there's been the long running rumor of Steve Nash signing for the minimum to play with D'Antoni and Lebron.
The point is, the Knicks are looking at adding, WORST CASE, at least 2 big name FA's (that alone is better than Cleveland currently) and bringing back David Lee or Harrington. Best case, 3 FA's, David Lee, Nate or Harrington. Far fetched, but possible. Couple in Danilo with that.
LeBron just saying he'd take a pay cut if talent is already THERE, key word, there.... is scarier. He said this the day after playing the Knicks, who need to keep talent there.
I don't get what you're basing this Al Harrington bashing off of? I've watched him struggle, I've watched him not get the proper shots, I've watched him get benched.... he's the same thing, no negativity. They benched him for Galinari for crying out loud and Al Harrington led the team in scoring last year, and he accepted this by saying "whatever is best for the team."
Right now he might not even be there next year and is facing Free Agency. Essentially being benched could cost him a huge contract. AND he's behaving like an angel, in the worst situation possible, on a losing team. How would getting less touches playing with LeBron be worse than this? I don't get it. His future is also uncertain right now.
But you think based off of the clown system Don Nelson runs in Golden State that has run other players out of town, not only in the current regime, but the early 90's, that Al Harrington is going to become a team cancer on a team with LeBron James. Once again, he's been benched for Danilo Galinari, in his own contract year, and behaved like an angel. I honestly don't know if I've ever seen a player treated more questionably in a contract season? Think about that... this is worse than any situation you're talking about. He could potentially lose contract value, not just touches.
There's no basis for what you're claiming about Al Harrington's character except approaching it with a worst case scenerio. Base it off of current events and reality. He's been a saint in NY in terms of character while facing possibly the worst situation for a potential Free Agent that I've ever seen in my life.
He's been benched for a white guy, dude. He's taking like a team player during his own contract year, putting that in jeopardy. I don't think you can officially say Al Harrington is anywhere near to being a team cancer ever again.
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Post by user9327 on Nov 7, 2009 22:28:14 GMT -5
What is even worse though is....
This time next year there are going to be so many bandwagon Knicks fans. I mean considering, I'm the only Knicks fan on WF right now. That's the reality of it. There has not been one Knicks fan in this thread for SEASONS, besides me. There is NO excuse, period. If you show up now as a Knicks fan, you're pathetic, I'm sorry. There are no Knicks fans on WF, they will be bandwagon fans.
We're all going to be LOLing this time next year at all the Knicks sigs and fans. I'll be pulling my hair out. Telling some fool to name our last 5 point guards or go home.
Also, there's something about being a fan of a really, really, really crappy team like the Knicks. You never have to worry about anything. They suck, they're trash. If they do anything good, it's exciting because they overachieved.
It's like after Eli and the Giants won the Superbowl in 07, they weren't supposed to. Now you gotta worry about them staying respectable, because it feels good.
I still remember very clearly how it felt to be a Knicks fan in the 90's. Sometimes it was worse than it is right now. Because of constantly coming so close so many times, or being shut down by Reggie or Michael Jordan.
In 1994, I thought they had a good chance, twice, in the Finals series. Two games I thought it was really close. To walk away losing, was terrible.
In 1999, I was more or less just proud of the fight that team put up and how they finally got it going. We lost Ewing and LJ during the playoffs and we just weren't going to beat the Spurs like that. Had Ewing been 100%, coupled with Marcus Camby, I think we had a chance.
To watch the Knicks be this awful after all of that... to watch every Knick fan I've known "give up." To go into every sporting good store and see Giants, Jets, Yankees and Mets clothing. To see your own brother not even care about them anymore. I don't care, those people are going to be called out if we're ever celebrating a championship in my lifetime. Because this Knicks drought really has the potential to be the biggest bandwagon of all time.
Sorry for the rant, but I have nothing to cheer for except the thought of next season right now.
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Jamal
Main Eventer
Joined on: Nov 24, 2005 14:53:44 GMT -5
Posts: 4,877
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Post by Jamal on Nov 8, 2009 10:08:03 GMT -5
Okay, I don't know much about the Knicks, but what are are you looking forward to for next year? Are you just trying to be optimistic, or is there something happening that I don't know about?
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Post by extreme on Nov 8, 2009 20:18:06 GMT -5
Okay, I don't know much about the Knicks, but what are are you looking forward to for next year? Are you just trying to be optimistic, or is there something happening that I don't know about? LeBron is a free agent after this season and Knicks are one of, if not the one, of the teams that LeBron will most likely go to if he decides to end his career with the Cavs. |
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 16, 2024 10:58:06 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2009 22:30:13 GMT -5
Well this season officially sucks. Nets are 0-7,and Devin Harris is hurt FML.
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Post by spreedom8 on Nov 8, 2009 23:28:52 GMT -5
I've heard otherwise... that they can retain all of those players because even if they are a FA and the Knicks sign other FA's, they can retain and exceed the cap while resigning players who played the previous season with the team. It's the exception, if they were on your roster previously, you can retain them. As I said, the exception no longer applies if you use all of your cap space on other free agents. The provision is in place if your team is already approaching or above the salary tax. So the Knicks can exceed the cap to resign them, and then sign LeBron for the MLE/LLE, but that's really about it. So in a best case scenario the Knicks have to decide which two of the following to sign (assuming all parties are really after the biggest payday, which is always the case in the NBA with players near or before their primes): David Lee, Nate, Harrington, LeBron, other max FA. Al and David are just saying all of the right things BECAUSE they're in contract years, not in spite of the fact. If I had a nickel for every soon-to-be free agent that said "All I want to do is retire with [insert team name here], and then bolt at the first sign of a bigger payday, I'd be a very rich man. Nash just got locked up this past offseason for another 2 years, so if I'm correct he won't be a FA again until 2012 (38 years old at that point?). See above; per the most recent CBA that first scenario sounds a lot closer to the best case than the worst case. I don't doubt that, but he's still going to get at least a 5 year, 95+ million dollar contract. That's going to put a huge dent in any team's cap space. My basis for Al eventually becoming a malcontent if the Knicks sign more talented players is based off his history in Indiana and Golden State -- as soon as he was asked to play a secondary role he started dogging it on the court. The difference here is that he's in a contract year. If he keeps his words well-chosen this season, he'll get a much bigger payday than he otherwise would if he started bitching about minutes or his role. The way he's acting right now is classic Harrington -- holding his head up high on a crappy team, hoping to score a payday with a playoff contender. Either way, the Knicks are going to have an interesting off-season. But to say they'll keep their 5 best players this off-season and ALSO add two All Star caliber players just isn't realistic. Hell, the only reason they even took on Harrington, and signed Lee and Nate to the 1-year deals, is so they have the option to let all three walk this off-season if a better option (i.e. LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, Kobe, Dirk in that order) comes along. My best bet is they land LeBron and keep Lee, while Al and Nate walk. If that's the case, has LeBron even really gotten into a better situation? |
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Post by user9327 on Nov 9, 2009 0:39:30 GMT -5
Your "best bet" doesn't account for the abundance of cap room they'd still have if you best bet came true... you forgot about a second Free Agent to add to that. If they don't, they'd keep Al Harrington or Nate along with your best bet.
Worst case, 2 big free agents and David Lee, still have Danilo and Toney Douglas... oh noz. Yes, that is better than Cleveland. Mike Brown is also a clown who should have been fired twice already. D'Antoni may not have ever run a successful defense, but his style of play already caters to LeBron.
As for your "Al Harrington is a ticking time bomb theory," once again, this is based off of Golden State. The Indiana situation was before he got any serious playing time/had established himself. He was looking to establish himself in the league. The Golden State situation is something he shares in common with too many players, including Chris Webber and Baron Davis, for me to worry about right now. As of right now Al Harrington has been perfect. Anything else is speculation.
Al Harrington and reality have shown that every thing you are saying, doesn't have a very high probability of occurring. It's all speculation.
I'll admit it's a crack pipe dream to think they are keeping everybody and bringing in LeBron. But this crap about Al Harrington is going to explode if he's playing next to LeBron because he's getting less touches is purely based off of your opinion.
BTW, he was like 12 years old during that situation in Indiana. The guy is in his prime now. Completely different situation.
Right now if you take LeBron off of Cleveland they do not have one player that can match David Lee or Al Harrington. Possibly not even Danilo. Cleveland's roster really is atrocious without LeBron. Anything at this point, is going to be better.
Reguardless, until July 2010, nobody knows what it's going to look like. Not even LeBron.
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Post by spreedom8 on Nov 9, 2009 11:15:44 GMT -5
As for your "Al Harrington is a ticking time bomb theory," once again, this is based off of Golden State. The Indiana situation was before he got any serious playing time/had established himself. He was looking to establish himself in the league. The Golden State situation is something he shares in common with too many players, including Chris Webber and Baron Davis, for me to worry about right now. As of right now Al Harrington has been perfect. Anything else is speculation. Al Harrington and reality have shown that every thing you are saying, doesn't have a very high probability of occurring. It's all speculation. Al has sulked his way out of two teams because they didn't want him to be the #1 option. Actually three, if you include both stints with the Pacers and then last year's trainwreck of a season with GSW. The only two times he's ever been completely happy have been with the Hawks and the Knicks. And he was free to jack up shots at will with both teams. If the Knicks sign LeBron and another All Star, Big Al will have to be AT BEST the 4th option. And every indication from his past is that despite his guaranteed contract, he'll dog it until he gets traded into a situation where he can chuck at will. And as I said, this is coming from a big Al Harrington fan. He's saying and doing a lot of great things in a contract year, but once reality hits and he's only taking 11 shots per game, he's going to relapse. It's a shame, because he's talented enough that he could be a top 30 NBA player. |
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Post by bad guy™ on Nov 9, 2009 13:25:23 GMT -5
I know I'm a couple days late, but that was a good win against the Nets a couple days back. Now we have the Jazz in a couple days. It should be a good one.  ;D |
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WFK
Main Eventer
Leave The Memories Alone
Joined on: Oct 27, 2004 17:56:58 GMT -5
Posts: 4,632
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Post by WFK on Nov 9, 2009 18:03:01 GMT -5
If Allen Iverson really is done I'll be gutted. One of my all time favorites.
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Post by spreedom8 on Nov 9, 2009 18:36:37 GMT -5
Iverson's a turd that needs to be flushed. He's everything that's wrong with the league.
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Post by user9327 on Nov 9, 2009 21:59:15 GMT -5
As for your "Al Harrington is a ticking time bomb theory," once again, this is based off of Golden State. The Indiana situation was before he got any serious playing time/had established himself. He was looking to establish himself in the league. The Golden State situation is something he shares in common with too many players, including Chris Webber and Baron Davis, for me to worry about right now. As of right now Al Harrington has been perfect. Anything else is speculation. Al Harrington and reality have shown that every thing you are saying, doesn't have a very high probability of occurring. It's all speculation. Al has sulked his way out of two teams because they didn't want him to be the #1 option. Actually three, if you include both stints with the Pacers and then last year's trainwreck of a season with GSW. The only two times he's ever been completely happy have been with the Hawks and the Knicks. And he was free to jack up shots at will with both teams. If the Knicks sign LeBron and another All Star, Big Al will have to be AT BEST the 4th option. And every indication from his past is that despite his guaranteed contract, he'll dog it until he gets traded into a situation where he can chuck at will. And as I said, this is coming from a big Al Harrington fan. He's saying and doing a lot of great things in a contract year, but once reality hits and he's only taking 11 shots per game, he's going to relapse. It's a shame, because he's talented enough that he could be a top 30 NBA player. Once again, the Indiana and Golden State situations were both a giant mess themselves that cannot possibly be compared in any way at all to what we are talking about. Seriously, what is similar? Stephen Jackson is literally going through a similar process right now. It's literally impossible to base his future on a potential winning team with LeBron James off of Cellar Dweller situations in which the entire ship was sinking... seriously what logic is there in this? This is also like you saying Al Harrington is incapable of learning anything new or evolving as a person. Current events, depict otherwise... and this possible future event is missing two things from these previous things you take as a prediction of the future; both teams were fizzling out to the bottom of the league, and there was no leadership such as LeBron James. It's like comparing driving a 1989 Cadillac to the 2009 model... then claiming the owner who just upgraded is going to treat the new car like the old one. The new one makes sense... the old one is dying... of course it's not getting a car wash/treated with care. |
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Post by user9327 on Nov 9, 2009 22:08:40 GMT -5
I also just realized...
what you are essentially saying is that if Al Harrington has a chance to win a championship and isn't the number 1 option he's going to become a cancer....
and you're basing this off of...
situations that took place, once when he was like 21, on teams that were among the worst places to play in the entire NBA...
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Post by extreme on Nov 10, 2009 0:35:10 GMT -5
The old steve nash is returning. 21 pts 20 assists. wow.
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Post by spreedom8 on Nov 10, 2009 9:17:13 GMT -5
I also just realized... what you are essentially saying is that if Al Harrington has a chance to win a championship and isn't the number 1 option he's going to become a cancer.... and you're basing this off of... situations that took place, once when he was like 21, on teams that were among the worst places to play in the entire NBA... Basing this mostly off of his attitude during the 02/03 and 03/04 seasons with the Pacers... when the Pacers won 48 and 61 games. The more the team won, the unhappier he got (as the third option on a team that won the most games in the NBA). So I'm basing my prediction on a completely similar situation. You're basing your prediction on what you want to happen. We'll see what happens. |
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Post by T R W on Nov 10, 2009 10:18:03 GMT -5
The old Steve Nash is back because the old Shaq is gone.
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Post by spreedom8 on Nov 10, 2009 11:35:22 GMT -5
The old Steve Nash is back because the old Shaq is gone. Love it.... |
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Post by user9327 on Nov 10, 2009 16:08:43 GMT -5
I also just realized... what you are essentially saying is that if Al Harrington has a chance to win a championship and isn't the number 1 option he's going to become a cancer.... and you're basing this off of... situations that took place, once when he was like 21, on teams that were among the worst places to play in the entire NBA... Basing this mostly off of his attitude during the 02/03 and 03/04 seasons with the Pacers... when the Pacers won 48 and 61 games. The more the team won, the unhappier he got (as the third option on a team that won the most games in the NBA). So I'm basing my prediction on a completely similar situation. You're basing your prediction on what you want to happen. We'll see what happens. \ I'm basing this off of what I want to happen? This makes no sense. You think I want Al Harrington even put in a situation where he's our 4th option? I'm basing this off of what I see happening right now, what has happened and what a logical conclusion is. You're harping on the negatives of situations and ignoring the reality of them. These negatives you speak of, aren't even properly understood. sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3677648first off how does that make any sense? Don Nelson is a clown. Simple as that. That's the same old story he gave Chris Webber. Did Chris Webber go self-destruct in Sacramento, the way your predicting Harrington will? Did you predict in 1994 that Chris Webber would be a career cancer after disagreeing with Don Nelson? Because that's essentially the same thing here. As for this Indiana situation you're talking about, there was no negativity. He wanted to play, what's your point? He wasn't playing. What's your point? That a guy who can average nearly 15-18 points off the bench should continue to do so? Closer to the age of 20 than 30? If that's what you think he should be forced to participate in, then that's your call. But I see a guy who wasn't rotting away on their bench. Rotting. So the basis of your entire prediction is flawed. It has nothing to do with shots, it has to do with wanting a chance to play in Indy, but realistically it wasn't happening. So, Don Nelson took him in and messed with his head, just like Chris Webber, just like Baron Davis and many other players. Go blame Don Nelson. Reality = right now he's not a malcontent, nor was he a serious problem for any of these teams. Don Nelson is a proven problem in situations like this and look at that team since Al Harrington and Baron Davis left... nuf said. How this makes him into a malcontent in your eyes, is up to you. I don't see a problem, I saw a guy in Indiana that didn't want to rot on their bench. Al Harrington left Indiana for a chance to play. Don Nelson screwed and jerked him around and went back on his word and subjected him to being benched... for no apparent reason. Al Harrington is in NY right now facing a similar situation and behaving. Realistically you're approaching this with a negative outlook based off of skewed understandings of what happened with Don Nelson. Don Nelson is a clown. That's the lesson to be learned here. Al Harrington wants to play. Al Harrington put up the numbers, in both times, to deserve to play. Al Harrington was jerked around. As for seeing what happens... my money is still on Al Harrington behaving if he's a part of a team that is a title contender. Reguardless of playing time or shot attempts. I don't see the same 23 year old kid who needs to make a name for himself in this league to survive. I see a guy who wants a championship and likes playing in NY.But after all... I'm not looking at the negatives, like you are. I realize people evolve and don't repeat the same patterns are later ages of life. Not even Rasheed Wallace... |
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Post by user9327 on Nov 10, 2009 16:10:14 GMT -5
PS my take on the Iverson situation is that of course he's being a dick about it but let's get real...
it's Memphis, they suck, they need to sell tickets... and you just saw him unhappy when he went through this same thing in Detroit last year... so you bring him to Memphis... to do the same, exact, thing?
Sounds like Memphis is just as much of a moron in this situation as anyone.
Iverson's best days are done, and he needs to realize this as well. But Memphis just repeated a documented history.
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