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Post by bane on May 11, 2010 23:36:30 GMT -5
Again, already answered your questions about these. Look over the 10 pages. I have already proven Jesus in an angel, that he is not God etc. You gloss over those and keep on repeating some of the same stuff. Jesus never claims to be God. I suppose I can do it again... Could God Be Tempted? AT MATTHEW 4:1, Jesus is spoken of as being “tempted by the Devil.” After showing Jesus “all the kingdoms of the world and their glory,” Satan said: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.” (Matthew 4:8, 9) Satan was trying to cause Jesus to be disloyal to God. But what test of loyalty would that be if Jesus were God? Could God rebel against himself? No, but angels and humans could rebel against God and did. The temptation of Jesus would make sense only if he was, not God, but a separate individual who had his own free will, one who could have been disloyal had he chosen to be, such as an angel or a human. On the other hand, it is unimaginable that God could sin and be disloyal to himself. “Perfect is his activity . . . A God of faithfulness, . . . righteous and upright is he.” (Deuteronomy 32:4) So if Jesus had been God, he could not have been tempted.—James 1:13. Not being God, Jesus could have been disloyal. But he remained faithful, saying: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”—Matthew 4:10. Honestly Bane, I'm kind of done with this topic. I take the time to dissect and intelligently respond to what you post and I'm realizing that all you're doing is copying/pasting from somewhere and I don't think you're even reading it before you do so. When I ask you specific questions, you don't answer then, you just cut/paste a section from where ever. I don't see why I should take the time to look up stuff in my Bible and ask questions if your response is just going to go back to whatever source you're cutting/pasting from and cut/paste more stuff that doesn't even answer any of my questions. What of Paul on the Damascus road? You said that Paul was simply mistaken and who Jesus is was revealed to him after his conversion. Fine, but where's the scripture to back it up? And how come when Paul recounts the story (as he did several times in the Book of Acts) does he recount it nearly exactly as it is in chapter 9. Paul asks "Who are you Jehovah?" The voice replies "I am Jesus." What of Zechariah where Jehovah says that he will be sold for 30 pieces of silver and that He will be pierced? What of John who refers to himself as both the forerunner of Jehovah and the forerunner of Christ? To all of these questions you simply cut/paste something from a website somewhere. You don't even give credit to said site and the site doesn't directly address any of the questions I ask. I've referred over and over and over again to the dual nature of Jesus and how he was both man and God even when this explains so many of your objections (like Jesus being tempted), yet you don't even acknowledge that point and simply cut/paste something that's only semi-relevant. No offense meant, but I'm no longer going to take the time to respond to just stuff that's being copied from other web sites. I have only cut and pasted a few times but EVERYTHING I write you blow off too and don't answer...My first post was Can God die? Habbakuk says he cannot yet Jesus did. You never responded to that either. So it goes both ways doesn't it? Acts 9:9 But Saul, still breathing threat and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, in order that he might bring bound to Jerusalem any whom he found who belonged to The Way, both men and women. 3 Now as he was traveling he approached Damascus, when suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him, 4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him: “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 He said: “Who are you, Lord?” He said: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is PERFECTLY alright in scripture to refer to Jesus as lord. It does not mean he is Jehovah. Psalms 110:1 —What did “[David’s] Lord,” Jesus Christ, do while sitting at God’s right hand? Following his resurrection, Jesus ascended to heaven and waited at God’s right hand until 1914 to begin ruling as King. During that time, Jesus ruled over his anointed followers, guiding them in their preaching and disciple-making work as well as preparing them to rule with him in his Kingdom.—Matthew 24:14; 28:18-20; Luke 22:28-30. Zechariah's prophecy is NOT about Jehovah. It's about Jesus. John doesn't do that. He is the forerunner of Christ. Christ and God have the SAME purpose. Doesn't mean they are the same being.
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Post by peecfeed on May 12, 2010 2:15:04 GMT -5
Why do people argue about religion? I can't bother to go through all 13 pages of this, but I can imagine it just says the same thing that all religion topics do.
Somehow through arguing are you going to change someone else's opinions or beleifs?
I don't get it.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 12, 2010 8:30:07 GMT -5
I have only cut and pasted a few times but EVERYTHING I write you blow off too and don't answer...My first post was Can God die? Habbakuk says he cannot yet Jesus did. You never responded to that either. So it goes both ways doesn't it? I go back to this again. Jesus has a dual nature. As man, he sleeps in a boat. As God he says Peace be still and calms the sea. I've stated this over and over and it resolves all of the conflicts you see in scripture about Jesus. How can Jesus thirst yet he is the living water? How can he forgive sins yet you find him hungry? Easy. He is both God and man. He's not just God, nor is he just man. He is both. A sin is a trespass against God. If Jesus is not God then how can he forgive trespasses against God? Aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd here is where I am tapping out. This is a direct cut/paste from Yahoo answers. It's written by someone named Bubbles about a year ago - answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090611144416AA6iPaZ If I was interested in what Bubbles thought I'd have asked them. And now I'm curious as to what exactly happened in 1914. But back to my point, Saul is/was a devout Jew. A devout Jew would never refer to anyone as Lord except for Jehovah. Ever. What may be acceptable for Christians would not be acceptable to a Jew. Saul recognized (or thought at the very least) that the voice from Heaven and the light surrounding him was Jehovah. Note that the voice did not correct him. It did not say, "I am not Jehovah, but I am Jesus who you are persecuting." It didn't say that or anything like that. Jesus left Saul under the clear impression that he and Jehovah were the same person and Saul repeated this story over and over. Zechariah's prophecy is about Jehovah though. Read it again. The Lord God (Jehovah) says that they weighed his price as 30 pieces of silver. Also, the Lord (Jehovah again) says that they will "look on me who they have pierced." Who was pierced? Jehovah says it will be Him. And if John is the forerunner of Christ, why does Isaiah say that John is preparing the way of the Lord (Jehovah)? Ok. That's my last post on this topic.
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Post by The Champ is Here! on May 12, 2010 9:26:55 GMT -5
Ok. That's my last post on this topic. hard to stay away isn't it? I've had to stop myself from responding several times, as arguing over the internet never gets us anywhere I would ask for BANE to quit saying he proved anything, as he didn't, he just argued his side
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Post by bane on May 12, 2010 11:25:51 GMT -5
I have only cut and pasted a few times but EVERYTHING I write you blow off too and don't answer...My first post was Can God die? Habbakuk says he cannot yet Jesus did. You never responded to that either. So it goes both ways doesn't it? I go back to this again. Jesus has a dual nature. As man, he sleeps in a boat. As God he says Peace be still and calms the sea. I've stated this over and over and it resolves all of the conflicts you see in scripture about Jesus. How can Jesus thirst yet he is the living water? How can he forgive sins yet you find him hungry? Easy. He is both God and man. He's not just God, nor is he just man. He is both. A sin is a trespass against God. If Jesus is not God then how can he forgive trespasses against God? Aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd here is where I am tapping out. This is a direct cut/paste from Yahoo answers. It's written by someone named Bubbles about a year ago - answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090611144416AA6iPaZ If I was interested in what Bubbles thought I'd have asked them. And now I'm curious as to what exactly happened in 1914. But back to my point, Saul is/was a devout Jew. A devout Jew would never refer to anyone as Lord except for Jehovah. Ever. What may be acceptable for Christians would not be acceptable to a Jew. Saul recognized (or thought at the very least) that the voice from Heaven and the light surrounding him was Jehovah. Note that the voice did not correct him. It did not say, "I am not Jehovah, but I am Jesus who you are persecuting." It didn't say that or anything like that. Jesus left Saul under the clear impression that he and Jehovah were the same person and Saul repeated this story over and over. Zechariah's prophecy is about Jehovah though. Read it again. The Lord God (Jehovah) says that they weighed his price as 30 pieces of silver. Also, the Lord (Jehovah again) says that they will "look on me who they have pierced." Who was pierced? Jehovah says it will be Him. And if John is the forerunner of Christ, why does Isaiah say that John is preparing the way of the Lord (Jehovah)? Ok. That's my last post on this topic. Usually people that cannot defend the Trinity DO usually tap out. Thanks for the Yahoo page. There is even more evidence that backs up that Jesus isn't God...Here I will post it some highlights for you. He can't because he isn't. “About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’” (Matthew 27:46). Is he claiming he forsake himself, since Christians believe that Jesus = God? again, “Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will’” (Matthew 26:39). God prays to himself for help? Doesn't make sense Dr. Hulk, you are not the FIRST person on Earth to ask what we believe. Yet you have an overwhelming objection to something cut and pasted because it defeats what you are trying to say. These questions have been asked before with always the same results. Hence the reason for the cut and paste. Did the C and P answer the questions? Sure. You just don't want to acknowledge it is all.
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Deleted
Joined on: Oct 5, 2024 5:29:41 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 11:30:55 GMT -5
I can admit that Jews would have a hard time believing that a man was God, but hey, take a look at the Lubavitchers...they're an ultra-orthodox Chasidic Jewish group, and many believe that their grand leader Menachem Mendel Schneerson, who died in 1994, will return as the Messiah, and I've even seen pages before made by Lubavitchers claiming he was god in the flesh.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 12, 2010 11:40:05 GMT -5
I go back to this again. Jesus has a dual nature. As man, he sleeps in a boat. As God he says Peace be still and calms the sea. I've stated this over and over and it resolves all of the conflicts you see in scripture about Jesus. How can Jesus thirst yet he is the living water? How can he forgive sins yet you find him hungry? Easy. He is both God and man. He's not just God, nor is he just man. He is both. A sin is a trespass against God. If Jesus is not God then how can he forgive trespasses against God? Aaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd here is where I am tapping out. This is a direct cut/paste from Yahoo answers. It's written by someone named Bubbles about a year ago - answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090611144416AA6iPaZ If I was interested in what Bubbles thought I'd have asked them. And now I'm curious as to what exactly happened in 1914. But back to my point, Saul is/was a devout Jew. A devout Jew would never refer to anyone as Lord except for Jehovah. Ever. What may be acceptable for Christians would not be acceptable to a Jew. Saul recognized (or thought at the very least) that the voice from Heaven and the light surrounding him was Jehovah. Note that the voice did not correct him. It did not say, "I am not Jehovah, but I am Jesus who you are persecuting." It didn't say that or anything like that. Jesus left Saul under the clear impression that he and Jehovah were the same person and Saul repeated this story over and over. Zechariah's prophecy is about Jehovah though. Read it again. The Lord God (Jehovah) says that they weighed his price as 30 pieces of silver. Also, the Lord (Jehovah again) says that they will "look on me who they have pierced." Who was pierced? Jehovah says it will be Him. And if John is the forerunner of Christ, why does Isaiah say that John is preparing the way of the Lord (Jehovah)? Ok. That's my last post on this topic. Usually people that cannot defend the Trinity DO usually tap out. Thanks for the Yahoo page. There is even more evidence that backs up that Jesus isn't God...Here I will post it some highlights for you. He can't because he isn't. “About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’” (Matthew 27:46). Is he claiming he forsake himself, since Christians believe that Jesus = God? again, “Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will’” (Matthew 26:39). God prays to himself for help? Doesn't make sense Dr. Hulk, you are not the FIRST person on Earth to ask what we believe. Yet you have an overwhelming objection to something cut and pasted because it defeats what you are trying to say. These questions have been asked before with always the same results. Hence the reason for the cut and paste. Did the C and P answer the questions? Sure. You just don't want to acknowledge it is all. You lured me back just because you accused me of being a Trinitarian. I am not a Trinitarian. Nor do I believe in the Trinity. Nor am I trying to defend the Trinity in any way shape or form. Don't accuse me of being a Trinitarian. I've made this point over and over and over and over and over again. Jesus is both God and man. He has a dual nature. He's one person, but has two natures. He's fully God and fully man. If you don't accept this, then you can't reconcile all of the scriptures in the Bible where Jesus claims to be God and all the scriptures where Jesus is clearly human. In the example you used, the flesh (human nature) is praying to the spirit (the Godly nature). Rejecting the deity of Christ makes no sense Biblically. If Christ is not God, then how does he forgive sins? Why are baptisms done in his name? Why are we told that every knee shall bow to him? Why is he called the Almighty in Revelation? Why is he the only one seen sitting on the throne in Heaven? How does he have all power in heaven and earth? What of his claim to be God? Is he lying when he says that he is the I AM or is he simply mistaken? I'd bring up Zechariah again, but you won't respond to it. You're probably still looking for something to cut/paste as a response to it. I'm asking what you believe, not what someone on some random Yahoo answers page believes. I'm sorry, but if I go to a doctor and he hands me a book explaining why I'm sick, I'm not interested. I want the doc to explain it. If a mechanic tells me my car is broken I don't want some literature explaining why. If I wanted to know what a google search would turn up, I'd have done one. Stop cutting and pasting and actually answer some of my questions. Instead of cutting/pasting something that is semi-related, actually take the time to directly respond.
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Post by Greg Weinstein on May 12, 2010 12:06:14 GMT -5
Free-thinker. Can't argue about that.
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Post by bane on May 12, 2010 18:24:08 GMT -5
Usually people that cannot defend the Trinity DO usually tap out. Thanks for the Yahoo page. There is even more evidence that backs up that Jesus isn't God...Here I will post it some highlights for you. He can't because he isn't. “About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’” (Matthew 27:46). Is he claiming he forsake himself, since Christians believe that Jesus = God? again, “Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will’” (Matthew 26:39). God prays to himself for help? Doesn't make sense Dr. Hulk, you are not the FIRST person on Earth to ask what we believe. Yet you have an overwhelming objection to something cut and pasted because it defeats what you are trying to say. These questions have been asked before with always the same results. Hence the reason for the cut and paste. Did the C and P answer the questions? Sure. You just don't want to acknowledge it is all. You lured me back just because you accused me of being a Trinitarian. I am not a Trinitarian. Nor do I believe in the Trinity. Nor am I trying to defend the Trinity in any way shape or form. Don't accuse me of being a Trinitarian. I've made this point over and over and over and over and over again. Jesus is both God and man. He has a dual nature. He's one person, but has two natures. He's fully God and fully man. If you don't accept this, then you can't reconcile all of the scriptures in the Bible where Jesus claims to be God and all the scriptures where Jesus is clearly human. In the example you used, the flesh (human nature) is praying to the spirit (the Godly nature). Rejecting the deity of Christ makes no sense Biblically. If Christ is not God, then how does he forgive sins? Why are baptisms done in his name? Why are we told that every knee shall bow to him? Why is he called the Almighty in Revelation? Why is he the only one seen sitting on the throne in Heaven? How does he have all power in heaven and earth? What of his claim to be God? Is he lying when he says that he is the I AM or is he simply mistaken? I'd bring up Zechariah again, but you won't respond to it. You're probably still looking for something to cut/paste as a response to it. I'm asking what you believe, not what someone on some random Yahoo answers page believes. I'm sorry, but if I go to a doctor and he hands me a book explaining why I'm sick, I'm not interested. I want the doc to explain it. If a mechanic tells me my car is broken I don't want some literature explaining why. If I wanted to know what a google search would turn up, I'd have done one. Stop cutting and pasting and actually answer some of my questions. Instead of cutting/pasting something that is semi-related, actually take the time to directly respond. Alright you are not a Trinitarian, but a Duelist? ;D I fully believe what the "random" Yahoo page said. They are my fellow brothers there. Witnesses of Jehovah. I believe strongly what I have cutted and pasted. I have already posted pages of information about the duality of Christ. How he cannot be God. When someone comes in someone elses name, sometimes you can say in that person's name. Jesus comes in Jehovah's name, doesn't make him God though. Like a delegate representating another country. He is not the President, just a delegate. Jesus is that. Your questions.... Christians themselves can forgive sins.. So why can't Christ? Luke 17:. 3 Pay attention to yourselves. If your brother commits a sin give him a rebuke, and if he repents forgive him. 4 Even if he sins seven times a day against you and he comes back to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.” So THIS question is answered is it not? Question 2: Acts 22:16 states: “And now why are you delaying? Rise, get baptized and wash your sins away by your calling upon his name.” Not by mere water immersion, but by calling on his name are sins washed away. Cornelius called on Jehovah’s name and he accepted Christ Jesus and was baptized by holy spirit. For this to happen his sins must have been forgiven, yet it was all before he was baptized in water. If one repents and accepts Christ and trusts in His shed blood one’s sins can be forgiven. Water immersion in Jesus’ name is important, but only as a symbol and public demonstration of repentance of sins and acceptance of Jesus and dedication to do Jehovah’s will faithfully, as Jesus did. Question 3: Where in the bible are you refering to? Question 4: Where does it call in the bible Jesus Almighty God? Question 5: Sitting alone on throne in heaven? 1 Corinthians 15:. 23 But each one in his own rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. 24 Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. Jesus is in power ONLY to fix the world...After the 1,000 years he hands it back over to his father. Quite obvious from the scripture above. So he is only King for a limited time. Question 6: He never claimed to be God. I and the father are one I have already discussed. He wished the disciples were one when he said that but they didn't join into one person did they? Question 7: Jesus doesn't lie...Is Jesus the I AM? The expression at John 8:58 is quite different from the one used at Exodus 3:14. Jesus did not use it as a name or a title but as a means of explaining his prehuman existence. Hence, note how some other Bible versions render John 8:58: 1869: “From before Abraham was, I have been.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes. 1935: “I existed before Abraham was born!” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed. 1965: “Before Abraham was born, I was already the one that I am.” Das Neue Testament, by Jörg Zink. 1981: “I was alive before Abraham was born!” The Simple English Bible. 1984: “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Thus, the real thought of the Greek used here is that God’s created “firstborn,” Jesus, had existed long before Abraham was born.—Colossians 1:15; Proverbs 8:22, 23, 30; Revelation 3:14 I have answered now everything right? And of course I cut and paste some things. The answer is there and it's much better than typing it out long hand. My answer would still be the same.
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Post by TheNinthCloud on May 12, 2010 19:45:36 GMT -5
I'm to lazy to look, what's this argument over?
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Post by actionfiguresrule1 on May 12, 2010 20:32:01 GMT -5
Christian for...... some certain reason......
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Post by actionfiguresrule1 on May 12, 2010 20:32:18 GMT -5
Lets just say I have alot of brothers...
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Post by Mr. PerpetuaLynch Motion on May 13, 2010 18:41:16 GMT -5
Yeah too bad you completely missed mine. While I agree not all religions are good for mankind there are religions out there not based on the traditional Christian Bible (see Buddhism and some others) that are definitely acceptable and "good for mankind". Hmm...Haven't Buddist monks gone to war? Have they ever killed anyone? I don't know why it took me so long to get back to this. Zen Buddhists have not. In fact one of the beliefs of a Zen Buddhist is to not harm another living creature... That's why they're vegitarians. That is the sect of Buddhism I'm most interested in.
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Post by nhwawrestling on May 13, 2010 18:52:34 GMT -5
Kinda Buddhist Kinda Catholic
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Post by bane on May 13, 2010 19:42:18 GMT -5
Hmm...Haven't Buddist monks gone to war? Have they ever killed anyone? I don't know why it took me so long to get back to this. Zen Buddhists have not. In fact one of the beliefs of a Zen Buddhist is to not harm another living creature... That's why they're vegitarians. That is the sect of Buddhism I'm most interested in. How many Zen Buddhists are there? Is there some kind of webpage?
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Post by Mr. PerpetuaLynch Motion on May 14, 2010 0:03:40 GMT -5
I don't know why it took me so long to get back to this. Zen Buddhists have not. In fact one of the beliefs of a Zen Buddhist is to not harm another living creature... That's why they're vegitarians. That is the sect of Buddhism I'm most interested in. How many Zen Buddhists are there? Is there some kind of webpage? You do realize that Zen Buddhism has been around for many, many, many years right? What the heck do you mean some kind of webpage? Read about it on Wikipedia or do a google search and it'll yeild countless results. As for your question out of left field as to how many Zen Buddhists there are
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Post by bane on May 14, 2010 1:32:33 GMT -5
How many Zen Buddhists are there? Is there some kind of webpage? You do realize that Zen Buddhism has been around for many, many, many years right? What the heck do you mean some kind of webpage? Read about it on Wikipedia or do a google search and it'll yeild countless results. As for your question out of left field as to how many Zen Buddhists there are So you don't have a webpage so you can introduce other people to it? Hmm... Well I looked up one. The author says the buddhists don't believe in anything.... buddhism.about.com/od/introductiontobuddhism/a/budbeliefs.htmAnd it sounds like to me Zen Buddhists go to war too... www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/buddhism/buddhistethics/war.shtml
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Post by Angel Beast on May 14, 2010 7:31:53 GMT -5
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Post by bane on May 14, 2010 8:16:00 GMT -5
Making a Donation We ask you, as a member of the larger National and International Buddhist community for your financial help. •A meditation cabin costs AUD$15,000. •The BuddhaNet Multimedia Facility will cost AUD$180,000. •The large Meditation Hall will cost AUD$250,000. •The Retreat Centre's Kitchen and Dinning room cost AUD$ 250,000. •Roads and drainage will cost AUD$50,000 There are Several Ways to Donate 1.Use the secure on line credit card facility at: www.buddhanet.net/dana/donation_form.htm2.You can send cheques or money orders made out to ‘Buddha Dharma Education Association’. 3.Australian residents can make a gift that is fully tax deductible under Australian Taxation Law. Make these donations to 'BDEA School Building Trust Fund'. This Trust fund is only for building and site development works. An official receipt for tax purposes will be issued to you. Wow...I just posted this off of your link. Sounds like a little money making operation there. They also charge alot for their books.
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Post by Angel Beast on May 14, 2010 8:44:40 GMT -5
Does it say a donation has to be made no it does not.
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