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Post by The Champ is Here! on May 9, 2010 17:21:17 GMT -5
As far as Revelation goes...What verse are you talking about? Revelation 4:2 - And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it (NLT, emphasis mine) If you read further in the chapter, you find various beings worshipping the one on the throne and the twenty four elders mentioned here refer to him as the Almighty. We can argue all day...fact of the matter is, through my study of the scriptures, as well as much research into multiple interpretations, as well as what tons of church fathers and people much smarter than me have said, and i believe that God is a trinity....He is one, He is 3... You may say i'm wrong, thats fine, but so are the majority of all Christians I've studied the Bible as well and I'm sorry, but you and the majority of Christians are incorrect. You don't find a hint of the trinity in the Old Testament and even John Calvin acknowledged that. The disciples in Acts always baptized in Jesus name and consistently taught that God is indeed one. Then explain why Jesus' last command was to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit? (matthew 28:31) and in Acts they baptized in the name of all 3 as well
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Post by slappy on May 9, 2010 17:28:02 GMT -5
I've considered joining a church, but know nothing about religion. Like I said before, I do believe in a higher power. I just don't know which higher power I believe in. Where do I start? What do you suggest? I desperately need a change in my life. Unitarian Universalist. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism
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Post by bane on May 9, 2010 17:28:49 GMT -5
Revelation 4:2 - And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it (NLT, emphasis mine) If you read further in the chapter, you find various beings worshipping the one on the throne and the twenty four elders mentioned here refer to him as the Almighty. I've studied the Bible as well and I'm sorry, but you and the majority of Christians are incorrect. You don't find a hint of the trinity in the Old Testament and even John Calvin acknowledged that. The disciples in Acts always baptized in Jesus name and consistently taught that God is indeed one. Then explain why Jesus' last command was to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit? (matthew 28:31) and in Acts they baptized in the name of all 3 as well Show me the Acts verse please... Matthew 28:19 reads: “Go, therefore, make disciples of all nations; baptise them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Do those verses say that God, Christ, and the holy spirit constitute a Trinitarian Godhead, that the three are equal in substance, power, and eternity? No, they do not, no more than listing three people, such as Tom, Dick, and Harry, means that they are three in one. This type of reference, admits McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, “proves only that there are the three subjects named, . . . but it does not prove, by itself, that all the three belong necessarily to the divine nature, and possess equal divine honor.”
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StingerSplash
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Post by StingerSplash on May 9, 2010 17:33:50 GMT -5
Revelation 4:2 - And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it (NLT, emphasis mine) If you read further in the chapter, you find various beings worshipping the one on the throne and the twenty four elders mentioned here refer to him as the Almighty. I've studied the Bible as well and I'm sorry, but you and the majority of Christians are incorrect. You don't find a hint of the trinity in the Old Testament and even John Calvin acknowledged that. The disciples in Acts always baptized in Jesus name and consistently taught that God is indeed one. I totally agree with the revelation verse. Someone is the Almighty. It isn't Jesus though. Jesus actually had a beginning. God is eternal. I do not believe in the Trinity either. Therefore we agree. Jesus had an earthly beginning. But he was already with God in the Beginning. He was with God, and he was God. Remember the verse posted a few pages back. He's referred to as The Word. It states that the Word is God. Even though Jesus came into the world as a baby, he was not necessiarly created by God. He was with God, and if he is God, then why would he create himself?
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 9, 2010 17:39:27 GMT -5
Then explain why Jesus' last command was to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit? (matthew 28:31) and in Acts they baptized in the name of all 3 as well What is the name of the Father? What is the name of the Son? What is the name of the Spirit? They all have the same name. Please show me in Acts where they baptized in any name but Jesus? I totally agree with the revelation verse. Someone is the Almighty. It isn't Jesus though. Jesus actually had a beginning. God is eternal. I do not believe in the Trinity either. Therefore we agree. No, we do not agree. I believe that Jesus is the Almighty and He is the One sitting on that throne. I'm off to evening services ironically enough so I won't be able to reply for a few hours.
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StingerSplash
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Post by StingerSplash on May 9, 2010 17:55:15 GMT -5
As far as Baptism goes: At my church (Church of Christ) you first accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Then you're baptised in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.
I wasn't aware there was any other forms of Baptism?
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Post by Yeezy's Mullet: Team X Blades on May 9, 2010 18:01:14 GMT -5
As far as Baptism goes: At my church (Church of Christ) you first accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Then you're baptised in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. I wasn't aware there was any other forms of Baptism? There aren't. At least not Biblically, which if you'e in the Church Of Christ, the Bible is followed with accurate application. I think it's either greek or hebrew where the word Baptize translates into submerse, which if taken correctly should be the only way to baptize someone. Not sprinkling, not splashing, and certainly not jumping up and down like a maniace screaming "THANK YA JEEESSSUUSSS". Question Stinger. Are you a member of THE Church of Christ. Unno, "One true church", No instrumental music, water baptism? That Church Of Christ.
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StingerSplash
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Post by StingerSplash on May 9, 2010 18:09:24 GMT -5
As far as Baptism goes: At my church (Church of Christ) you first accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Then you're baptised in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. I wasn't aware there was any other forms of Baptism? There aren't. At least not Biblically, which if you'e in the Church Of Christ, the Bible is followed with accurate application. I think it's either greek or hebrew where the word Baptize translates into submerse, which if taken correctly should be the only way to baptize someone. Not sprinkling, not splashing, and certainly not jumping up and down like a maniace screaming "THANK YA JEEESSSUUSSS". Question Stinger. Are you a member of THE Church of Christ. Unno, "One true church", No instrumental music, water baptism? That Church Of Christ. No, we have instrumental music. I actually play guitar and sing. in our church's band, and occasionally lead worship. We have a baptistry inside the church...so I guess it's water baptism? I mean we're submerged in water when we're baptised. Not forsure what you mean. We're more of a very evangelical church. Alot of community service stuff (food pantry, blood drives, etc.) Church's name is 'First Church of Christ,' so we try to do things like the Early Church. But it's a very diverse, and a rather contemporary church. Hope I helped?
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Post by juicewinslow on May 9, 2010 18:34:33 GMT -5
Thanks for your words people. I really appreciate it.
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Post by bane on May 9, 2010 18:43:16 GMT -5
I totally agree with the revelation verse. Someone is the Almighty. It isn't Jesus though. Jesus actually had a beginning. God is eternal. I do not believe in the Trinity either. Therefore we agree. Jesus had an earthly beginning. But he was already with God in the Beginning. He was with God, and he was God. Remember the verse posted a few pages back. He's referred to as The Word. It states that the Word is God. Even though Jesus came into the world as a baby, he was not necessiarly created by God. He was with God, and if he is God, then why would he create himself? Before coming to earth Jesus was called the Word of God. This title shows that he served in heaven as the one who spoke for God. He is also called God’s “Firstborn,” as well as his “only-begotten” Son. (John 1:14; 3:16; Hebrews 1:6) This means that he was created before all the other spirit sons of God, and that he is the only one who was directly created by God. The Bible explains that this “firstborn” Son shared with Jehovah in creating all other things. (Colossians 1:15, 16) Thus when God said, “Let us make man in our image,” he was talking to this Son. Yes, the very one who later came to earth and was born from a woman had shared in the creation of all things! He had already lived in heaven with his Father for an unknown number of years!—Genesis 1:26; Proverbs 8:22, 30; John 1:3. And you are still forgetting this verse. John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him. MANY people saw Jesus and yet lived. Therefore according to this verse, Jesus CANNOT be God. He is A god though. He is godlike but certainly is NOT the Almighty God. Notice the capitals.
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StingerSplash
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Post by StingerSplash on May 9, 2010 18:49:49 GMT -5
Jesus had an earthly beginning. But he was already with God in the Beginning. He was with God, and he was God. Remember the verse posted a few pages back. He's referred to as The Word. It states that the Word is God. Even though Jesus came into the world as a baby, he was not necessiarly created by God. He was with God, and if he is God, then why would he create himself? Before coming to earth Jesus was called the Word of God. This title shows that he served in heaven as the one who spoke for God. He is also called God’s “Firstborn,” as well as his “only-begotten” Son. (John 1:14; 3:16; Hebrews 1:6) This means that he was created before all the other spirit sons of God, and that he is the only one who was directly created by God. The Bible explains that this “firstborn” Son shared with Jehovah in creating all other things. (Colossians 1:15, 16) Thus when God said, “Let us make man in our image,” he was talking to this Son. Yes, the very one who later came to earth and was born from a woman had shared in the creation of all things! He had already lived in heaven with his Father for an unknown number of years!—Genesis 1:26; Proverbs 8:22, 30; John 1:3. And you are still forgetting this verse. John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him. MANY people saw Jesus and yet lived. Therefore according to this verse, Jesus CANNOT be God. He is A god though. He is godlike but certainly is NOT the Almighty God. Notice the capitals. We could argue about this for days, and get nowhere. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Let's leave it at that.
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Post by bane on May 9, 2010 19:37:25 GMT -5
Before coming to earth Jesus was called the Word of God. This title shows that he served in heaven as the one who spoke for God. He is also called God’s “Firstborn,” as well as his “only-begotten” Son. (John 1:14; 3:16; Hebrews 1:6) This means that he was created before all the other spirit sons of God, and that he is the only one who was directly created by God. The Bible explains that this “firstborn” Son shared with Jehovah in creating all other things. (Colossians 1:15, 16) Thus when God said, “Let us make man in our image,” he was talking to this Son. Yes, the very one who later came to earth and was born from a woman had shared in the creation of all things! He had already lived in heaven with his Father for an unknown number of years!—Genesis 1:26; Proverbs 8:22, 30; John 1:3. And you are still forgetting this verse. John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him. MANY people saw Jesus and yet lived. Therefore according to this verse, Jesus CANNOT be God. He is A god though. He is godlike but certainly is NOT the Almighty God. Notice the capitals. We could argue about this for days, and get nowhere. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Let's leave it at that. Your answer is what I find at the doors of those to who I preach to sometimes. It's ok. Maybe one day you will want to talk more. It's been nice discussing the bible though. But it's really not about beliefs. Heck I can believe God is a purple dinosaur....It's REALLY what is in the Bible. It's Gods beliefs. If it's not in there, we should not believe it.
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Post by Mr. PerpetuaLynch Motion on May 9, 2010 20:14:16 GMT -5
We could argue about this for days, and get nowhere. You have your beliefs and I have mine. Let's leave it at that. Your answer is what I find at the doors of those to who I preach to sometimes. It's ok. Maybe one day you will want to talk more. It's been nice discussing the bible though. But it's really not about beliefs. Heck I can believe God is a purple dinosaur....It's REALLY what is in the Bible. It's Gods beliefs. If it's not in there, we should not believe it. ... The are you talking about? There are dozens of religions not based on "the" bible... How can you possibly say if it's not in the bible we should not believe in it? That is absolutely assinine.
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Post by bane on May 9, 2010 20:25:01 GMT -5
Your answer is what I find at the doors of those to who I preach to sometimes. It's ok. Maybe one day you will want to talk more. It's been nice discussing the bible though. But it's really not about beliefs. Heck I can believe God is a purple dinosaur....It's REALLY what is in the Bible. It's Gods beliefs. If it's not in there, we should not believe it. ... The are you talking about? There are dozens of religions not based on "the" bible... How can you possibly say if it's not in the bible we should not believe in it? That is absolutely assinine. Well some consider Nambla a religion. Is that ok with you? Or some believe like David Koresh and killing people or even some believe that being satanists and killing animals is wonderful. So sorry you think these things are ok...
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Post by Mr. PerpetuaLynch Motion on May 9, 2010 20:44:08 GMT -5
... The are you talking about? There are dozens of religions not based on "the" bible... How can you possibly say if it's not in the bible we should not believe in it? That is absolutely assinine. Well some consider Nambla a religion. Is that ok with you? Or some believe like David Koresh and killing people or even some believe that being satanists and killing animals is wonderful. So sorry you think these things are ok... ... Yes because I said that didn't I. Oh wait no I didn't. I think that religions such as Buddhism are perfectly acceptable religions. I strongly suggest you get off your high horse and not shove words in my mouth.
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Post by bane on May 9, 2010 20:55:35 GMT -5
Well some consider Nambla a religion. Is that ok with you? Or some believe like David Koresh and killing people or even some believe that being satanists and killing animals is wonderful. So sorry you think these things are ok... ... Yes because I said that didn't I. Oh wait no I didn't. I think that religions such as Buddhism are perfectly acceptable religions. I strongly suggest you get off your high horse and not shove words in my mouth. So you got my point. Good. Not all religions are good for mankind. I am glad we agree.
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Post by Mr. PerpetuaLynch Motion on May 9, 2010 20:56:56 GMT -5
... Yes because I said that didn't I. Oh wait no I didn't. I think that religions such as Buddhism are perfectly acceptable religions. I strongly suggest you get off your high horse and not shove words in my mouth. So you got my point. Good. Not all religions are good for mankind. I am glad we agree. Yeah too bad you completely missed mine. While I agree not all religions are good for mankind there are religions out there not based on the traditional Christian Bible (see Buddhism and some others) that are definitely acceptable and "good for mankind".
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 9, 2010 21:14:46 GMT -5
As far as Baptism goes: At my church (Church of Christ) you first accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Then you're baptised in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. I wasn't aware there was any other forms of Baptism? There aren't. At least not Biblically, which if you'e in the Church Of Christ, the Bible is followed with accurate application. You're incorrect. Biblically, they always baptized in Jesus name and never did they baptize reciting the titles Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All the baptisms done in the Bible happen in the book of Acts. Please show me in the Book of Acts where they baptized anyone reciting the titles Father, Son and Holy Ghost. You don't find that method in the Bible. You do find multiple instances of people being baptized in the name of Jesus or in the name (singular) of the Lord. Acts 2:38 - "Be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ," Acts 4:12 - "For there is no other name under Heaven whereby you must be saved." Acts 8:14 - "They were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" Acts 10:48 - "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord" I could go on, but I don't think I need to. In the book of Acts people were always, always, always baptized in Jesus name. And you are still forgetting this verse. John 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him. MANY people saw Jesus and yet lived. Therefore according to this verse, Jesus CANNOT be God. He is A god though. He is godlike but certainly is NOT the Almighty God. Notice the capitals. And you're denying the fleshly nature of Christ. Jesus has a dual nature of being both God and man. John 14:9 - "He that has seen me has seen the Father." How much more literal can you get? I resemble my dad, but I can't say that if you've seen me, you've seen him. We're completely different people. Jesus could say that if you see him, you see the Father because they were one in the same. (John 10:30). Also, in Revelation 1:8, Jesus refers to himself as the "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end saith the Lord, which is, which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." (Emphasis mine). On top of that, if you look at Acts 9, we read the story of Saul's conversion on the road to Damascus. Now, Saul was a devout Jew and when he was struck down and God spoke to him, he recognized that it was Jehovah speaking to him. He was a devout Jew and would've recognized no other deity. Yet when Saul asked, "Who are you Lord (Jehovah)." The Lord (Jehovah) answered, "I am Jesus who you are persecuting." You can't get much clearer than that.
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Post by bane on May 9, 2010 21:23:51 GMT -5
So you got my point. Good. Not all religions are good for mankind. I am glad we agree. Yeah too bad you completely missed mine. While I agree not all religions are good for mankind there are religions out there not based on the traditional Christian Bible (see Buddhism and some others) that are definitely acceptable and "good for mankind". Hmm...Haven't Buddist monks gone to war? Have they ever killed anyone?
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Post by slappy on May 9, 2010 21:31:56 GMT -5
Yeah too bad you completely missed mine. While I agree not all religions are good for mankind there are religions out there not based on the traditional Christian Bible (see Buddhism and some others) that are definitely acceptable and "good for mankind". Hmm...Haven't Buddist monks gone to war? Have they ever killed anyone? What are you trying to prove? That other religions are just as "bad" as Christianity? Because Christians sure have killed people. I really don't see the point you are trying to make here.
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