Alpha Q Up
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Not gravitas
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Post by Alpha Q Up on Aug 17, 2011 6:48:33 GMT -5
Having a poopty QB doesn't mean you have an unfriendly offense. It's completely option based. Not at all, but I would say the two teams I listed run more then NY. Plus just 1-2 weeks ago NY fans were saying how GOOD their WRs were (including Smith until he left where he instantly became the devil and sucked.) See, I'm guessing talbot is not talking about WRs for the ''least qb friendly'' statement. He's talking about our offensive coordinator, Kevin Gilbride. He has one of the most complex offensive gameplans in the NFL, his run-and-shoot offense is horrendous. If Eli had any other O-Coordinator in the NFL that wasn't as stubborn and idiotic as Kevin Kill-Drive, Eli and Co. (Receivers) wouldn't have so many miscommunications and interceptions. Really complex and over-the-top offense, much isn't even needed. Eli was top 5 in yards passed/td's and completions last year. He get's better every year, and this year I expect a lower interception rate and probably a lower TD/pass yds rate as we will probably be running more. Atleast I hope Eli improves because Eli cashed in a check he has to sign come next year with that comment. And on the Kliq/NBA Lockout argument..just my 0.2 cents. Steve Smith is a douche, done. |
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Dexter Morgan
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Post by Dexter Morgan on Aug 17, 2011 8:27:53 GMT -5
Not at all, but I would say the two teams I listed run more then NY. Plus just 1-2 weeks ago NY fans were saying how GOOD their WRs were (including Smith until he left where he instantly became the devil and sucked.) See, I'm guessing talbot is not talking about WRs for the ''least qb friendly'' statement. He's talking about our offensive coordinator, Kevin Gilbride. He has one of the most complex offensive gameplans in the NFL, his run-and-shoot offense is horrendous. If Eli had any other O-Coordinator in the NFL that wasn't as stubborn and idiotic as Kevin Kill-Drive, Eli and Co. (Receivers) wouldn't have so many miscommunications and interceptions. Really complex and over-the-top offense, much isn't even needed. Eli was top 5 in yards passed/td's and completions last year. He get's better every year, and this year I expect a lower interception rate and probably a lower TD/pass yds rate as we will probably be running more. Atleast I hope Eli improves because Eli cashed in a check he has to sign come next year with that comment. And on the Kliq/NBA Lockout argument..just my 0.2 cents. Steve Smith is a douche, done. Eli is maybe a top 15 QB. Complex schemes shouldn't mean anything to a good QB. Which is why Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, etc look so damn fluid and make everything seem so easy. Last year Manning finished 17th in QB Rating. 8th in completions (8th in attempts and 8th in percentage). The big killer is 1st in INTs. He's only had 1 season with under 10 INTs. That's not an elite QB, that's an okay-good QB. One who can on occasion win a game but on other occasion lose a game. I don't understand New York fans, they have this sense of self-entitlement with their opinions and how players should feel about their teams. It's with every sport too, Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Jets, Giants. They over-hype their team(s)/player(s) then when shown facts they dismiss them cause they da New Yorkers, they ain't nevea been wrong. Nicks is an okay (NOT GREAT) receiver, Smith isn't a horrible person, neither is Shaun Ellis, and Eli is a run of the mil, maybe top 15 QB. |
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Post by sean™ on Aug 17, 2011 8:32:33 GMT -5
I look back to someone on NFL Network's explanation of Peyton vs Brady, as I feel it holds weight here. Brady is a better quarterback because he'd had less reciever-wise talent to work with than the Colts have had.
The same stands true for Eli and the Giants.
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Post by captain master talbot on Aug 17, 2011 9:30:19 GMT -5
See, I'm guessing talbot is not talking about WRs for the ''least qb friendly'' statement. He's talking about our offensive coordinator, Kevin Gilbride. He has one of the most complex offensive gameplans in the NFL, his run-and-shoot offense is horrendous. If Eli had any other O-Coordinator in the NFL that wasn't as stubborn and idiotic as Kevin Kill-Drive, Eli and Co. (Receivers) wouldn't have so many miscommunications and interceptions. Really complex and over-the-top offense, much isn't even needed. Eli was top 5 in yards passed/td's and completions last year. He get's better every year, and this year I expect a lower interception rate and probably a lower TD/pass yds rate as we will probably be running more. Atleast I hope Eli improves because Eli cashed in a check he has to sign come next year with that comment. And on the Kliq/NBA Lockout argument..just my 0.2 cents. Steve Smith is a douche, done. Eli is maybe a top 15 QB. Complex schemes shouldn't mean anything to a good QB. Which is why Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, etc look so damn fluid and make everything seem so easy. Last year Manning finished 17th in QB Rating. 8th in completions (8th in attempts and 8th in percentage). The big killer is 1st in INTs. He's only had 1 season with under 10 INTs. That's not an elite QB, that's an okay-good QB. One who can on occasion win a game but on other occasion lose a game. I don't understand New York fans, they have this sense of self-entitlement with their opinions and how players should feel about their teams. It's with every sport too, Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Jets, Giants. They over-hype their team(s)/player(s) then when shown facts they dismiss them cause they da New Yorkers, they ain't nevea been wrong. Nicks is an okay (NOT GREAT) receiver, Smith isn't a horrible person, neither is Shaun Ellis, and Eli is a run of the mil, maybe top 15 QB. Eli is bottom top 10. You forgot the yards and TDs too, he had 31, nobody wants to talk about that. Brady plays in a dink n dunk offense, almost like a West Coast. Peyton is on his own, I give him all the credit in the world, he deserves it. Rivers plays in an Air Coryell offense, it's not based on reads, it's a passing game based on deep crosses and go routes with big receivers, again, it's very QB friendly. Brees and Payton have their own little thing. I doubt you will because it backs up my point and proves you wrong, but read this article (anyone should to get a better grasp on what Eli has to do with the offense), and then hopefully you'll appreciate it. online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703395204576024021655455958.html |
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Aug 17, 2011 9:37:23 GMT -5
I dont know where I would rank Eli, but only class he is in with Tom Brady is that hes white and plays QB....thats it.
He be crazy!
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Dexter Morgan
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Post by Dexter Morgan on Aug 17, 2011 10:21:32 GMT -5
Eli is maybe a top 15 QB. Complex schemes shouldn't mean anything to a good QB. Which is why Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rivers, etc look so damn fluid and make everything seem so easy. Last year Manning finished 17th in QB Rating. 8th in completions (8th in attempts and 8th in percentage). The big killer is 1st in INTs. He's only had 1 season with under 10 INTs. That's not an elite QB, that's an okay-good QB. One who can on occasion win a game but on other occasion lose a game. I don't understand New York fans, they have this sense of self-entitlement with their opinions and how players should feel about their teams. It's with every sport too, Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Jets, Giants. They over-hype their team(s)/player(s) then when shown facts they dismiss them cause they da New Yorkers, they ain't nevea been wrong. Nicks is an okay (NOT GREAT) receiver, Smith isn't a horrible person, neither is Shaun Ellis, and Eli is a run of the mil, maybe top 15 QB. Eli is bottom top 10. You forgot the yards and TDs too, he had 31, nobody wants to talk about that. Brady plays in a dink n dunk offense, almost like a West Coast. Peyton is on his own, I give him all the credit in the world, he deserves it. Rivers plays in an Air Coryell offense, it's not based on reads, it's a passing game based on deep crosses and go routes with big receivers, again, it's very QB friendly. Brees and Payton have their own little thing. I doubt you will because it backs up my point and proves you wrong, but read this article (anyone should to get a better grasp on what Eli has to do with the offense), and then hopefully you'll appreciate it. online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703395204576024021655455958.htmlHalfway through the article and I'll say this, EVERY WR and QB read the defense and adjust accordingly, there is NO WAY you will tell me that other teams don't do that. So the Giants offense is super complex because WRs and QBs read and adjust to defense, yeah that's what every team does. On top of that you can throw for a crapton of yards and still be mediocre. Eli has never finished above 11th in QB Rating. Add to that I would put Manning Brady Rivers Brees Rodgers Vick Schaub Roethlisberger Ryan Romo Flacco and if Freeman continues to play like he did last year add him to that list all ahead of Eli Manning. You can't blame a system for causing him to throw many INTs. You have to put blame on everything, WRs, HIM, Scheme, etc, etc. It's not all his fault, but he is partly to blame too. |
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Post by user9327 on Aug 17, 2011 13:17:20 GMT -5
And on the Kliq/NBA Lockout argument..just my 0.2 cents. Steve Smith is a douche, done. I don't understand New York fans, they have this sense of self-entitlement with their opinions and how players should feel about their teams. It's with every sport too, Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Jets, Giants. They over-hype their team(s)/player(s) then when shown facts they dismiss them cause they da New Yorkers, they ain't nevea been wrong. You say this, but certainly felt entitled to interject yourself and bash me last night when you had no idea what you were talking about concerning my experiences with NYG and were wrong. Just saying,  this place. |
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Dexter Morgan
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Post by Dexter Morgan on Aug 17, 2011 14:33:32 GMT -5
I don't understand New York fans, they have this sense of self-entitlement with their opinions and how players should feel about their teams. It's with every sport too, Yankees, Mets, Knicks, Jets, Giants. They over-hype their team(s)/player(s) then when shown facts they dismiss them cause they da New Yorkers, they ain't nevea been wrong. You say this, but certainly felt entitled to interject yourself and bash me last night when you had no idea what you were talking about concerning my experiences with NYG and were wrong. Just saying, this place. I never said you were wrong. We were asking for what you saw that made you not like his character. If you are gonna call someone/something out even if it's opinion based then give reasons why because saying "I don't want to discuss it" makes it looks like you're either lying or making it up. Plus I imagine I can go back 8-10 pages and see you talking up Steve Smith, then when you found out he left, he is a horrible person. |
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Post by user9327 on Aug 17, 2011 14:42:57 GMT -5
You say this, but certainly felt entitled to interject yourself and bash me last night when you had no idea what you were talking about concerning my experiences with NYG and were wrong. Just saying, this place. I never said you were wrong. We were asking for what you saw that made you not like his character. If you are gonna call someone/something out even if it's opinion based then give reasons why because saying "I don't want to discuss it" makes it looks like you're either lying or making it up. Plus I imagine I can go back 8-10 pages and see you talking up Steve Smith, then when you found out he left, he is a horrible person. You go back and find me talking up Steve Smith as a good person then. Put your money where your mouth is. Hey, this is what you are giving me a hard time about, making claims without providing more substance. So let's see you do it... |
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Post by sean™ on Aug 17, 2011 14:46:49 GMT -5
Phillip Rivers. |
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Dexter Morgan
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Post by Dexter Morgan on Aug 17, 2011 14:51:42 GMT -5
I never said you were wrong. We were asking for what you saw that made you not like his character. If you are gonna call someone/something out even if it's opinion based then give reasons why because saying "I don't want to discuss it" makes it looks like you're either lying or making it up. Plus I imagine I can go back 8-10 pages and see you talking up Steve Smith, then when you found out he left, he is a horrible person. You go back and find me talking up Steve Smith as a good person then. Put your money where your mouth is. Hey, this is what you are giving me a hard time about, making claims without providing more substance. So let's see you do it... Got you confused with the other Giants fan in here. But the point remains if he had stayed on your team none of you guys would be bitching and moaning, that's FACT. I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong on something. Which I was wrong about you talking him up in this thread but it's like me saying I feel like Julius Peppers is a cocksucker. He has no dignity and is a horrible person. If the only thing I add to that is "I've seen him do stuff I dislike" it brings up a bunch of unanswered questions. We are just curious, did you see him rape Eli's wife, steal teammates money, sell drugs to small children, what? You questioned his character and then didn't go into why. Why even bring up his character if you don't want to explain why you brought it up right? Anyways Cam will start which I like. Cam will start this one, Jimmy game 3, and Cam game 4. I like it as it gives both QBs a chance to work with the first team. |
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Post by twinn on Aug 17, 2011 14:58:25 GMT -5
I feel like Julius Peppers is a cocksucker. He has no dignity and is a horrible person. YOU SHUT YOUR WH ORE MOUTH |
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Dexter Morgan
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Joined on: Jul 8, 2008 15:30:18 GMT -5
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Post by Dexter Morgan on Aug 17, 2011 15:00:45 GMT -5
I feel like Julius Peppers is a cocksucker. He has no dignity and is a horrible person. YOU SHUT YOUR WH ORE MOUTH It was hypothetical, besides you ain't supposed to be mad dude.  |
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Post by user9327 on Aug 17, 2011 15:03:01 GMT -5
You go back and find me talking up Steve Smith as a good person then. Put your money where your mouth is. Hey, this is what you are giving me a hard time about, making claims without providing more substance. So let's see you do it... Got you confused with the other Giants fan in here. But the point remains if he had stayed on your team none of you guys would be bitching and moaning, that's FACT. I'm not afraid to admit I'm wrong on something. Which I was wrong about you talking him up in this thread but it's like me saying I feel like Julius Peppers is a cocksucker. He has no dignity and is a horrible person. If the only thing I add to that is "I've seen him do stuff I dislike" it brings up a bunch of unanswered questions. We are just curious, did you see him rape Eli's wife, steal teammates money, sell drugs to small children, what? You questioned his character and then didn't go into why. Why even bring up his character if you don't want to explain why you brought it up right? Anyways Cam will start which I like. Cam will start this one, Jimmy game 3, and Cam game 4. I like it as it gives both QBs a chance to work with the first team. So in general are you pretty much saying all the crap I took last night was based off of you guys generalizing me with other fans? The point remains that had he stayed I'd not bash Steve Smith? This is fact? You're SO sure of that? But I'm wrong for making an observation? this place. This is what I said that has caused you to tell me I am wrong... I'm telling you man, he always was a bit of a prima donna. He's not a bad guy at all and I had some good experiences with him but there was always something about him that made me feel like he was out for himself more than anything. THIS quote is really what caused all of this? There's something wrong with this situation if that caused Kliquid to come at me that hard and then you to follow and join in after. Because I didn't want to go into a rant bashing Steve Smith? I just wanted to make an observation? Really? I'm not allowed to do that without getting flamed on for 2 pages? this place. |
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Post by captain master talbot on Aug 17, 2011 15:05:47 GMT -5
Lets be honest, Dexter, Duderino, Macaque, whatever you wanna call yourself, you've been biased/hating on the Giants/their fans since 08 when we beat you in Week 16 to win the NFC, so this is nothing new.
You look like an ass for constantly trying to interject yourself and seem smarter than everyone (aka Ralpho 2.0).
Why don't you both drop it?
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Dexter Morgan
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Post by Dexter Morgan on Aug 17, 2011 15:14:13 GMT -5
Lets be honest, Dexter, Duderino, Macaque, whatever you wanna call yourself, you've been biased/hating on the Giants/their fans since 08 when we beat you in Week 16 to win the NFC, so this is nothing new. You look like an ass for constantly trying to interject yourself and seem smarter than everyone (aka Ralpho 2.0). Why don't you both drop it? I don't hate the Giants. In fact I hope them or Washington win the East. I just dislike most of their fans. I don't have a problem with you or Stat City/Lockout, Alex Riley fan is a different story. I'm just stating I'm not sure why you call a guy's character out and then won't give why. I think the Giants as a team is a good team even, but separately I don't find their QB or WRs to be as good as some people do. I don't try and act smarter and if I'm wrong, I'll say it. But guys come in here and build up their own guys like they are gods when it's not the case. Eli could easily be in the top 10 in QBs if he can control his INTs. But if not he top 15, that's hating? Me saying Nicks isn't a top 5 WR right now is hating too apparently. You misconstrue my opinion for hate, when it's not. Just my take on things. You can agree/disagree whatever it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I interject myself because someone states something so I give my opinion on it, that's what forums are for. Welcome to the world of the internet, where people discuss different topics. |
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Post by captain master talbot on Aug 17, 2011 15:17:21 GMT -5
Lets be honest, Dexter, Duderino, Macaque, whatever you wanna call yourself, you've been biased/hating on the Giants/their fans since 08 when we beat you in Week 16 to win the NFC, so this is nothing new. You look like an ass for constantly trying to interject yourself and seem smarter than everyone (aka Ralpho 2.0). Why don't you both drop it? I don't hate the Giants. In fact I hope them or Washington win the East. I just dislike most of their fans. I don't have a problem with you or Stat City/Lockout, Alex Riley fan is a different story. I'm just stating I'm not sure why you call a guy's character out and then won't give why. I think the Giants as a team is a good team even, but separately I don't find their QB or WRs to be as good as some people do. I don't try and act smarter and if I'm wrong, I'll say it. But guys come in here and build up their own guys like they are gods when it's not the case. Eli could easily be in the top 10 in QBs if he can control his INTs. But if not he top 15, that's hating? Me saying Nicks isn't a top 5 WR right now is hating too apparently. You misconstrue my opinion for hate, when it's not. Just my take on things. You can agree/disagree whatever it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I interject myself because someone states something so I give my opinion on it, that's what forums are for. Welcome to the world of the internet, where people discuss different topics. It's the way you interject yourself that probably puts people off dude. |
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Dexter Morgan
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Post by Dexter Morgan on Aug 17, 2011 15:19:59 GMT -5
I don't hate the Giants. In fact I hope them or Washington win the East. I just dislike most of their fans. I don't have a problem with you or Stat City/Lockout, Alex Riley fan is a different story. I'm just stating I'm not sure why you call a guy's character out and then won't give why. I think the Giants as a team is a good team even, but separately I don't find their QB or WRs to be as good as some people do. I don't try and act smarter and if I'm wrong, I'll say it. But guys come in here and build up their own guys like they are gods when it's not the case. Eli could easily be in the top 10 in QBs if he can control his INTs. But if not he top 15, that's hating? Me saying Nicks isn't a top 5 WR right now is hating too apparently. You misconstrue my opinion for hate, when it's not. Just my take on things. You can agree/disagree whatever it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I interject myself because someone states something so I give my opinion on it, that's what forums are for. Welcome to the world of the internet, where people discuss different topics. It's the way you interject yourself that probably puts people off dude. Most likely. But yeah like I said, I don't hate any team (except for my team's division rivals) that's right TRW, Tebow, and BV - Your teams BLOW but yeah, I probably come off as an ass, but I see some stuff that is so out there in terms of opinions I can't help but comment on it. Anyways, John Beck is rumored to be beating out Rex "Seafood Diet" Grossman for the starting job in Washington. Ouch. |
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Post by user9327 on Aug 17, 2011 15:21:34 GMT -5
Lets be honest, Dexter, Duderino, Macaque, whatever you wanna call yourself, you've been biased/hating on the Giants/their fans since 08 when we beat you in Week 16 to win the NFC, so this is nothing new. You look like an ass for constantly trying to interject yourself and seem smarter than everyone (aka Ralpho 2.0). Why don't you both drop it? How this was sensationalized and turned into 2 pages of questioning me is also what I am puzzled about? The misquoting and words that can get put into people's mouths around here is just ridiculous at times. |
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Post by captain master talbot on Aug 17, 2011 15:21:37 GMT -5
Both QBs suck. Washington might have the worst team in the NFL. And Joe Theismann is on crack.
Their training camp was AWFUL.
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