Nash
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Post by Nash on Jan 3, 2012 19:27:02 GMT -5
Yeah the Polian's drafting has been pretty crapty. But you can't rely on someone like Peyton to bail you out with the Bears. So maybe knowing that they would make smarter choices possibly.
Idk, whoever it is needs to draft a receiver in the first round. Now that the anti-WR GM Angelo is out, I can't see why they wouldn't address this need.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 3, 2012 19:30:25 GMT -5
I don't think it's wise to go into a draft and say, "We are going to draft this position in the first round." It leads to a lot of bad decisions made based on perceived available talent.
I do believe in filling needs, but BPA is a strategy that has helped many teams acquire great talent through the draft.
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Nash
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Post by Nash on Jan 3, 2012 19:33:58 GMT -5
Maybe, but for every situation? If the BPA is a RB it would make sense for the Bears to draft him? That would be hard for me, and alot of other people to buy into.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 3, 2012 19:47:39 GMT -5
Maybe, but for every situation? If the BPA is a RB it would make sense for the Bears to draft him? That would be hard for me, and alot of other people to buy into. Like I just said, it's about BPA and your current depth. Running back is probably the most replaceable position on an NFL offense, so I'm personally not an advocate of ever taking one in the first round unless it's an absolutely premier talent.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jan 3, 2012 20:11:07 GMT -5
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Chargers owner is now OFFICIALLY INSANE!
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Post by Greg Weinstein on Jan 3, 2012 21:13:34 GMT -5
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Chargers owner is now OFFICIALLY INSANE! You've kept Sanchez as your quarterback for 3 straight seasons.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jan 3, 2012 21:17:32 GMT -5
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Chargers owner is now OFFICIALLY INSANE! You've kept Sanchez as your quarterback for 3 straight seasons. Yeah. And 2 of the 3 we sat in the AFC Title game. ![::)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/rolleyes.gif) What AFC Title game did the Chargers play in? Not to mention that the Chargers are CHALK full of elite players.
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Post by Greg Weinstein on Jan 3, 2012 21:22:37 GMT -5
You've kept Sanchez as your quarterback for 3 straight seasons. Yeah. And 2 of the 3 we sat in the AFC Title game. ![::)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/rolleyes.gif) What AFC Title game did the Chargers play in? Not to mention that the Chargers are CHALK full of elite players. The Chargers played against the undefeated Patriots on January 20, 2008 at Gillette Stadium in the AFC Title game. Hope that answers your question. Chalk full of elite players? I don't know about "chalk full", and they can't really do much when they're not on the field. Sanchise.
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Post by Greg Weinstein on Jan 3, 2012 21:27:12 GMT -5
I didn't even bother responding to your "2 of 3" title games comment. You didn't get there because of Sanchez, but rather in spite of. You had a top tier defense and a running game. Chargers didn't have much of either.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jan 3, 2012 21:39:57 GMT -5
Yeah. And 2 of the 3 we sat in the AFC Title game. ![::)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/rolleyes.gif) What AFC Title game did the Chargers play in? Not to mention that the Chargers are CHALK full of elite players. The Chargers played against the undefeated Patriots on January 20, 2008 at Gillette Stadium in the AFC Title game. Hope that answers your question. Chalk full of elite players? I don't know about "chalk full", and they can't really do much when they're not on the field. Sanchise. That was basically 4 seasons ago...as it was the 2007 Chargers. And each season since then....they have gotten worse. Its not even debatable how talented the Chargers are. Rivers is Elite. Matthews is right on the outside of elite. Jackson is elite. Gates is elite. Revis IS the only ELITE player on the Jets. QB, RB, WR and TE....skill positions ALL elite. Then you have some excellent players at LB and in the secondary, not to mention a decent enough offensive line. The first year, the defense and running game got us to the title game. But Sanchez played REALLY well last year and didnt win them on his own, but contributed. Hell, against NE Sanchez made plays to be one of the major factors in winning that game.
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Post by Greg Weinstein on Jan 3, 2012 22:08:13 GMT -5
The Chargers played against the undefeated Patriots on January 20, 2008 at Gillette Stadium in the AFC Title game. Hope that answers your question. Chalk full of elite players? I don't know about "chalk full", and they can't really do much when they're not on the field. Sanchise. That was basically 4 seasons ago...as it was the 2007 Chargers. And each season since then....they have gotten worse. Its not even debatable how talented the Chargers are. Rivers is Elite. Matthews is right on the outside of elite. Jackson is elite. Gates is elite. Revis IS the only ELITE player on the Jets. QB, RB, WR and TE....skill positions ALL elite. Then you have some excellent players at LB and in the secondary, not to mention a decent enough offensive line. The first year, the defense and running game got us to the title game. But Sanchez played REALLY well last year and didnt win them on his own, but contributed. Hell, against NE Sanchez made plays to be one of the major factors in winning that game. You're clearly misusing the word "elite". I would like to hear your definition of "elite" as it applies to an NFL player. Ryan Mathews is not "elite". Are you serious? Kliquid are you reading this? Jackson is, but he wasn't for most of this year. I thought he was outplayed by Malcom Floyd who really stepped up for us this season. Antonio Gates? Obviously, but he has been hindered by plantar fasciitis the last season and a half. Can you even name our other TE without looking it up? I'd like to think Rivers is, but I have to see how he bounces back from his worst (statistically) season of his career. Our defense has let us down in a handful of games this year. I don't think you could name very many players on our D. It's not bad, but it's not where it needs to be... yet. Meanwhile, the Jets have two Super Bowl winning receivers, and a quality tight end in Keller. Not to mention a future first-ballot HOF in LT The Jets' defense has been consistently better than the Chargers'. I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jan 3, 2012 22:31:08 GMT -5
That was basically 4 seasons ago...as it was the 2007 Chargers. And each season since then....they have gotten worse. Its not even debatable how talented the Chargers are. Rivers is Elite. Matthews is right on the outside of elite. Jackson is elite. Gates is elite. Revis IS the only ELITE player on the Jets. QB, RB, WR and TE....skill positions ALL elite. Then you have some excellent players at LB and in the secondary, not to mention a decent enough offensive line. The first year, the defense and running game got us to the title game. But Sanchez played REALLY well last year and didnt win them on his own, but contributed. Hell, against NE Sanchez made plays to be one of the major factors in winning that game. You're clearly misusing the word "elite". I would like to hear your definition of "elite" as it applies to an NFL player. Ryan Mathews is not "elite". Are you serious? Kliquid are you reading this? Jackson is, but he wasn't for most of this year. I thought he was outplayed by Malcom Floyd who really stepped up for us this season. Antonio Gates? Obviously, but he has been hindered by plantar fasciitis the last season and a half. Can you even name our other TE without looking it up? I'd like to think Rivers is, but I have to see how he bounces back from his worst (statistically) season of his career. Our defense has let us down in a handful of games this year. I don't think you could name very many players on our D. It's not bad, but it's not where it needs to be... yet. Meanwhile, the Jets have two Super Bowl winning receivers, and a quality tight end in Keller. Not to mention a future first-ballot HOF in LT The Jets' defense has been consistently better than the Chargers'. I don't think anyone would disagree with that. To me Elite is top 5 to maybe 7 in your position in the league. I'm not clearly misusing anything. What is this screaming for Kliq?! Defend your own argument. If Kliq wants to interject...then he will. I said Matthews is just on the outside looking in. AP, Rice, McCoy, MJD, DMac, Gore, Forte. Then the next batch has Fred Jackson, Turner and yes...Ryan Matthews. It could be argued that DMac cuz of injuries falls out of there. But I would rather have a healthy DMac over a healthy Matthews. Jackson is a freaking monster. I like Floyd too...but there is NO QUESTION Jackson is #1 on that depth chart. I cant name your TE backing up Gates, unless its still Randy McMichael. How is that relevant? Who backsup Keller? Who ![](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wfcensored.gif) ing cares is a better question. Fact is when Gates is on the field, which he was in the 2nd half of the season...he is a monster. Rivers had a bad year. But is still an elite QB. Brady, Rodgers, Brees and yeah...Rivers. And I hate the guy. I can name a good handful of players on D for the Chargers just b/c they arent as bad as you want them to be. On the D line you have Vaughn Martin and Tommie Harris. Phillips, Spikes and Diggs at LB. Not sure if Diggs is a stater though. Jammer, Weddle and Cason in secondary. Jets have 2 SB winning WRs? Seriously?! Plax has been in jail for YEARS. Dude CANNOT run routes. Great red zone target...but thats it. Yeah Holmes is a top 15 WR.....maybe close to top 10. That doesnt say much. You have an ELITE WR. I have a very good WR. Jackson would have a ring if he wasnt doomed in SD with a horrid GM and a coach that couldnt motivate a hungry man to a warm meal. Yes, we have a quality TE. Again....top 15 for sure. But lets not get crazy here. Healthy Gates of 2011 > healthy Keller of 2011. And yes...we have LT and future HOF. Guess what? He aint getting there based on his Jets stats. YOU of all people if you are a fan of SD would know that. He has been a great leader, great outlet and contributor. But lets not pretend this is the same LT from SD. His first year with the Jets he ran REALLY well. I think that offensive line really benefited him, thats when they were good. The Jets defense has been TERRIBLE this season. The last 3 games, they surrendered an average of 30+ a game.
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Jamal
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Post by Jamal on Jan 3, 2012 22:34:44 GMT -5
lol @ Matthews being just outside of elite.
Also Gates isn't elite anymore.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jan 3, 2012 22:42:22 GMT -5
lol @ Matthews being just outside of elite. Also Gates isn't elite anymore. Please list the 12-15 RBs that are better than Matthews. ![::)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/rolleyes.gif) How can Gates not be elite anymore? Cuz of injury issues? Well then I expect guys like Peyton Manning, Darren McFadden, etc to be off your list as well. Oh and I neglected to mention Foster as an elite RB as well.
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Post by captain master talbot on Jan 3, 2012 23:13:10 GMT -5
lol @ Matthews being just outside of elite. Also Gates isn't elite anymore. Please list the 12-15 RBs that are better than Matthews. ![::)](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/rolleyes.gif) How can Gates not be elite anymore? Cuz of injury issues? Well then I expect guys like Peyton Manning, Darren McFadden, etc to be off your list as well. Oh and I neglected to mention Foster as an elite RB as well. I'm pretty sure being in the top 15 of a skill position doesn't make you "just outside" elite.
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Post by BV on Jan 3, 2012 23:25:47 GMT -5
Mathews is NO WHERES near elite and neither is Jackson. Rivers took a giant step back from being elite this year. Please just stop. Gates is the only questionable one considering he is hurt alot of the last few years.
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Post by Greg Weinstein on Jan 3, 2012 23:44:13 GMT -5
To me Elite is top 5 to maybe 7 in your position in the league. I said Matthews is just on the outside looking in. AP, Rice, McCoy, MJD, DMac, Gore, Forte. Then the next batch has Fred Jackson, Turner and yes...Ryan Matthews. It could be argued that DMac cuz of injuries falls out of there. But I would rather have a healthy DMac over a healthy Matthews. Okay... so if Mathews is "just outside of elite", that makes him what, 7-9 in the league at RB? Peterson Jackson Rice Jones-Drew McCoy McFadden Foster Turner Forte Charles Bradshaw F. Jackson Benson Gore Johnson Lynch There's 16. Is he better than those? I think most would say no. I would as well. You could even make the argument that the two RBs in Carolina are better than Mathews. Granted, they are good RBs too. I'm not clearly misusing anything. What is this screaming for Kliq?! Defend your own argument. If Kliq wants to interject...then he will. Um, I was actually interested in seeing what someone who actually knows what they're talking about and follows the sport thought of your asinine comment of Mathews being right on the edge of that "elite" status. He has not proven himself enough in his short career that he can be elite. Does he have the potential? Maybe. We'll see. Jackson is a freaking monster. I like Floyd too...but there is NO QUESTION Jackson is #1 on that depth chart. Jackson was too inconsistent this season. He only had about 5 or 6 good games this season, and when he's good he's great, but he disappeared in some pretty big games. He did have over 1,100 yards receiving, and tied a career-high 9 TDs, but most of that was due to having BIG games. 586 yards, 8 TDs in FOUR GAMES. FOUR!! He had SEVEN games where he was held to less than 50 yards receiving. He started every game this season. That is called inconsistency. Malcom Floyd had SIX games of at least 95 yards receiving and was held to less than 50 yards receiving 5 times. He also didn't play in 4 games this season (all during our 6 game losing streak). I cant name your TE backing up Gates, unless its still Randy McMichael. How is that relevant? Who backsup Keller? Who ![](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wfcensored.gif) ing cares is a better question. Fact is when Gates is on the field, which he was in the 2nd half of the season...he is a monster. Like I said, Gates wasn't 100% at any point this season and McMichael saw more playing time. My point? Gates wasn't too effective this season so using him and his elite status in your argument as to why we missed the playoffs is null and void. He had the the least amount of TDs this season of his career besides his rookie season. Second least in receiving yards of his career (again, to his rookie season in 2003). He wasn't 100% Rivers had a bad year. But is still an elite QB. Brady, Rodgers, Brees and yeah...Rivers. And I hate the guy. He did have a bad year. He is borderline elite, and I think next season he should bounce back and put up elite numbers. Maybe him having 6 children had something to do with his head not being in it this year. Yikes. I can name a good handful of players on D for the Chargers just b/c they arent as bad as you want them to be. On the D line you have Vaughn Martin and Tommie Harris. Phillips, Spikes and Diggs at LB. Not sure if Diggs is a stater though. Jammer, Weddle and Cason in secondary. C'mon... San Diego was 16th in the league this year on YPG allowed. Jets were 5th. Jets were also 5th in passing YPG allowed. Chargers were 13th. Jets were 13th in rushing yards allowed, Chargers were 20th. You beat us in every category this season. Yes, we have a quality TE. Again....top 15 for sure. But lets not get crazy here. Healthy Gates of 2011 > healthy Keller of 2011. And yes...we have LT and future HOF. Guess what? He aint getting there based on his Jets stats. YOU of all people if you are a fan of SD would know that. He has been a great leader, great outlet and contributor. But lets not pretend this is the same LT from SD. His first year with the Jets he ran REALLY well. I think that offensive line really benefited him, thats when they were good. Keller is probably a top 10 TE. And again, Gates was not healthy this season. He also missed 3 games. Keller, Holmes, and Burress started all EVERY game this season. I was kidding with the LT comment. Hence the smiley. Obviously he has tailed off. The Jets defense has been TERRIBLE this season. The last 3 games, they surrendered an average of 30+ a game. And it was still better than the Chargers' (see above). Go figure.
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Post by Kliquid on Jan 4, 2012 0:59:48 GMT -5
Very quickly....
Mathews isn't elite. He's probably about the 20th best RB in the NFL right now. He looked good this year, but he isn't "elite" yet. He can barely keep Mike Tolbert off the field at this point.
D'Brickashaw Ferguson is an elite (or at least close to) elite LT. Certainly closer than Ryan Mathews is.
Nick Mangold, when healthy, is an elite center.
If Vincent Jackson goes to another team, he will be exposed as being a one-trick pony... I would definitely rather have him than Santonio Holmes at this point, but neither of them is a top-10 WR. Or even very close (C. Johnson, A. Johnson, G. Jennings, R. White, W. Welker, B. Marshall, R. Wayne, D. Bowe, M. Austin, H. Nicks, S. Smith, M. Colston, L. Fitzgerald, -- I'd even take AJ Green or Julio Jones over either of them).
Gates has shown that he is a shadow of his former self, but it still elite given the lack of talent at TE in the NFL.
Rivers is certainly still elite. If he plays like this again next year, then I drop him out of the top 10. I'm willing to give him a mulligan for a year, though.
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K Dot
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Post by K Dot on Jan 4, 2012 1:22:58 GMT -5
I love how everyone overrates the Chargers every year and so many "experts" pick them to win the super bowl but THEY'RE the ones that make the Chargers seem like the best team when we're really not. I don't think any Charger fan comes forward and says we're winning the Super Bowl and if anyone has, they honestly don't know anything about our team. Our defense is nowhere close to help us win reg. season games never mind the goddamn Super Bowl. Tommie Harris? C'mon man. The best D-line we had I thought was Garay and he was only able to generate 2.5 sacks. Jammer is an old ass that gets penalized or just ![](http://www.wrestlingfigs.com/images/wfcensored.gif) s up during the most crucial parts of the game. TKO is on the decline, although he did have a productive season for his age. Barnes played pretty well too but nothing enough to warrant an elite status. Weddle is our best secondary and he's still not "elite". There's next to none "elite" players on our defense only one CLOSEST would be Weddle with Phillips next. Rivers had the worst statistical season of his career, Gates was hurt for a few games, as was Floyd, Crayton is another old man, VJax would show up for a 3 TD performance and get held to 30 yards the next week (that is NOT elite), our O-Line was so banged up it was disgusting to watch them sometimes not give Rivers any blocking, Mathews and Tolbert is a pretty good combo but nothing like LT/Turner/Sproles or LT/Sproles for that matter. Not to mention Turner had his head up his ass for half the season.
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Post by Tim of thee on Jan 4, 2012 2:06:42 GMT -5
I'm glad we kept both Turner and Smith
I like the consistency here.. I want a healthy offseason and possibly a new defensive coordinator.. greg wasn't getting it done..
I wasn't sure who the Chargers were going to get to replace them both and have more success
it's pretty knee jerk on behalf of the fans of the team, and even I admit that I had some knee jerk reations this year.. it's hard to sit through another disappointing year.. but people forget Turner had pretty successful runs with this team.. but you are as good as your last season.. so now this team has a lot to prove and can not go back to excuses when things get bad.. it's time for them to step up really.. 3 times a charm? I certainly would hope so..
people are too quick to call for somebody's head when all around the league, teams are looking at Smith and Turner to replace their current staffs.. pretty silly.. could you imagine them both ending up somewhere and having success like other former Chargers have had elsewhere? Ugh! I hate thinking about it..
The Chargers' needs, in my opinion, aren't to replace a coach and a gm, it's to find some damn help on the defensive line of the ball and finding some depth on the oline.. the position players are there, but when you give up that many yards and sacks a game, you really aren't doing your team any favors.. it's a miracle that the Chargers won 8 games with their brittle lines..
fans all around here keep bringing up marty, but gosh, why? the dude couldn't win playoff games for the life of him and was a huge reason why they lost against the patriots in the 2006 season playoffs..
I love how Charger fans are like "norv sucks, he can't win.. he has never won anything ad a head coach.." meanwhile he holds the highest winning percentage of any coach the chargers ever had and that includes sid gillman, don coryell, bobby ross, and marty schottenheimer
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